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RSH Ugly - Dapol Bash


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Hi,

 

Rooting through my boxes of projects I came across this approximation of an RSH Ugly like those that ran at Corby which I quite fancy picking back up and finishing. Now I'm sure someone will tell me that since 2005 when it was last looked at there is now an RTR version, as seemingly there is with everything now, but assuming there is not...IMG_20190223_132820237.jpg.8cb07b3fcdfa9fba85c46c26a5ac551e.jpg

 

It's built on a Dapol austerity and has suffered a bit in storage the cab steps aren't meant to fold away! The sand boxes are wrong at the top and need some attention. For some reason I shortened the bunker but now can't find a prototype reference for this...

 

The main question I have looking through reference photos on Flickr (credit David Cooke - I'm not sure how to post a link to his image without it appearing as an image here, so not intending to post without permission, please check his other photos they are great https://www.flickr.com/photos/60790501@N04/) is that the wheels seem further spread apart so smaller?... but then pictures of austerities also look like there is more clearance between the wheels...? Is it just the bigger flange profile on the model closing up the gap?

S2888 RSH7670/50 0-6-0ST No.59 @ S&L Minerals,Corby

IMG_20190223_132823734.jpg.de7ef703e973d8895293020928f2d882.jpg

 

I'm not aiming for P4 standards but something that is passable would be good!

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Very nice!

In the true Corbs spirit! There is, as yet no kit for this engine, your go has inspired me to have a crack at it!

Any chance of the odd pointer how you did the saddle tank please?

                                                                                                 Chris.

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45 minutes ago, Sandhole said:

Any chance of the odd pointer how you did the saddle tank please?

 

Thank you. When I take apart I'll hopefully remember! It's the standard austerity tank cut back and then infilled with plasticard. The firebox is brass bent round and soldered to a backhead shaped piece of plate.

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Impressive!

I await that with interest!

I have a brace of Austerities in the process of becoming 50550s, following Corbs excellent thread on this site. So it is a project for the future.

                                                                          Chris.

                                                                                 

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1 hour ago, doilum said:

Looks like 4' wheels

 

I was thinking that. Trying to work out if there are any 16mm wheels I could use.

 

1 hour ago, doilum said:

symmetrical wheelbase. The rear axle is further back than on an austerity.

:scenic:

Yea, I have a feeling you are right but I'm trying not to notice... Not sure I'm up for stretched chassis and coupling rods...

 

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Less than a fiver for the brass. Not sure about the wheels in 4mm. Will need a soldering iron and a pin vice plus a few 1mm drills. Start with the coupling rod and use this as a template to drill the frames.  If it works invest in the j94 body. The satisfaction of building your own chassis is immense.

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A Google search took me to the National Preservation site. There is a long thread of information including a suggestion that Hornby terrier wheels might do. Terriers had a 48" wheel but I am not sure of spokes or crankpin. The ugly has 13 spokes slightly convexed like the big Hunslets. The short tank is due to a fairly massive firebox that topped out well above the boiler line rather like the ancient Manning Wardle they replaced. Whereas the austerities were a lower spec version of the 50550, the uglies upped the spec with roller bearings on the axle and crank. If some one can come up with some bassic measurements I might be tempted to have a go in 7mm.

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12 hours ago, doilum said:

A Google search took me to the National Preservation site. There is a long thread of information including a suggestion that Hornby terrier wheels might do. Terriers had a 48" wheel but I am not sure of spokes or crankpin. The ugly has 13 spokes slightly convexed like the big Hunslets. The short tank is due to a fairly massive firebox that topped out well above the boiler line rather like the ancient Manning Wardle they replaced. Whereas the austerities were a lower spec version of the 50550, the uglies upped the spec with roller bearings on the axle and crank. If some one can come up with some bassic measurements I might be tempted to have a go in 7mm.

I have attempted a chassis previously but I think I might do the body then have motivation to make a new chassis. Previously I got as far as motion and could not get it to run freely.

 

Looking through some old catalogues I found online wheel options (if 4') are a bit limited that I can see. Either an Alan Gibson J69 or Markits L&Y 4' but neither are 13 spoke. 

 

That's good info though, I will look out the page you mention.

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Looks great so far! If you are willing to overlook the difference in spokes etc, Terrier wheels may do the job quite well, as they'll increase the gap between the wheels making the unequal spacing less obvious (in theory).

I wonder if you could get away with using thin styrene sheet cut to shape as an overlay on the cab sides to get the distinctive cut-out? Or, what might work better is if you just file out the bottom right corner of the cab 'window' cut out to a right angle, then do the same with the top left and bottom left, use a piece of styrene sheet as a filler piece in the gap and cut the upper left curve into that?

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11 hours ago, Corbs said:

Looks great so far! If you are willing to overlook the difference in spokes etc, Terrier wheels may do the job quite well, as they'll increase the gap between the wheels making the unequal spacing less obvious (in theory).

I wonder if you could get away with using thin styrene sheet cut to shape as an overlay on the cab sides to get the distinctive cut-out? Or, what might work better is if you just file out the bottom right corner of the cab 'window' cut out to a right angle, then do the same with the top left and bottom left, use a piece of styrene sheet as a filler piece in the gap and cut the upper left curve into that?

 

Thanks, I've just been reading your 50550 thread and have another Dapol Austerity that is now probably going to go that way thanks to your inspiration. I think the terrier wheels for this could be a good halfway mark before I build a dedicated Chassis and they can then go into a 50550 of my own.

 

Do you know if you have to keep Dapol with Dapol or could you put say a Hornby Terrier wheel set in a Dapol Austerity? For the cab I will probably repeat what I did for the front and infill with plasticard and then drill/cut the new shape then fill and sand.

IMG_20190302_210613.jpg.5acba729a49985505bb0ecd1f8b6a44d.jpg

 

Unfortunately looking at it to take this picture you can see the left side and across the top has come adrift and needs reattaching and the joint filling/sanding again.

 

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11 hours ago, Corbs said:

I've not seen the Dapol chassis before but I would guess it's the same? From memory I just boshed the wheels in without swapping the axles.

Quite right Corbs.

I've done a Dapol and a Hornby 50550 conversion, following your lead. Both chassis accepted the Terrier wheels perfectly OK.

                                                                                                     Chris.

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2 hours ago, Sandhole said:

Quite right Corbs.

I've done a Dapol and a Hornby 50550 conversion, following your lead. Both chassis accepted the Terrier wheels perfectly OK.

                                                                                                     Chris.

 

Good to know, thank you. Guess I'll be keeping an eye on eBay for a suitable victim now then!

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They are out there. 

For some reason unknown to me, the Dapol ones go cheaper except when they are a special edition. You wouldn't really want to mess with one of those anyway.

My origional Dapol machine is still doing trips across Manchester 30? odd years after I bought it. Renumbered and fitted with a Kingdom kits, remember them?, bunker conversion to represent one that, for some reason, ended up at Patricroft shed for a while. That piqued a little boy's trainspotting interest!!!!!!

Missed the arrival of the Princess though and City of Salford on a divert!!!!

Sorry, rambling!!!

RT Models are the place to go for buffers, lights, steam generators etc. I speak as a well satisfied customer!

I can't remember if that has been mentioned on this post already.

That an Ugly wasn't present on the Worth Valley for last year's celebration, was the only disappointment I had during that excellent week!!!

                                                                                                                                      Chris.

                                                                          

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On 25/02/2019 at 09:41, doilum said:

A Google search took me to the National Preservation site. There is a long thread of information including a suggestion that Hornby terrier wheels might do. Terriers had a 48" wheel but I am not sure of spokes or crankpin. The ugly has 13 spokes slightly convexed like the big Hunslets. The short tank is due to a fairly massive firebox that topped out well above the boiler line rather like the ancient Manning Wardle they replaced. Whereas the austerities were a lower spec version of the 50550, the uglies upped the spec with roller bearings on the axle and crank. If some one can come up with some bassic measurements I might be tempted to have a go in 7mm.

Definitely no roller bearings on an Ugly, we have 57 and 62 at the Spa Valley, and after spending more hours working and working on 62 than I care to think about, I've yet to find any. In fact, rather than an upped spec, I'd say they were built down to a price. The frames are thinner than they should have been for a loco capable of such a power output, all the survivors have frame cracks around the driving axle, and all the boilers have given trouble as the inner firebox is a reduced thickness over what would be regarded as usual for the pressure of the boiler, not for one second unsafe, but with the consequence of a shorter working life. All done to keep weight and cost down, at roughly 56 tons in working order, they are a big loco for an 0-6-0ST!

 

Cheers, Mark

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1 hour ago, Mark Carne said:

all the survivors have frame cracks around the driving axle,


Hi Mark, 

 

Does that statement include RSH7671/51 JUPITER currently resident at the Colne Valley? I am lead to believe she had a somewhat more sedentary life out-stationed away from Corby and was in good condition when purchased from S&L. 

 

Paul A. 

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2 hours ago, 1whitemoor said:


Hi Mark, 

 

Does that statement include RSH7671/51 JUPITER currently resident at the Colne Valley? I am lead to believe she had a somewhat more sedentary life out-stationed away from Corby and was in good condition when purchased from S&L. 

 

Paul A. 

Paul,

 

I'd be surprised if it hasn't, but never say never. I know both of ours at the Spa have, as have the two at the GCRN.  57 has in the past, before it came to us, suffered a misguided attempt to weld on large reinforcing plates around the centre horn guides, which due to the amount of heat put into the job by welding, has actually caused the frame to end up banana shaped.

 

Mark.

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4 hours ago, Mark Carne said:

Definitely no roller bearings on an Ugly, we have 57 and 62 at the Spa Valley, and after spending more hours working and working on 62 than I care to think about, I've yet to find any. In fact, rather than an upped spec, I'd say they were built down to a price. The frames are thinner than they should have been for a loco capable of such a power output, all the survivors have frame cracks around the driving axle, and all the boilers have given trouble as the inner firebox is a reduced thickness over what would be regarded as usual for the pressure of the boiler, not for one second unsafe, but with the consequence of a shorter working life. All done to keep weight and cost down, at roughly 56 tons in working order, they are a big loco for an 0-6-0ST!

 

Cheers, Mark

The two on the Great Central [North] are stored requiring overhauls for these reasons. 

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18 hours ago, Mark Carne said:

Definitely no roller bearings on an Ugly, we have 57 and 62 at the Spa Valley, and after spending more hours working and working on 62 than I care to think about, I've yet to find any. In fact, rather than an upped spec, I'd say they were built down to a price. The frames are thinner than they should have been for a loco capable of such a power output, all the survivors have frame cracks around the driving axle, and all the boilers have given trouble as the inner firebox is a reduced thickness over what would be regarded as usual for the pressure of the boiler, not for one second unsafe, but with the consequence of a shorter working life. All done to keep weight and cost down, at roughly 56 tons in working order, they are a big loco for an 0-6-0ST!

 

Cheers, Mark

It is interesting to read this.

I remember being hauled on the Worth Valley by both Uglies and having an illicit footplate trip on 62. The side-to-side movement, especially as 62 'dug in' an Keighley bank, was impressive!!!

I know they had a mixed reception from the Worth Valley crews, but I loved them and would love to fire one!!!!

Postscript to this. I went to Agricultural college at Harpur Adams, with a lovely guy called Charley Mason.

We got talking and I found out his Dad was a regular driver on 62. Lost touch with the man and would have loved to have talked to his Dad!

                                                                                                                             Chris.

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Ok I admit it, I'm confused!

 

The Ugly is Robert Stephenson Hawthorn loco but most of the references to design e.g. 50550 & Austerity tanks seem to go back to Hunslet. But Hunslet were their own entity long after the Ugly's were produced...

 

And what happened to Leslie of Hawthorne Leslie?!

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1 hour ago, SR71 said:

Ok I admit it, I'm confused!

 

The Ugly is Robert Stephenson Hawthorn loco but most of the references to design e.g. 50550 & Austerity tanks seem to go back to Hunslet. But Hunslet were their own entity long after the Ugly's were produced...

 

And what happened to Leslie of Hawthorne Leslie?!

Basically, forget any reference to Hunslet with regard to these locos, they were developed by RSH for and in conjunction with Corby steel works, with a heritage traceable back through their Robert Stephenson, Hawthorn Leslie and via Corby, Manning Wardle roots. RSH had a range of 0-6-0 tank locos they produced post WW2, which included all possible variations of inside and outside cylinders, and saddle and side tanks.

 

And I ran a tape measure over 62 at Tunbridge Wells yesterday, 4 foot wheels and a 12 foot wheelbase, equally divided.

 

Cheers, Mark

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