RMweb Premium 03060 Posted February 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2019 During the last 18 months or so I have become aware and interested in the now defunct East & West Yorkshire Union Railway and associated lines running between Stourton, Leeds and Lofthouse Junction near Wakefield. I have gathered some information relating to the line including the D.L. Franks book by Plateway but am surprised that I can't find any related threads on this source, so I've started one. My opening questions relate to motive power seen on the line. I have seen photos of the main suspects seen at work ie J52, J94, J84, J85, N19 and the industrial locos mentioned in Mr. Franks' book aswell as excursion visitors such as J6's and was it Ivatt 2-6-2T's or a 2-6-4T to Rothwell station but have also read that J67's and J69's worked on the line between 1935 and 1944 (RCTS part 8A) but have seen no photographic evidence of this. A photograph of 02 2-8-0 63973 reversing onto Stourton shed in Bellcodes' Railway Memories No22 poses the authors speculative question did it arrive via the E&WYUR which begs the question ....would this have been either likely or possible ? Paul Lunn also offers into the mix as 'legitimate possibles' J50's, J39's, L1's, 3F 0-6-0's, LMS 4-4-0's, Ivatt 2-6-0's and BR Standard 2-6-4T's in his article Model Rail's bookazine Ideas for Layouts vol.4 but again I've not come across any photographic evidence as of yet. Can anybody clarify any of these other potential candidates and give indication as to what or why they were or undoubtably couldn't be seen on the line, ie weight restrictions? Would the line have been used for any light engine movements for instance ? Regards, Ian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 the system probably also saw use by the various J&J Charlesworth locos such as; - hunslet 1482 "Edith" http://www.leedsengine.info/leeds/photo.asp?photo=images/Hunslet Engine/Standard Gauge Loco/Steam/HE 1482 HEI.jpg&phby=Rodger Walton, reproduced with permission of the Hunslet Engine Archive&loco=Edith (Hunslet Engine Co 1482/1925) - manning wardle 1683 "No 11" - MW 1741 "No 9" - hudswell clarke 349 "Ethel" - HC 668 "hero" http://www.leedsengine.info/leeds/photo.asp?photo=images/Hudswell Clarke/Standard Gauge Loco/Steam/hc 668 hero no 10 catalogue illustration dgt.JPG&phby=David G Thomas Collection (Reproduced with permission from the Hunslet Engine Archive)&loco=10 HERO (Hudswell Clarke 668/1903) these are just 5 out of a possible 22 acccording to leedsengine.info http://www.leedsengine.info/leeds/locolist.asp?page=1&order=SELECT+*+FROM+locos+WHERE+ID+>+-1+AND+(NOT+notls)+AND+[Notes]+LIKE+'%charlesworth%'+AND+[Builder]LIKE+'%%'++ORDER+by+[Works+No] 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted February 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2019 Have you seen the material on this line on the LNER Encyclopedia? Also prototype photo and model of an E&WYUR wagon here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted February 22, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) Thanks for the speedy replies Sir Douglas and Compound, I was aware of the LNER Encyclopedia pages but hadn't seen the wagon page before; I hadn't come across the pages that you linked either, Sir Douglas, although I have seen the image of Edith before but that link is a clearer image than the printed one I'd seen. Thanks again for the replies, time to print out some of this info and make myself a little file up I think. Reards, Ian. Edited February 24, 2019 by 03060 Removed incorrect wagon chassis identification and waffle about page access. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted February 22, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2019 With respect to my reference to the locos suggested as 'potential candidates' by Paul Lunn I don't doubt him in the fact that these locos were seen in the immeadiate area around the E&WYUR, I'm just seeking confirmation as to whether or not they ventured further up the line than the exchange sidings at Stourton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzine Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Hi 03060, Remember, the E&WYUR was used by many of the Leeds based loco manufacturers to test their new products, particularly on gradients. Kind regards Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted February 26, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2019 Thanks Paul, I'd picked up on this earlier but haven't so far come across any potential pictures of this other than the Bulleid SR 0-6-0 shunter / transfer loco 11001 in Stourton sidings on trial after repairs at Hunslet which I can well imagine included runs up the E&WYUR. I'm currently compiling a list of locos for which there are photos of or strong references towards them working on the lines, the RCTS LNER books are throwing up quite a few interesting designs. When I've finished with them I'll re consult my copies of the Hunslet Engine works, Manning Wardle locos and Hudswell Clarke deisel era books and see what I can find. Haven't found any hard evidence of anything bigger than J6's on the lines at the moment and still no references of my favourites the J50's which surprises me with their strong Ardsley connections ....surely they must have put in an appearance at some point ? Anyway, I'm enjoying the hunt. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 26, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2019 11001 had two spells working at Stourton but all the photos I've seen are in the yards there. I wasn't aware of any connection with Hunslet though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted February 26, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2019 Hello Michael, I'm afraid I'm only quoting from a caption in Bellcodes Railway Memories No.22 - Return to Leeds p.18, so am reliant on the authors being in the know (the same comment appears in RM No.25, p.7, different picture and different authors but same Publisher.) I don't know if anything relating to this appears in the Hunslet Engine Works book, I may get chance to look tomorrow. As you say, both photos are of it in Stourton yard, it's only my wishful thinking that suggests that maybe it was trialled up the inclines of the E&WYUR. Unfortunately some of the sources that I'm gathering information from are likely only quoting from one of the other sources as the comments are very similar which is why I would prefer to find photographs of the locos actually on the E&WYUR. You'll probably hear Smithy and I discussing it at the club tomorrow as he's bringing a book down with information relating to a 13t brake van used on the line, if you're down, any comments will be gratefully received. I don't suppose that you shrank your kit of 11001 down to 3mm did you ? Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 27, 2019 We did but we don't have any in stock and it didn't make it to a production etch. It's on a sheet with an HO scale 11001 and the .012" test etch for the LOR structure. The Hunslet connection might be the result of confusion with the 500hp 0-8-0DM built for Peru which was extensively tested around Leeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted February 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) Yes, I wondered that myself having retrieved my copy of the Hunslet book from the loft last night; it seemed coincidental that the 500hp Davy Paxman engine fitted to the roving Peruvian No.4000 in 1951 is the same as the captions regarding 11001 circa 1952 and No.s 4002 and 4003 were 0-6-0's. Although if Hunslet had experience with these engines could that not be the reason for 11001's visit to the Stourton area ? No worries about the kit, I've got plenty of others to be going on with but if you do ever re-etch the etchings, I'll have a 3mm set, please. It's a bit of an ugly duckling really isn't it, which makes it quite appealing ! LoL. I don't suppose anybody knows if any of the Peruvian locos were ever tested up the E&WYUR do they ? Now that would be interesting, especially if they were hauling the NE Dynamometer car as the picture of No.4000 going through my local station of Guiseley shows. Still enjoying the hunt. Regards, Ian. Edited February 27, 2019 by 03060 Inserted missing word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted February 27, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) Having now read the section in Don Townsley's Hunslet book properley (and not just looked at the pretty pictures as I did last night) I've probably answered my own question. No.4000 (0-8-0) ran trials for 4 weeks in 1951 with heavy coal train shunting at Stourton Down Yard before 5 weeks of tests with freight trains between Stourton, Guiseley and Yeadon accompanied by the Dynamometer car. 11001 worked briefly at Stourton Yard in 1952 and then sometime after the Hunslet stock loco No.4003 (0-6-0) was tested there before moving to the Walkden system and returning to be painted in Leeds in 1954 (it then worked at a Shotton steelworks into the 1970's.) Alas no mention of any of the 3 straying up the E&WYUR. Regards, Ian. Edited February 27, 2019 by 03060 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted April 10, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) Just thought that I would post a couple of lists of the locos that I've so far either found photos or references to on the E&WYUR. LNER days : J84 - 3112, 3113 (ex E&WYUR No's 1 and 2) (also EWYUR No 3 scrapped 1923) J85 - 3114 (ex E&WYUR No 4) N19 - 3115, 3116 (ex E&WYUR No's 5 and 6) J52 - 3963, 4053, 4249, 4272, 4273 J54 - 3858, 3679, 3902 J57 - 3686 J62 - 5888 J67/2 - 7352, 7384 J68 - 7036, 7033 J69/1 - 7370, 7367, 7350 J77 - 614, 1349, 1439, 1313 N12 - 2484, 2487 Y3 - 86, 87, 94, 172 (only one of these four trialled ...but I don't know which !) Other loco classes allocated at Ardsley during this period that would seem potentials as usable on the line but as to which, so far, I have not found any references of include examples of classes J2, J3, J4, J6, J7, J11, J27, J39, J50, N5 .....and J83 ! Edited April 12, 2019 by 03060 Extra info added. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted April 10, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) .....and in BR days : J52 - 68790, 68824(?), 68834, 68848, 68869, 68871, 68872, 68875 J6 - 64203, 64222, 64226, 64268 J94 - 68008, 68011, 68015, 68045, 68049, 68062 Ivatt Cl2 - 41273 Ivatt Cl4 - 4304x, 43072 Again other possibles being from J3, J39 and class 05 diesels. Edited March 13, 2021 by 03060 New info found. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted April 10, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2019 Does anybody know of any good photograph vendors that you sometimes see at exhibitions, please, as they may be a good source for unpublished photos taken on the line. I had intended visiting Scalefour North last Saturday to see if there was anybody there but got sidetracked by a run on the Middleton Railway before my 3mm Society meeting at Wakefield MRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2019 Roger Carpenter springs to mind. He appears to have an encyclopedic knowledge of his collection - certainly when I described to him a photo from his collection that I had seen reproduced in a book and of which I wanted a print (the better to see some detail) he knew exactly which one I was after. Prompt service too but one has to be prepared to do business in the old-fashioned way with the aid of a stamp or two. He's usually at ExpoEM in Bracknell and also at Warley but otherwise I've no idea how far he travels. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 i would be suprised if there wasnt anything about the E&WYR in the huge archive of local colliery info left behind by the late John Goodchild which i think is all now in the new archive on Kirkgate 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted April 11, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 11, 2019 Thanks for the information, chaps. I may have missed an opportunity last Sat as Roger Carpenter was certainly at last years 2018 Scalefour North show according to the Nbrass website (I think I now have a Birmingham address for him) .....and I must have driven past the West Yorks History Centre on the way home from the 3mm meeting, although the website states that visits must be by Appointment Only, so I shall make further enquiries. I did follow the A61 back to Leeds on Sat and made a few detours to Thorpe-on-the-hill and Rothwell but didn't come across very much in the way of signs of the old railway, save for a retaining wall. Admittedly I'd forgotton to take my maps with me so I was working a bit blind .....I think that I managed to drive straight through Robin Hood without even realising it ! I know that the landscape in this area has changed pretty drastically since the 1970's but will probably make another trip out sometime, better armed and in less of a hurry, just to get a better feel of the geography. Most of what I will find is probably already covered on the Disused Railway website ....but at least the dogs will get a walk. Cheers, Ian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted April 12, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) I'll try and list the Industrials that I've come up with, either definates or possibles (ie owned by J&J Charlesworth,) as working on or around the line. (Thanks go to Sir Douglas for pointing me in the right direction for most of these.) MW 'I' class 0-6-0st - "Henrietta" (w/no.21 (1861-1895 (?)) MW 'O' class 0-6-0st - No.3 (w/no.1325) ( 1896 - 1899 sold to Wath Main colliery,) - No.9 (w/no.1741 (1908 - to at least 1935) (Low Shops and Fanny pit) - photo on Leodis w/s. MW 0-6-0st - No.7 "Brothers" (w/no.362) (1889 - 1928) MW 'M' class 0-6-0st - No.11 (w/no.1683) (1907 - ?) - "The Cousins" (w/no.323) (1870 - ?) MW 'Q' class 0-6-0st - "Cousins II" (w/no.1222) (1892 - ?) - "Albany II" (w/no.1294) (1894 - ?) MW 'Special' 0-6-0st - "Success" (w/no.1844) (1914 - ?) - "Albany" (w/no.1904) (1916 - ?) MW 0-6-0st - "The Bare" (1914 - ?) (Belonged to contractors William Allan Richards WAR) - photo on Leodis w/s. HC 0-6-0t - No.1 (w/no.1306) (1917 - ?) (Beeston colliery) - No.6 (w/no.218) (1880 - ?) (Later MSC No.34 "Copenhagen") HC 0-6-0st - No.8 "Eva" (w/no.246) (1882 - ?) - "The Brothers" (w/no.267) (1886 - ?) - "Fanny" (w/no.361) (1890 - ?) HC 0-4-0st - "Ethel" (w/no.162) (1875 - ?) - "Ethel" (w/no.349) (1892 - ?) - "Success" (w/no.386) (1891 - ?) - "Hero" (w/no.668) (1903 - ?) - a good but unidentifiable photo of one of the above 0-4-0st's (probably) on the Leodis w/s. HC 0-6-0t - S102 "Cathryn" (w/no.1884) ( 1944 - 1968 - Newmarket colliery) - S103 (w/no.1864/52) (Newmarket colliery) HE 0-6-0st - "Joe" (w/no 1678) (1931 - NCB days - collided with J52 68790 on 20/5/1952) - "Edith" (w/no.1482) (1925 - NCB days at Broom pit, Middleton - 15") - "Jubilee" (w/no.1726) (? - 1973 at Newmarket colliery - 16" ?) - "Jess" (w/no.2876) (1968 - 1973 at Newmarket colliery - 18") BH 0-4-0t - No.8 (? - 1906) Diesel - NCB No.16 - HC 0-6-0 DM (Newmarket colliery.) Baguley W/No 3001 4 Whl (Robin Hood coliery.) .....I'm sure that there must be others !! Edited February 13, 2021 by 03060 Extra info added. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted April 12, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 12, 2019 PS - I've quoted the dates for Albany (1916) and Albany II (1894) as referenced on the Leeds Engine Info website but I would have thought personally that Albany would have come before Albany II ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Traces of the railway are able to be walked/cycled on. On Pontefract road there used to be a foot underpass in the location where the railway ran from Rothwell Haigh towards the mine (next to Leeds - Woodlesford line). From Haigh Road the track can be walked to Rothwell need to go onto Church Road and the Paddock (proper road name) as the line has gone in these areas. From Rothwell mine and station site its now a greenway through Robin Hood to Rodillian School passing under the A61 next to the Gardners Arms. On a back road in Robin Hood there is still a level crossing with rails in situ. Until recently there used to be still a 60' length of rail alongside the railway line to the east of the A61 bridge. Quite a lot of the track bed of the branch from Robin Hood to Newmarket colliery (one of the last to operate in the area - next to J30 M62 where the large white fridge unit is) the track bed is mostly passable. The branch from north of Robin Hood can be traced as far as Wood Lane (near to the Jaw Bones). Locos in later days would have come from Ardsley shed. Not seen any photos but I know that there were many trips from Rothwell before the line closed to the coast. Testing of Hunslet locos seems to have taken place at Waterloo colliery near to Temple Newsam especially as in the early days both companies had some common directors. 03060 one person to perhaps contact for photos of the railway in its latter days before closing is Derek Rayner (as per Old Glory mag) as he lived here for many years. The Peru loco was more powerful that the NER Dyno car could log and Don mentioned the other week at the Middleton Rly social evening that they did a pull test and got the needle off the end of the scale! Not seen much info about where the other Leeds buiklders tested locos but as Fowler and Kitson's main line connection was into Hunslet Lane yard (now Crown Point shopping) I suspect that did load tests with wagons in the yard. As an aside from info I have seen Kitson's shared Fowler's works shunter which for some time was based on a traction engine. As J&J Charlesworths were part of the owners of the line they took some liberties and I'm aware of their locos operating unofficially on the line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 For interest here are a couple of Google maps (one crudely amended with the lines highlighted) Near where the dotted line diverges there was a section of rail in vegetation. Level crossing on the old line towards the brick works (top of Jumbles lLane) on the back road in Robin Hood next to the M! logo on the map. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted June 13, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2019 Thanks AMJ, I'm going to try and do a walkabout sometime next month (with the dogs and some maps this time) so the pointers that you have given me are very useful as is the doctored google map. Last time that I went through the area I found it quite difficult to envisage the area as it had been with all of the 'new' motorways that have been built since closure ...I'll try again, I'm also now armed with more of The Godfrey Maps that cover the area in the early 1900's. I'll buy an 'Old Glory' magazine next week on holiday and see if there are any contact details for Mr. Rayner and as a member of LMRS there's always a chance that I may get to speak with Don Townsley. Mr. Franks mentions in his book that drivers proceeded with caution on the line due to the Charlesworth's engines popping up unexpectantly, as illustrated by the accident between a J52 and the NCB's 'Joe.' Thanks once again for the extra info, it all helps. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradford_boy Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Hi All, If you have some interest in whats left of the E&WYUR. There is a fantastic YouTube series online now all about it. Exploring what's left and walking the route. Oh and lots of loco pictures. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-iLBhpCwmO8FoOPt4_noVqPf8bzTOPe0 Regards, Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 03060 Posted January 24, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2020 6 hours ago, bradford_boy said: Hi All, If you have some interest in whats left of the E&WYUR. There is a fantastic YouTube series online now all about it. Exploring what's left and walking the route. Oh and lots of loco pictures. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-iLBhpCwmO8FoOPt4_noVqPf8bzTOPe0 Regards, Darren Thanks Darren, I'll check these out over the w/end. I've changed job recently and now work on Jct 41 Ind Estate, Wakefield, so am just waiting for the lighter evenings to come back so that I can take in a few of the the routes on my way home. As the road and countryside network has changed massively in this area it can be quite hard to visualise the route but some of the maps posted earlier helped on a previous location sortie. I'm also hoping to see if anyone on the Stanley layout at Pontefract show this W/end can shed any more light on some of the motive power used over the line. I've still not seen any evidence of J50's on the route. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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