Mk3 coach conversions

[jamessolomon]

Been researching this for a while but what other non standard conversions have been done to Mk3's like 96374 the gen set for the canned nightstar service I have seen pics of excluding Network rails flying banana. Iv not come across many non standard conversions to these coaches outside of Network rail using them in modified forms such as the pantograph on the roof etc

[uax6]

Royal train perhaps?

 

Andy G

[nightstar.train]

Very few, partly due to the fact that they’re haven’t been any spare (except for sleepers) until recently. And due to their design and construction you can go and chop them about as much as Mk1s. You can only really add and remove windows within the existing arrangement. That all said there are a few conversions, although most of the work is internal:

 

Belmond Grand Hibernian - Irish Mk3s converted to a luxury land cruise train. Includes luxury sleepers, diners and observation car. The Observation car has floor to ceiling windows at one end. 

Belmond Royal Scotsman - 2 Mk3 sleepers converted as staff car and staff car/disabled luxury sleeper

DB Shenker management train - Sleeper, RFM, FO and DVT fitted out for senior management to tour the network. 

[jamessolomon]

Are the Stobart ones different in any way

[seraphim]

Arguably the biggest conversions have been the various loco-hauled MkIIIs which became HST trailers for Grand Central. The prototype HST trailers were the donors for most of the NMT coaches; they were markedly different from production trailers and a bit of a pain in the neck. It also went the other way - some HST caterers became loco hauled caterers (102xx cars). One UK HST coach (40513??) became a Snack Car for Irish Rail and nearly bankrupted the company doing the conversion.

 

 

[dvdlcs]

Thinking back to BR days, the Mk3s were the latest and greatest (the Mk4s being a smaller and dedicated fleet), so weren't really available for conversions and modifications.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Royal Train Mk3s came from various sources, I don't recall exactly what though.

 

HST kitchen cars (TRUK, TRFK, 405nn) to loco hauled restaurant cars (RFM).

 

HST restaurant / buffet cars being converted to different types of HST restaurant / buffet cars. Most of the 40Nnn number ranges were used for different types...

 

The original HST (Cl 252) trailers became various other things, including production HST trailers and a couple of test coaches for the RTC.

 

Loco hauled FOs to loco hauled restaurant / buffet cars, RFMs.

 

Loco hauled restaurant / buffet cars (RFB) to loco hauled restaurant / buffet cars (RFM).

 

The 6 FOs (11005-11010, 11022) used by ScotRail on the Edinburgh-Glasgow push-pulls became COs (11905-11910, 11922) at some point with half first and half second class seats and a partition in the middle of the coach.

 

I suspect most of these, the RTC and Royal conversions aside, retained the overall external look and feel.

 

Still surprised by the number of Mk3 sleepers built - although a few were cancelled, hence the gap in number range between the two types - and seemingly not possible / practical to convert the surplus examples of these to other types of stock.

[keefer]

The ones i can think of were mainly the catering vehicles. In order to test the modular catering process, there was initially one each of RFM and RSM converted. 

According to https://forum.british-trainz.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=409 , they were both RSM, numbered 10200 & 10201 and were converted from HST TRFKs.

Photo of RSM on Robert Carroll's Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/2490038975/in/album-72157603653607671/

The mods to these were generally just to the kitchen/buffet area.

There was also the HST TLUK 'Executive Saloon' 40513, photo on John Turner's Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/3867405782

The main difference with this was also internal, with the seating area being changed to a 'board room' dining saloon.

The last i can think of was an HST 'Trailer Conductor Standard Disabled'. This was numbered 45084 and was converted from TGS 44084 (details from  https://www.railexpress.co.uk/modelling-a-unique-mk-3/ and  https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/intercity-voyager.61237/#post-1005396 )

As has been stated, modifying mk3s is more problematic as the integral bodyshell forms part of the load bearing structure - it's easy enough to plate windows over, but much more difficult to start cutting out extra doors/windows without compromising the integrity of the vehicle. Any drastic modifications would require extra strengthening somewhere.

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by keefer
To add link & info

[adb968008]

Only a repaint, but 40516 carried Network South East livery, for about a week.

[nightstar.train]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Only a repaint, but 40516 carried Network South East livery, for about a week.

 

Pics or it didn’t happen ;-)

 

That’s an HST buffet by the number. Very odd thing to repaint into NSE. Unless they were thinking of sending some HSTs to NSE. 

[Hilux5972]

I believe the majority of the Royal Train coaches were converted in 1977 from the Prototype HST rake. 2922 & 2923, the Prince of Wales’ sleeping car and saloon car were both built specifically for the Royal Train though. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Hilux5972

[darrel]

GNER planned to convert some sleepers to HST trailers but scrapped the plan as it was too difficult for the reasons given above cutting out large holes in the bodyside for windows would have weakened the bodyshell

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

 

Pics or it didn’t happen ;-)

 

That’s an HST buffet by the number. Very odd thing to repaint into NSE. Unless they were thinking of sending some HSTs to NSE. 

Oh ye of little faith...

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=11277.60

 

time for contrition.

 

( thats not my image fyi)

Edited February 23, 2019 by adb968008

[nightstar.train]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Oh ye of little faith...

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=11277.60

 

time for contrition.

 

( thats not my image fyi)

 

Awesome. It looks really good. Amazing that they did all that just for a livery mock up, but then they didn’t have photoshop of course.  

[m0rris]

 

3 minutes ago, nightstar.train said:

 

Awesome. It looks really good. Amazing that they did all that just for a livery mock up, but then they didn’t have photoshop of course.  

They did both sides as well!

[Satan's Goldfish]

Were the MK3 BFOs for the Pullman sets built that way or were they converted from FOs?

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

 

Awesome. It looks really good. Amazing that they did all that just for a livery mock up, but then they didn’t have photoshop of course.  

Whilst options for this coach are limited, I wonder how far the 33/73 went, I doubt they made it to and From Derby.

 

[Robert Shrives]

1 hour ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

Were the MK3 BFOs for the Pullman sets built that way or were they converted from FOs?

 

Hi last  Mk3b coaches built for the job, and very nice they were too!

Conversion game -the 5 loco hauled coaches that became TCC 45001 - 5 in HST fleet for XC , also out of the five sets only 2 are HST trailer originals , rest are LH conversions, all 5 got the TCC vehicle and due to its suspension type banned from third rail electrical lines! 

Robert   

[Natalie]

3 hours ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

Were the MK3 BFOs for the Pullman sets built that way or were they converted from FOs?

 

The BFOs were originally part of an order for FOs. A need was identified for some 125mph rated brake vehicles to enable the electric HST (classified at the time by the RSL as class 90) and 89 to be tested at that speed to allow comparison of motive power.

 

To provide the three vehicles required the FO order was changed to build 3 of the FOs as brake vehicles. The initial costing to Derby was based on an HST TGS. BFOs were not built for the Manchester Pullman.

 

By the time the BFOs appeared the electric HST project had been cancelled (thus releasing the class 90 classification) so they were used with the 89 with two vehicles allocated to the Glasgow portion of the Clansman. Use with the Pullman sets came a few years later after the 89 tests had finished.

 

Natalie

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Natalie

[seraphim]

As we wander into reminiscence mode, the 3 BFO 17173-5 saved the West Coast when parts started to fall off the MkIII DVTs in the early days of push-pull operation. The railway was scoured for brake vehicles, leaving the BFOs as the only half decent 110 mph capable brakes. They had a peculiar hydraulic parking brake, each different from the others. A maintenance exam on a BFO would guarantee a visit to the depot by the local Pirtek van to fix some bespoke hose or another. 

[Rhydgaled]

A whole load of conversions which haven't been mentioned here are the various vehicles which have had wheelchair-accessible toilets fitted, many of which have had changes to their window layout as a result (although some appear to just have half a window blanked off on the inside, the full window frame still being visible externally on those examples).

 

I read somewhere (probably this forum, but I can't find the right topic now if so) that on the Western Region / (First) Great Western (Trains) IC125 sets the TS(D) was at first added in the coach E position (between the buffet car (coach F) and the rest of the standard class accomodation) but later moved nearer the TGS and became coach C (why?).

 

I was wondering when the first of these wheelchair-accessible conversions happened (and whether the Lima and Hornby coach C / coach E models of a TS in GWT and Swallow liveries are correct or should have been TSD) - photo of GWT set (power car and first six coaches in shot) on Flickr appears to show the half blanked off window (inside only) on the coach next to the buffet car but it is rather far away.

[nightstar.train]

There have been a few interesting conversions done in 2018 for the GWR Night Riviera sleeper train.

 

The BFOs have been rebuilt as BSOs, so a new interior, and also had one of the windows removed at the brake end.

 

 

The Mk3 TSOs have been rebuilt at one end to provide a disabled toilet. 

 

 

 

The RFMs has been massively rebuilt to provide a lounge car for the sleeper passengers and a small buffet counter for the seated passengers. They've lost the distinctive half height buffet windows. 

 

 

And three of the sleepers have had a disabled toilet added one end and the first compartment made accessible, leading to the plating over of a couple of windows. 

 

 

[nightstar.train]

Another extremely interesting conversion is of former HST Mk3 Trailer Composite 46014, which is now a luxurious guest sleeper car named "Moidart" for the LSL Chairman's Train. I would dearly love to have a trip in that!

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by nightstar.train

[Rhydgaled]

6 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

The BFOs have been rebuilt as BSOs, so a new interior, and also had one of the windows removed at the brake end.

 

 

So, they're the same on both sides now then (they always looked like that on one side I think, or is there a change I'm missing)?

[nightstar.train]

13 minutes ago, Rhydgaled said:

 

So, they're the same on both sides now then (they always looked like that on one side I think, or is there a change I'm missing)?

Yes they’re now the same both sides. Previously as BFOs there was another large window between the guards door and the first window on the side pictured above.