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Problems with Cooper Craft


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About time any reference to Slaters 4mm wagons was removed from his site too, now that they're prominently displayed in Slaters manufactured boxes on Eileen's and H&A's stands at shows. 

 

(Also time Slaters added the MR wagons back into their own site too!)

 

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I would settle for having him remove the coach range that still bears my name from his website until such time as they can be produced. As I know that the "long" moulds were built to fit a specific type of moulding machine (and I  know where they all are) and would require some competent engineering to alter them for a different machine I have my doubts about the likelihood of these ever being produced again.  I  ordered one some time ago, paying the £15 through his card system and a couple of reminders (now years ago), including one offering to help, elicited no response. Unless /until that order is fulfilled I can safely tell others about this as a warning not to place orders without seeing goods.

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

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13 hours ago, Ian Kirk said:

I would settle for having him remove the coach range that still bears my name from his website until such time as they can be produced. As I know that the "long" moulds were built to fit a specific type of moulding machine (and I  know where they all are) and would require some competent engineering to alter them for a different machine I have my doubts about the likelihood of these ever being produced again.  I  ordered one some time ago, paying the £15 through his card system and a couple of reminders (now years ago), including one offering to help, elicited no response. Unless /until that order is fulfilled I can safely tell others about this as a warning not to place orders without seeing goods.

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

 

 

 

;)

 

 

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On 23/03/2019 at 13:44, TheTurfBurner said:

.

 

If there is anybody out there who still thinks Dunn has simply fallen on hard times, read this: https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.cooper-craft.co.uk

 

Am I missing something?  There are 9 reviews on this site, all negative and giving him one 'star' However the header banner shows 10 reviews and two stars??? 

 

Tony

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There is a review missing, perhaps it has been removed by Trust Pilot as it completely the opposite of all the rest or it's hidden.  One five star review would shift it was a 1 overall to a 1.4 and probably trigger the 2 star in the overall summary.

 

So it might still be in the calculation despite being hidden.

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On 23/03/2019 at 14:22, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I am not unsympathetic to your situation. But having met Paul Dunne, my conclusion is that he is not a crook, he is severely ill and not coping.

 

And, frustratingly unwilling to accept genuine offers of assistance; I've spoken to someone who represented a group of modellers who offered some years ago to help him out , or buy him out, as he preferred.  This got nowhere. Mr Dunn appears to cling to the unrealistic belief that he can produce the range he still advertises. Now I accept that's hearsay evidence, but I have no reason to doubt the bona fides of the chap I spoke to, it was a well-meant, well-founded and credible offer of help, I concluded. Further, Ian Kirk has attested to his offer to help out, also shunned.

 

It may well be that this state of affairs is the result of an inability to cope due to illness of one sort or another.  If so, I would be the first to sympathise. On the other hand, I also sympathise with those frustrated or out of pocket as a result. I long since concluded that there is no prospect of this situation ever being resolved.

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3 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

Am I missing something?  There are 9 reviews on this site, all negative and giving him one 'star' However the header banner shows 10 reviews and two stars??? 

 

Tony

 

TrustPilot appear to do two things with their scores:

1. they weight them with a depreciation factor so that more recent scores have more of an effect than older scores, although in this case with consistent 1 star rating the weighting doesn't really affect things that much. 

 

2. they use a Bayesian average. It's kind of like a starting point that uses pre-existing knowledge (i.e. it's an estimate of what companies are usually like - TrustPilot seem to think an average score for a company is between 3 and 4 stars). This is a statistical method that can be effective for small datasets, but it won't be an effective representation of the data if it is systematically different to the larger community. In the case of TrustPilot they say the effect is to stop a company being completely trashed or completely exalted by a single bad or good review - effectively TrustPilot gives away a few moderately good scores for free to start with. As more and more reviews are added, the effect of this 'preset' will wear off. With only 10 reviews, I think it hasn't completely worn off yet, so CooperCraft is still free-loading points from an expectation of it being an average company rather then entirely on its own merit. 

 

TrustPilot's explanation: https://support.trustpilot.com/hc/en-us/articles/201748946

 

And the science bit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_average

 

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On 29/03/2019 at 14:58, Rail-Online said:

Am I missing something?  There are 9 reviews on this site, all negative and giving him one 'star' However the header banner shows 10 reviews and two stars??? 

 

Tony

 

"Unhappy bunny" has left two reviews, but you have to open the review by clicking on "Read 1 more review about Coopercraft". There's your 10th

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This thread is turning into a mini-me repeat of the locked thread which was pinned to the top of this section. Everything people should know is in that thread. It was pinned to keep in visible. I'm not sure going around the same circle in a second thread adds anything. The first thread provides ample warning and reasons why people should only buy Cooper Craft products if they are in a position to see that the goods are actually available and that mail order is at best a step of hope. I really can't see why we need this thread.

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5 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

This thread is turning into a mini-me repeat of the locked thread which was pinned to the top of this section. Everything people should know is in that thread. It was pinned to keep in visible. I'm not sure going around the same circle in a second thread adds anything. The first thread provides ample warning and reasons why people should only buy Cooper Craft products if they are in a position to see that the goods are actually available and that mail order is at best a step of hope. I really can't see why we need this thread.

 

it might be worth reading the OP. People are still getting caught out.

 

 

 

Jason

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His website has the address, but I think that is his home address. The 'workshop', (afaik it is still the same leaking old tin cowshed) is located elsewhere. The photos of the injection moulding machine, and Strigon mill, (on the 'about us' page) are not at his site, most likely from Tony Brown's works from umpteen years ago. A few years ago much of the tooling was only worth scrap, It'll be much worse now, I expect.

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5 hours ago, S&CR said:

 

Personally I think it is a good idea to keep people abreast of progress - or lack thereof. We should be cooperating and sharing our experiences to get this resolved, ideally our money back and the tools out of their hands where they are wasted.

 

PS   Model Rail magazine was giving out contact details for Cooper Craft in an article as recently as a month or two ago. I have traced their property as being Willows, Broom Lane...

 

If Model Rail are giving their address in an article then my advice is to contact Model Rail, advise them of the history of Cooper Craft (I'm sure they know), perhaps include a link to the locked thread and request that they reconsider printing such details in future.

 

In terms of experience, I sympathise with the OP but there is nothing in this thread that hasn't been said many times over in the locked thread, which is pinned. If people aren't going to read that thread then they can't complain that the warnings weren't there. If people want to post updates it might be better to PM Andy Y with the update and request that he inserts an additional post into the locked thread periodically with updates.

 

As it is we're going round the same arguments that have already been made multiple times and duplicating a thread which is pinned to the top of this board precisely so that it remains visible as a warning.

 

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On 02/04/2019 at 22:10, jjb1970 said:

 

If Model Rail are giving their address in an article then my advice is to contact Model Rail, advise them of the history of Cooper Craft (I'm sure they know), perhaps include a link to the locked thread and request that they reconsider printing such details in future.

 

In terms of experience, I sympathise with the OP but there is nothing in this thread that hasn't been said many times over in the locked thread, which is pinned. If people aren't going to read that thread then they can't complain that the warnings weren't there. If people want to post updates it might be better to PM Andy Y with the update and request that he inserts an additional post into the locked thread periodically with updates.

 

As it is we're going round the same arguments that have already been made multiple times and duplicating a thread which is pinned to the top of this board precisely so that it remains visible as a warning.

 

I have already dealt with this once on RMweb. Model Rail staff are now aware of the situation regarding Coopercraft. A Coopercraft product was used in an article and the contact details  were shown in an article several issues ago. The writer had bought the item some years ago and was unaware of the more recent history. None of the editorial staff have had recent dealings with Coopercraft, so we were not aware of the situation at the time the article was published. (CJL)

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11 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

None of the editorial staff have had recent dealings with Coopercraft, so we were not aware of the situation at the time the article was published. (CJL)

 

That tends to suggest that all concerned should devote rather more time to reading RMweb - none of us regulars could possibly be unaware of the Coopercraft 'issue' !!

 

.... you haven't anything upcoming that might mention Falcon Brassworks by any chance ?!?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

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On 03/04/2019 at 20:00, Hal Nail said:

This sounds remarkably like most of my meetings at work.

 

I'm Spinning Around

 

Yours

 

Kylie Minogue

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21 minutes ago, twiggy1969 said:

you cant buy falcon brassworks items anymore thanks to the inpatients of some folk on here 

 

Incorrect.

 

It was due to the owner receiving payment but not replying to enquiries and not supplying the correct items,  as well as home life pressures. 

 

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I found CooperCraft kits reasonable in terms of what they used to make for the price they cost. I ordered a few kits around two years ago because the other stockist had none. Money left my credit card account but, after hearing nothing, I asked for an update on progress and still got no response. I then contacted WorldPay and asked for a refund, explaining that the supplier was ignoring communications, and received the credit. WorldPay must have a number of reports of the supplier failing to meet his obligations but that organisation continues to allow CooperCraft to use its services - at some cost to it I guess! Unless CooperCraft would like to respond as being able to supply from stock right now, I would suggest that potential purchasers save themselves the grief by choosing an alternative.

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2 hours ago, Kingzance said:

 I would suggest that potential purchasers save themselves the grief by choosing an alternative.

 

That's the problem and why some kits are going for astronomical prices on eBay.

 

Very few of the kits have an alternative as kit manufacturers didn't tend to release items that competed with each other. As an example there aren't many of the LNER carriages originally made by Ian Kirk with an alternative in the Comet range.

 

 

Jason

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15 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

That tends to suggest that all concerned should devote rather more time to reading RMweb - none of us regulars could possibly be unaware of the Coopercraft 'issue' !!

 

.... you haven't anything upcoming that might mention Falcon Brassworks by any chance ?!?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

I think I spend quite enough of my time reading RMweb and I was unaware of the Coopercraft situation. I have no idea who or what might be mentioned in upcoming articles. (CJL)

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