RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 19, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2019 Bit of a random question for any of our signalling engineers or signalmen on here.... The 1970s/1980s built powerboxes like Doncaster, Peter, Crewe etc.. have the signalling panel almost vertical, with signallers stood at the panel to press the infamous perspex switch. These panels were built up of various 'tiles' that contained lights, train describers or the said switch, the question being how did these tiles clip or fit together? A conversation with a couple of friends the other day got us onto this subject, and despite a trawl of the web we couldn't find the answer. Im assuming there must have been some framework behind, that the tiles were fitted too, then I am guessing adjacent tiles clipped to them somehow. I know it gave the ability to (relatively) easily change the panel to accommodate track changes over time. Any help or insight would be welcomed. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 19, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2019 On YouTube, see if you can find a video called Points & Aspects, which I hink may give you a clue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 19, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2019 Not all panels were tiled - some had a fascia over a framework. I beleive the integra-domino panels were as you described, a framework which allowed the tiles to clip in place. Peter the Powerbox ? does he signal Thomas ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 11 hours ago, MarshLane said: Bit of a random question for any of our signalling engineers or signalmen on here.... The 1970s/1980s built powerboxes like Doncaster, Peter, Crewe etc.. have the signalling panel almost vertical, with signallers stood at the panel to press the infamous perspex switch. These panels were built up of various 'tiles' that contained lights, train describers or the said switch, the question being how did these tiles clip or fit together? A conversation with a couple of friends the other day got us onto this subject, and despite a trawl of the web we couldn't find the answer. Im assuming there must have been some framework behind, that the tiles were fitted too, then I am guessing adjacent tiles clipped to them somehow. I know it gave the ability to (relatively) easily change the panel to accommodate track changes over time. Any help or insight would be welcomed. Rich Hi Rich, You might like to have a look at the Swindon Panel Society for some photos, but I'll try and get some tomorrow of the spares bits in our office. Of course, not all panels were 'combined' switch and indication panels, some had separate panels for route setting which signallers would sit at with an indication panel a couple of feet further away. As Dave said, some were Domino panels, some were just plate sheets. Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 19, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2019 Thanks for the replies guys. @Oldddudders I'll try and find that video! @St. Simon Cheers, that would be appreciated if you can. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 19, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Oldddudders said: On YouTube, see if you can find a video called Points & Aspects, which I hink may give you a clue. Just had a look. Very interesting. On those panels was there a standard matrix into which you plugged the individual modules (track/points/describers etc.)? Or were they custom made for each location? I was a bit taken aback by the guy stripping and wrapping wires onto the terminal block by hand. Hardly makes a good joint? The PO stuff I used to inspect had been done using a automatic stripper/wrapper which was much quicker. Edited February 20, 2019 by melmerby 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 9 hours ago, melmerby said: On those panels was there a standard matrix into which you plugged the individual modules (track/points/describers etc.)? Or were they custom made for each location? Hi, It was a bit of both, there was a standard size of tile with the matrix frame behind it, but the actual tiles and the overall size of the panel was different for each panel. Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Love the Mk1's and Cartic4 in the same train. I have a panel as a bucket of bits tucked away somewhere. I can post a few pictures if wanted. Didn't one of the German manufacturers do a domino style panel for HO years ago? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) I remember Lima had something in the uk catalogue c.1983 - control panel made up of small grey squares clipped in according to layout (plain line, point etc) EDIT: From 1984 N catalogue: https://lima-n-scale-catalogs-1980.webnode.cz/#! Edited February 20, 2019 by keefer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 20, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, LNERGE said: Love the Mk1's and Cartic4 in the same train. I have a panel as a bucket of bits tucked away somewhere. I can post a few pictures if wanted. Didn't one of the German manufacturers do a domino style panel for HO years ago? Yes, please. The BTF video is great - but I'd love to know more about how the tiles actually fitted together and were held on the panels. When I've been in signal boxes, there never seems to be screws or anything holding them so assumed it must be clips below? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, MarshLane said: Yes, please. The BTF video is great - but I'd love to know more about how the tiles actually fitted together and were held on the panels. When I've been in signal boxes, there never seems to be screws or anything holding them so assumed it must be clips below? Try 15 mins 30 secs and 17 mins 32 secs for a view of clipping things in. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2019 In the 70s there were in effect just two contractors with the capacity to undertake major BR schemes - Westinghouse and GEC. They virtually took turns to be awarded contracts. Reference to Geographical Circuitry suggests, as do some passing logos, that this was GEC. So Westinghouse may have had detail differences in panel design. At the time GEC were also working on London Bridge, where the major commissioning was Easter 1976. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2019 Most of the BR parts of the film was shot at Carlow St offices and on the Carlisle job. I worked on it in the LMR HQ in 1970. I've spotted several of my old colleagues on there, Frank Hounsom, John Raindle, Geoff Fadden, Bob Davies, Jim Hitchen, Ron Smith to name but a few. The panel was Westinghouse M3 Mosaic. Tile backs came from a standard range with the fronts engraved and painted as required for each individual layout. Later Westinghouse panels were M5 Mosaic aka 'Biscuit Tins'. They had plates with a turned edge like as the nickname suggests an old fashioned biscuit tin. GCE panels had flat plates 12" square or thereabouts. The Glasgow panel looks more like an Integra one made under licence by Henry Williams. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) The individual tiles for a mosaic panel of that vintage clipped individually into the support matrix, the clip action was not strong. In Germany/Switzerland where these designs originated only push button controls were used and this arrangement was fine. BR, of course used the push/pull buttons and the pull action when cancelling a route would pull the tile out, hence the tiles with pull buttons had a screw added to hold the tile in. This can be seen in the video. More recently mosaic panels have been designed so that the individual tiles could be clipped together and needed much less support. We had such panels for signalling and traction power control on DLR for a few years before changing to all VDU systems. Regards Edited February 20, 2019 by Grovenor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Hi, These are the best photos I can get in our antiques corner in the office showing one of the tiles of a Western (I think!) mosaic panel Simon 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 Hi Simon Presumably the receptacle that the tile plugs into had a standard set of contacts and depending on the use of the tile depended which contacts were used by the tile? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 The pictures as threatened... 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 21, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, LNERGE said: The pictures as threatened... Thanks for posting those. I am still not totally clear on how those tiles link together, but its certainly made it a bit clearer! Just like to find some perspex pull to make buttons! Thanks for taking the time. Rich Edited February 21, 2019 by MarshLane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, LNERGE said: The pictures as threatened... Excellent, thanks. As they say a picture saves a thousand words (or something like that!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 27, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 27, 2019 On 21/02/2019 at 21:37, LNERGE said: The pictures as threatened... Any chance you could do a close up of the Perspex buttons on one of those tiles please? These are illuminated pull-to-make buttons aren’t they? Trying to find something similar for a mates control panel ... and struggling at the moment. Also on a turnout tile, such as 441, am incorrect in assuming that the lights only illuminate on the set route, white to show what’s been set and red to show occupation? The lights on that particular tile don’t illuminate on both lines do they? Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted February 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 27, 2019 Does this video help, albeit with a different style of switch? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 27, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 27, 2019 Thanks Adrian, Yes that confirms what I thought. Thanks Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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