Hinton Road Engine Shed

[MarshLane]

Hi,

Nice work with the track.  Templot is an absolute swine to learn ... but once you have that penny drop moment, everything becomes clear and it is relatively simple and the best track template software around in my view.  Like you that wasn't my view when I first started with it!  My advice would be to definitely look at some tutorials - spend an hour or two with YouTube(!) - it really is worth it.  

 

The preformed track panels that your using are ok for straight track, and can be adapted for curves, but for pointwork individual hand laid sleepers and chairs, while time consuming, will always give the best looking, and smoothest curves, so it is worth persevering.  Failing that, any queries or questions, check out the Handbuilt track forum on here, lots of knowledgable people including Martin Wynne who create the software, but also have a look and read of the Templot club - Martin's own forum, which is perhaps the best place to ask Templot questions and read up on it.

 

Your initial efforts look very good tho - and remember the chairs holding the rail at a slight angle is prototypical, the Peco set up isn't!  But how many people would actually notice that on a layout is debatable!

 

Rich

[GWR57xx]

Thought I'd make a start on the turnout kit.

This is what came in the box:

 

Contents:

• one laser cut ply template
• six laser cut ply gauges (not shown in the photo above)
• two 515mm lengths of plain rail for the stock rails
• two 490mm lengths of chamfered rail for the switch blades, closure rails and check rails
• one laser cut ply tie bar with two pins
• one preformed common crossing with wing rails
• nine sprues of Permaway chairs

There are several alternative choices of components available including chair type, gauge and rail.

 

The "Chair Layout" plan is a colour pdf that I downloaded from the Greenwood website. I only have a mono laser printer so I coloured it in afterwards! No other instructions are provided so I'm hoping it will all become obvious to a beginner once I get going. Mike at Greenwood has been very good at answering my questions so far, so if I get stuck I'm sure I'll get all the help I need.

 

There is also a video of Mike making up one of his turnouts which was done for the Gauge O Guild's first Virtual Exhibition and is available to members and non-members via the GOG website -> Gallery -> You Tube Videos:

 

The video shows some check rail gauges and also some fishplates for joining the wing and closure rails, neither of which were included in my kit.

 

I have some C&L gauges which will do for the check rails, but I also found a slightly worn 1982 20p coin that is perfect for gauging the flangeway according to the GOG spec:

 

Each Permaway sprue contains 2 slide chairs, 2 bridge chairs and 16 plain chairs (8 left & 8 right facing keys):

 

Exactoscale chairs are available as an option, but I wanted to see how these compare.

 

The made up crossing should be quite sturdy:

 

 

 

but unfortunately mine hadn't been soldered up completely:

 

The splice rail wasn't connected to the point rail or the bridging rod at the nose end, so very light pressure on the ends of those two rails opened up the gap seen in the photo above (shown here with no additional pressure applied). 

A little bit of attention with the soldering iron put that problem right but no photo because my soldering is functional, not pretty!

 

Tie bar & pins:

 

Rails (this is the code 125 option):

 

Gauges (33mm & 31.5mm options are also available):

 

Common crossing offered up to the template:

 

This is after my additional soldering to the splice rail, which is now flush with the top of the point rail and no gap between them 🙂

 

First attempt at cutting some of the "trim to suit" chairs (just a dry run):

 

The "trimming to suit" is going to involve quite a bit of trial and error to get the best fit, but fortunately there are plenty of spare plain chairs to practice on.

 

So far I'm pleased with the kit but the acid test is going to be whether or not stock runs cleanly through it, which is a while away yet.

TTFN 🙂

 

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx
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[GWR57xx]

One aspect that is not obvious to me at the moment is how to attach the tiebar.

I can think of two options, A and B, but which is best / easiest?:

A: pin head soldered to track, pin through hole in tiebar then bent over.

B: pin through hole in tiebar, bent over then tail soldered to track.

 

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Peter

 

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx
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[34006]

Hi Peter, B looks to be the way forward,you aren't putting any stress on the soldered joint while bending the pin.IIRC,pins can be quite tough to bend.Best of all would be do all the bending before you do any soldering.Perhaps you could do some trials as to how big a hole you would need to get the tail of the bent pin through,then make a washer to prevent the tie bar from falling over the pin head,fit before soldering the pin to the rails.If that makes sense.

 

atb

Phil

Edited January 21, 2021 by 34006

[GWR57xx]

This is a view from the underside with the common crossing loosely in place:

 

 

I think now would be a good time to attach the frog wire, 'cos I don't fancy trying to get a soldering iron in there later on when the chairs are all stuck down - I'd probably also end up melting some of the plastic chairs.

 

Just had a thought - am I supposed to cut all the webbing off after it's built? I guess so otherwise they will be obvious even with ballast up to the tops of the sleepers... that's a lot of webs to cut.

 

Still think it would be easier to attach the frog wire now though 🙂

 

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx
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[GWR57xx]

On 23/01/2021 at 11:34, GWR57xx said:

 

Still think it would be easier to attach the frog wire now though 🙂

 

 

Well it was certainly easy to attach the frog wire, but then it just got in the  way!

So off it came again, and I'll find a way to attach it after I've cut the webs.

 

I've made progress, but it's too dark now to get a decent photo.

 

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx

[dpgibbons]

The webbing is not designed to be cut off, as it's almost invisible once ballasted, especially in an engine shed environment where the ballast is very fine and often covers the sleeper tops. If you do remove the webbing you will likely find that some sleepers will come loose, because butanone gives a poor bond between chair and rail. Best to experiment with a trial section and see if it's worth the hassle. 

 

Attaching the tiebar to a pinhead is unlikely to give you a robust joint, so better to go with plan B.  Or investigate more authentic 7mm stretcher bars, such as these.

 

 

[GWR57xx]

17 minutes ago, dpgibbons said:

Or investigate more authentic 7mm stretcher bars, such as these.

 

Those look very nice, but I can’t work out from the Ambis website what the product code is. They don’t seem to be listed in their price list? I saw the note saying 7mm stuff is only available through Hobby Holidays, so went to their website and found a product “RTRS7”, but it doesn’t have a description and the photo isn’t clear. Is that them? Thanks.

[dpgibbons]

I believe C&L sell the Ambis stretchers, but good luck finding them on their website. MM1 also sell 7mm stretchers here which are less authentic but more robust. 

[GWR57xx]

State of play last night:

 

I know that progress is very slow, but that is deliberate on my part since this is my first turnout build. I don't want to rush into silly mistakes that then require rework. 

 

Since there are no instructions other than the chair diagram and the video (which omits lots of details), I'm having to think it out as I go. I'm sure that anyone who has built a turnout before will know all this, but it is new to me.

 

For example: for the chairs, do the keys point left or right and which side of the rail do they go? I know the answer, but it still requires care and attention to get them right, especially around the crossing. Hopefully I have them all correct, because they are stuck down now.

 

I just went by the web on the ply template as to the shape and length of the check rail, so hopefully that is also correct.

 

I don't know if it proves anything or nothing, but the pony truck from a Heljan 43xx ran very well in both directions across the short straight section laid so far. Even with the flanges angled as far as the check rail gap would allow, they didn't catch on the crossing nose which must be a good sign?

 

Some of my trimming of chairs "to suit" could have been more accurate but I think when it's painted and ballasted (if it makes it onto a layout) I won't notice.

 

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx
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[GWR57xx]

The rail I am using for the turnout is the code 125 from Greenwood Model Railway Products. I was surprised that the C&L roller gauges are not a good fit on the head of this rail, so thought I'd compare it to the Peco code 124 rail.

 

 

 

Not the best photos, sorry.

 

The Peco rail has a noticeably rounder profile to the shoulders compared to the almost square shoulders of the code 125. 

The head of the Peco rail is a smidge narrower (1.58mm) than the code 125 (1.62mm), enough to make a big difference with the C&L gauges.

 

The Peco rail has a smaller profile foot so isn't as snug a fit in the Permaway chairs, but it is still a good fit.

 

 

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx
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[34006]

21 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

I believe C&L sell the Ambis stretchers, but good luck finding them on their website. MM1 also sell 7mm stretchers here which are less authentic but more robust. 

I just rang Phil up and ordered them.Easy as.

 

atb

Phil

[GWR57xx]

1 hour ago, 34006 said:

I just rang Phil up and ordered them.Easy as.

 

atb

Phil

That’s great. Pleased for you bud. Who’s Phil?

 

[GWR57xx]

Darn it! Or words to that effect.

No matter how careful I thought I was being getting the chairs the right way round, I still got it wrong. 
I went to put fishplates on the ends of the wing rails and realised that the keys on those chairs were facing the joint at the heel end. It is now plainly obvious that the nearest joint to them is the one between the wing rails and closure rails, but I had completely overlooked that. Doh! I had to cut the fishplates down a bit to get them to fit, but I will pretend not to notice.

 

[dpgibbons]

Not long ago you were happy with Peco, so I think you're making rapid progress.

[34006]

9 hours ago, GWR57xx said:

That’s great. Pleased for you bud. Who’s Phil?

 

He now runs C & L,down in South London.

 

atb 

Phil

(Different one!)

 

 

[GWR57xx]

On 26/01/2021 at 00:32, dpgibbons said:

Not long ago you were happy with Peco, so I think you're making rapid progress.

I blame RMWeb 🙂.

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx

[GWR57xx]

11 hours ago, 34006 said:

I just rang Phil up and ordered them.Easy as.

 

atb

Phil

I’d be very interested to see how you get on with them.

[GWR57xx]

I think I made another rookie mistake in glueing down all the slide chairs too soon.

Soldering the stretcher bar pins to the switch blades is probably going to turn the chairs into unidentifiable blobs of molten plastic. 😧

 

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx

[bgman]

I've been following your "adventure" into 7mm and I think you've certainly made the right choice using Greenwood items, extremely good value products.

I also decided to use them after making my own pointwork which is mainly down to the convenience it offers together with everything include in the kits. I would offer some advice regarding the track gauge. I know it is a personal preference and i have found by using 31.5mm the wheelsets travel through the V formation far better and to that end my original gauges ( much like you have found ) didn't quite work. I therefore purchased some very useful / inexpensive fold up ones from here -  

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/1173/7a3150-track-gauge-for-31-5mm

 

I purchased 3 sets and have found them to be invaluable and just to illustrate here they are posed on a B7 point kit 

 

 

For the stretcher bars I went for the ones produced by MM1 models as I have found them to be more robust.

 

Keep up the good work and don't get disheartened with the mistakes we've all been there and at least you can easily remove the slide chairs with care and without too much damage hopefully.

 

G

Edited January 26, 2021 by bgman

[dpgibbons]

You are describing O-MF turnouts, which Greenwood also supply, with the crossing vees having finer clearances.

 

The Scale7 Group shop (members only) has a range of O-MF gauges and jigs, although it seems have supply issues at present.

[GWR57xx]

Stretcher bar in place (resting on an offcut of sleeper to support it), with pins pushed through from below, cut to size and bent over:

 

Found a couple of the PermaWay fishplates that I'd previously ordered from Phoenix Paints to isolate the closure rails from the wing rails:

 

Straight closure rail fitted:

 

Curved closure rail fitted:

 

Pins soldered to switch blades and we're done (almost):

 

There is just the tiniest hint of a bump when I roll the test pony truck across the crossing. The very tip of the V is very slightly higher than the tops of the wing rails so just needs rubbing down a little. I don't think it shows in the photo (the black dots on the rail head were to mark the chair positions when I was "trimming them to suit"):

 

I much prefer the idea of the hinged stretcher bar where the pins are free to rotate (as opposed to the soldered solid variety):

 

I pre-tinned the switch rails before fitting them and tinned the pins before attaching them to the rails, and I think I got away without melting any chairs beyond recognition 🙂.

 

I was a bit heavy handed with the solder though so I'll need to get the mini-drill onto it to reduce the size of the blobs:

 

The only other problem I've noticed so far is that the tip of the straight switch blade (closest to the camera) is very slightly higher than the stock rail, but a couple of passes with a file should cure that:

 

I'll superglue the rails to the chairs to prevent any movement and give it all a bit more strength, but apart from the few tiny niggles I mentioned and a bit of wiring it's ready for planting.

 

By way of comparison, here it is beside a Peco SL-E792BH medium turnout (with coffin removed):

 

And end-to-end to check the height difference (about 0.15mm):

 

I'm quite chuffed that my first attempt at building a turnout has resulted in something useable, which is all credit to the Greenwood kit. It has been a very enjoyable exercise and I've learned quite a lot in the process. 

 

When I started this thread I never dreamed that I'd be building my own track. And since I already have all the Peco track I need to build this plan, that is probably still what I'll use for this layout just to get something working. However, the next layout (Newbridge, a GWR BLT, whenever that happens) is now likely to be drawn up in Templot and entirely hand built. All thanks to the many amazing layout threads and blogs on RMWeb that continue to motivate and educate us beginners and broaden our horizons. Cheers! 👍

 

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx
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[pwr]

Really good piece of work that. I don't think you can beat hand built turnouts and as you have shown its not too difficult. If I were starting again that's the way I would go. The geometry of the Witham end turnout after the crossing gate on Black Notley is really not that good.

 

Paul R

[GWR57xx]

On 18/01/2021 at 13:09, GWR57xx said:

 

So, here's one I made earlier:

 

 

 

I've now had a delivery of some dibond for the display bases, so here is the first track panel stuck down:

 

Dibond comes in lots of different colours. This one is gloss black this side and matt black on the reverse.

 

The material is only 3mm thick but is very stiff for its weight. The other reason for choosing dibond is that the resulting height of the rail exactly matches the height of my fiddle cassettes, making transfer from display case to cassette/layout easy.

 

I'll be making several of these in different lengths to suit different engines. This one is 275mm and is intended for a Dapol/Lionheart 45xx small prairie if they ever materialise. Three years and counting... 

 

I don't intend to stain, paint or ballast it as I quite like the look as it is, with the contrast between gloss black, wood sleepers, dark chairs and silver rails.

 

I have enough PermaWay plain chairs left over from the turnout kit to make two more this size. 🙂

 

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx
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[GWR57xx]

Edge trim added, along with a Pannier for scale:

 

Edited February 11 by GWR57xx
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