Severn Valley diesels in BR days

[TomJ]

A recent visit to the superb SVR has got me researching the history of this line, and got me pondering!

 

i know that the line was transferred from WR to LMR in 1963, and that passenger services ended in 1963 - with colliery freight continuing till 1969.  I’m wondering in those last days which diesel locos could be seen, especially on the coal trains? Did any WR hydraulics appear prior to the transfer? And post 1963 was it all diesel or did any LMR steam (perhaps ex-LMS) pull the coal trains?

 

Who knows where this will lead but I took an awful lot of photos and those stations are awfully modellable......

 

thanks

[tanatvalley]

No diesel locomotives appeared at the Shrewsbury end of the line unless you count when the line was truncated and 08s worked from Coton Hill into the Abbey Foregate oil depot.

[The Johnster]

I believe the LMR started operations to Arley colliery with Stanier 8Fs, and would imagine 25s or 20s would be the diesel replacement.  AFAIK the WR used only steam for freight work here and the hydraulics never put in an appearance, but I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

 

Passenger services to Bewdley 1963-9 were the ex WR 116s mostly.  I doubt diesel locomotive hauled passenger traffic, hydraulic or electric, was ever a feature and passenger traffic terminated at Bewdley after 1963.

[Steamport Southport]

Don't forget the passenger services were mainly ran by DRCs at one point. Put it a bit earlier and you've got interesting trains.

 

A few photos here.

 

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/archive/search.htm?subtype=1&company=GWR

 

 

Jason

[Phil Bullock]

44 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I believe the LMR started operations to Arley colliery with Stanier 8Fs, and would imagine 25s or 20s would be the diesel replacement.  AFAIK the WR used only steam for freight work here and the hydraulics never put in an appearance, but I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

 

Passenger services to Bewdley 1963-9 were the ex WR 116s mostly.  I doubt diesel locomotive hauled passenger traffic, hydraulic or electric, was ever a feature and passenger traffic terminated at Bewdley after 1963.

 

Agreed! Diesel power arrived late in the WR Worcester district but when Kidderminster shed closed in 1964 it was under LMR not WR control - so responsibility for motive power passed to Stourbridge. WR power there was replaced by 8Fs so it was them that saw out the end of steam to Alveley - no colliery at Arley! 

 

And yes 25s and 20s from Bescot were the diesel replacement - there was usually a 25 and an 08 outstationed at Kidderminster. Hydraulics did pass on the OWW main line as evidenced by a contratemps at Hartlebury in 1967 between D8138 and D7038, and I seem to remember a press furore around the use of the 25 after all traffic had ceased to continue to deliver wages to railwaymen at Alveley.....

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TomJ]

Thanks guys. Really helpful and interesting info. So it seems that under WR times it was steam locos for the freight till the LMR transfer. There does seem to have been a good mix of locos seen on the line, and the 8F is an excuse for something a bit larger. 

 

Just out of interest (and reaching for rule 1!) when did diesels start to arrive in the West Midlands, specifically the WR bits, and which ones? Might a hydraulic or two have been seen in that general area around 62/63??????

[Blandford1969]

2 hours ago, tanatvalley said:

No diesel locomotives appeared at the Shrewsbury end of the line unless you count when the line was truncated and 08s worked from Coton Hill into the Abbey Foregate oil depot.

Ah remember that initially the line survived from Shrewsbury to Buildwas for the building of the increased power station and it was only after that was finished that section was taken out of use.

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, TomJ said:

Thanks guys. Really helpful and interesting info. So it seems that under WR times it was steam locos for the freight till the LMR transfer. There does seem to have been a good mix of locos seen on the line, and the 8F is an excuse for something a bit larger. 

 

Just out of interest (and reaching for rule 1!) when did diesels start to arrive in the West Midlands, specifically the WR bits, and which ones? Might a hydraulic or two have been seen in that general area around 62/63??????

 

First hydraulic in the West Midlands as far as I know was D1000 herself - was based at Wolverhampton Stafford Road for crew training - they were used on the Padd - Birkenhead trains via Wolverhampton - and she ran down the OWW as far as Stourbridge on training turns.

 

Here she is at Blowers Green in 1962 courtesy of Prof2941 on Flickr - what a fantastic photo!

 

 

Worcester's first main line diesel was a Class 33! Hymeks arrived for the London turns in September 1963 but given the pressure on traction elsewhere on the region with hydraulic teething problems they didnt stay too long and probably didnt stray much from the Worcester-Hereford turns. When steam finished they became the maids of all work at Worcester - and certainly appeared on 6M20 vans to Brum via Kidder in the late 60s.  Also on through turns from  South Wales such as the Cardiff - Soho Pool tanks which also ran via Kidder. The Warships also appeared on 6M20 when they arrived in late 67/early 68 and some were allocated to Bescot for a while.

 

So generally a bit later than your time frame - other than D1000

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

[The Johnster]

Yes, Aveley not Arley colliery; another senior moment to add to my already impressive list.  

 

As as well as D1000 and later Westerns at Stafford Road, Warships were fairly common common in the early 60s on the North to West main line, mostly Bath Road locos working through to Shrewsbury via the Severn Tunnel; depends a bit on your definition of what constitutes the West Midlands but mine includes this route! By the time steam had been eliminated on the main line WR passenger work (except for the Herefords), Brush Type 4s were becoming common on the region.   The early 60s were a time of very rapid change. 

 

Not sure what WR steam worked Aveley Colliery, but I’ve seen a photo of a 5101 on a pick goods at Bridgnorth, shunting what is now the engine shed but was the goods yard in pre-preservation days.  The Severn Valley line was well laid out for a branch; the original promoters hoped for fast through traffic and the line speed is 70mph. 

[Phil Bullock]

6 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Yes, Aveley not Arley colliery; another senior moment to add to my already impressive list.  

 

As as well as D1000 and later Westerns at Stafford Road, Warships were fairly common common in the early 60s on the North to West main line, mostly Bath Road locos working through to Shrewsbury via the Severn Tunnel; depends a bit on your definition of what constitutes the West Midlands but mine includes this route! By the time steam had been eliminated on the main line WR passenger work (except for the Herefords), Brush Type 4s were becoming common on the region.   The early 60s were a time of very rapid change. 

 

Not sure what WR steam worked Aveley Colliery, but I’ve seen a photo of a 5101 on a pick goods at Bridgnorth, shunting what is now the engine shed but was the goods yard in pre-preservation days.  The Severn Valley line was well laid out for a branch; the original promoters hoped for fast through traffic and the line speed is 70mph. 

 

Yes I guess Hereford and Shrewsbury are West Midlands - if you dont include them in that region then where do they sit? Oh hang on - in BR Areas Hereford was in S.Wales for a while and Worcester was in Bristol - which is deffo West Country! Think W Midlands works better....

 

22xx, 43xx and 51xx were the prime candidates for goods traffic including Alveley Colliery on the SVR in BR(WR) days

 

For anyone wanting an enjoyable read on traffic in this area and these times Tony Barfield's two books are recommended reading

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/When-There-Was-Steam-Memories-of-a-Western-Region-Fireman-by-Tony-Barfield-Pap/202602260623?epid=86112344&hash=item2f2c09288f:g:7FEAAOSwUqVb4DLg:rk:12:pf:0

 

Panniers and Praries was the other one

 

Cheers

 

Phil

Edited February 21, 2019 by Phil Bullock
Additional info

[Covkid]

Although diesel locos worked in and out of Stourbridge and Bescot, it was not until 1965 when a "home fleet" was established at Bescot shed. A handful of EE type 1s displaced from London moved to the West Midlands. IIRC D8035 D8038 and D8043 were three of them and this design out stabled at Stourbridge shed replacing the pannier tanks on a one for one basis. The trips to Halesowen, Withypool and Stourbridge Town later encompassed Kidderminster and the Alveley. The brand new batch D8134-D8141 started work from Bescot from 1966 which is why D8138 had the prang at Hartlebury as mentioned by Phil.

 

At that time the EE type 1s worked singly whilst bizarrely the Sulzer type 2s often operated in pairs particularly on the old Midland metals. It was in the late 1960s that the London Midland region restructured it's power allocations when type 1s were married nose to nose and the Sulzer twos took over the trip workings.

[Phil Bullock]

D8035 to D8039 at D02 IIRC - confirmed by BR Locoadatabase and as you say D8040 - 43 too - hadnt twigged those! Stourbridge was still worth a visit in 67/68 until Bescot took over as the yard for the western side of Brum - a good few locos stabled in sidings opposite the station.

 

Those 20s sometimes appeared at Worcester with a coal train in the late 60s.... and saw D8138 at BNS on my first spotting trip to BNS 4th Sept 1967 on a breakdown train.

 

Happy days!

 

Phil

 

 

[The Johnster]

I remember seeing EE Type 1s working nose to nose in pairs on a visit to my big sister in Selby in '66 (the D83xx series were still being delivered at that time), so perhaps the North Eastern were in on the game before the LMR.  But once the pairings had been introduced it seemed very rare to find one working singly wherever you were.  

[Phil Bullock]

A pair of 20s was in effect a type 4 but with greater tractive effort - 8 motors instead of 6, and thats how Toton used its extensive allocation.

 

York - Foss Island to Dringhouses - trips were a pretty safe bet for a single loco early to mid 70s. The D02 allocation migrated to Toton in the early 70s but were also likely to be seen working singly in the West Midlands whilst shedded there - in fact I cant recall seeing them paired up. They were used singly on Bescot based trippers well in to the 80s - when shedded at Toton. See http://bescotplus.co.uk/class20

 

Phil

[EddieK]

I have seen images of Class 122 single car DMUs on the SVR line. One of these includes W55006 that visited a DMU gala there from its home at Ecclesbourne Valley, and its former use there was mentioned.

 

[Covkid]

23 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

D8035 to D8039 at D02 IIRC - confirmed by BR Locoadatabase and as you say D8040 - 43 too - hadnt twigged those! Stourbridge was still worth a visit in 67/68 until Bescot took over as the yard for the western side of Brum - a good few locos stabled in sidings opposite the station.

 

 

Phi

 

 

 

There are a couple images around of Stourbridge shed (roundhouse) containing EE type 1s, Sulzer type 2s and diesel shunting engines. Fascinating 

[The Johnster]

45 minutes ago, EddieK said:

I have seen images of Class 122 single car DMUs on the SVR line. One of these includes W55006 that visited a DMU gala there from its home at Ecclesbourne Valley, and its former use there was mentioned.

 

I believe 122 'bubble cars' were used on the Much Wenlock line, which crossed the SV at Buildwas just north of the power station.

[TomJ]

Thanks everyone. Loads of good information. Of course when one Googles ‘Severn Valley locos’ it brings up mostly preservation era photos. 

Having visited and seen loads of photos there one thing that really appeals is the variety of locos. 

So far I’ve come up with :

Steam

14xx autotank

panniers

GWR large and small praries

43xx mogul

22xx 2-6-0

8F 2-8-0

Standard 2, 3 and 4 tanks

 

Diesel

GWR railcars

BR DMUs

class 20 and 25

 

A good variety (and mostly available in N - my scale). Have I missed any off?

[Phil Bullock]

Not sure about standard 2 tanks - 84xxx - they tended to be a bit specialist. Is there a photo somewhere?

 

Manors were the only GW 4-6-0 allowed based on route availability but a Grange made it to Bridgnorth from Worcester -   6877 Llanfair Grange - on at least one occasion.

 

Phil

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Phil Bullock

[Phil Bullock]

17 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

There are a couple images around of Stourbridge shed (roundhouse) containing EE type 1s, Sulzer type 2s and diesel shunting engines. Fascinating 

 

Havent seen those - would be fascinating as you say. By the time I got there late 67/68 locos were stabled by the station, including 25s and 20s but also 40s - D209 and D236 come to mind - and 47s. A class 11 from Bescot also lurked occasionally - 12112 was sighted - but my best cop there by far was D4.

 

As late as 1966 Stourbridge still had pannier tanks, this is 8718 which was a previous Kidder engine and Severn Valley stalwart - when she was the last small cab 57xx still in traffic.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/71592768@N08/7625716870/in/photolist-2baJPQs-ah2Fq7-YLwgr1-S26HLY-dgXxXr-8Rebsr-2bm7Riq-UhnotU-VYfc7y-RuVtVC-YVn9bA-S3mCsS-pimL43-SBeQR3-GwbSgS-Ca9npP-HM6NpD-DVu2Bm-Lir3jq-R4JTjs-oeWjqo-ws1Jgj-cBRMX5/

 

Phil

Edited February 23, 2019 by Phil Bullock

[TomJ]

Thanks again. Were Manor’s seen on the line in BR days?

[Phil Bullock]

Cant immediately find evidence but one on loan from Worcester for a bank holiday excursion to Barry Via Wofferton or on an RAF train to Bridgnorth are probably the most likely candidates...

 

Phil

[The Johnster]

12 hours ago, TomJ said:

Thanks everyone. Loads of good information. Of course when one Googles ‘Severn Valley locos’ it brings up mostly preservation era photos. 

Having visited and seen loads of photos there one thing that really appeals is the variety of locos. 

So far I’ve come up with :

Steam

14xx autotank

panniers

GWR large and small praries

43xx mogul

22xx 2-6-0

8F 2-8-0

Standard 2, 3 and 4 tanks

 

Diesel

GWR railcars

BR DMUs

class 20 and 25

 

A good variety (and mostly available in N - my scale). Have I missed any off?

A word of caution; 'panniers' in this case means 57xx/8750s and the possible odd 94xx.  54/64/74xx and 16xx would not have appeared, and neither would 15xx.  Similarly with the prairies, all the classes of small prairie featured, with 44xx used on the Much Wenlock branch, but large prairies would have been restricted to the 5101 series; no 61xx, Collett 31xx, 3150, or 81xx.  

 

Also, I am unsure of 14xx or any auto working; autos and railcars certainly worked into Bewdley off the Wyre Forest branch from Wooferton, though!

 

Not sure about Standard 2 or 4 tanks at least in WR days; AFAIK none were allocated to the WR, though Standard 3 (82xxx) are a possibility, as are Ivatt 2MT tanks, the forerunners of the 84xxx Standard Class 2.  Similarly, I would not discount Ivatt 2MT moguls.  We are thinking in terms of Kidderminster allocated engines, but Shrewsbury would have provided motive power from the northern end of the route.  Wellington locos crossed the route at Buildwas and worked into the power station.

[Covkid]

The photo I am thinking of is a little like this one from the Amblecote history society website

http://www.amblecotehistorysociety.org.uk/Contents/Subjects/Railway/Easthope Shed/Shed.htm

In this image there are Brush type 4s and EE type 4s as well as a 350hp "jocko" on the turntable.

 

I entered this thread mentioning EE type 1s being allocated to rthe Weast Midlands in 1965. Although EE type 4s had been a part of the West Midlands since the early 1960s on passenger work it was not really until 1966 than Bescot and Stourbridge crews started working on them, but for the brief period from 1966 to around 1969 they did an awful lot of work in the West Midlands right from humble coal trains through general freight, banking, parcels, milk right up to express passenger work. They were usurped from the latter by the Brush type 4s, which then took over much other freight work.

 

Recommend a look at the weblink, and whilst this doesn't directly help the OP it must be remembered that Stourbridge supplied the power for Severn Valley freight trippers when Kidderminster closed.  I guess that some block trains of sugar beet and coal into the British Sugar plant at Foley Park might have been through diesels, as they were for the British Sugar plant at Allscott between Wellington and Shrewsbury 

 

[Phil Bullock]

On 23/02/2019 at 21:19, The Johnster said:

A word of caution; 'panniers' in this case means 57xx/8750s and the possible odd 94xx.  54/64/74xx and 16xx would not have appeared, and neither would 15xx.  Similarly with the prairies, all the classes of small prairie featured, with 44xx used on the Much Wenlock branch, but large prairies would have been restricted to the 5101 series; no 61xx, Collett 31xx, 3150, or 81xx.  

 

Also, I am unsure of 14xx or any auto working; autos and railcars certainly worked into Bewdley off the Wyre Forest branch from Wooferton, though!

 

Not sure about Standard 2 or 4 tanks at least in WR days; AFAIK none were allocated to the WR, though Standard 3 (82xxx) are a possibility, as are Ivatt 2MT tanks, the forerunners of the 84xxx Standard Class 2.  Similarly, I would not discount Ivatt 2MT moguls.  We are thinking in terms of Kidderminster allocated engines, but Shrewsbury would have provided motive power from the northern end of the route.  Wellington locos crossed the route at Buildwas and worked into the power station.

 

Heres Kidderminster's allocation

 

http://brdatabase.info/sites.php?page=depots&subpage=locos&id=283

 

Staple of 57xx/43xx/51xx/45xx/22xx as already discussed but note:
 

66xx - For Alveley trains one suspects

 

14xx/64xx - Largely for Autos to Wooferton - did they work up to Bridgnorth?

 

21xx/16xx - For the Gadget - ammo traffic to Ditton Priors via Cleobury Mortimer

 

61xx - used turn and turn about with 51xx

 

No 81xx on that list but Tony Barfield quotes 8101 as delivered directly "new" from Swindon to Kidderminster - and the database has no allocations for that loco up to its withdrawal in 1961....

 

And Standard 4mt tanks were plentiful on the WR once cascaded from LTSR in 1962 see https://www.svrwiki.com/BR_Riddles_4MT_80079 for links to photos of SVR workings and also https://www.svrwiki.com/The_Severn_Valley_Railway_under_GWR/BR_ownership

 

Was not aware of Grange 6832 and Stanier 2-6-2t 40082 !

 

Fascinating....and a few there to add to the OP's list

 

These photos are also worth a look

 

https://www.svrwiki.com/Sellick_Collection

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Phil Bullock