Where should a train stop here?

[Coryton]

In the photo below, where should a full length train stop?

 

At the "ALL" sign, or the "FLU" one?

 

Not much difference in it, I concede, but why an FLU and an ALL sign?

 

[DY444]

I think there are other examples of this on the Brighton line too.  I have an idea that the ALL was erected first and then they found out there was some platforming issue with the 12 car sets so the FLU was lashed on afterwards and they didn't subsequently change the ALL to RLU.  I suspect therefore that the answer is that the 8 car units should stop at the ALL and the 12 cars at the FLU.  Does tend to make a nonsense of the whole thing though.

Edited February 24, 2019 by DY444

[hobbyhorse]

I was involved with a working group before retiring that looked at platform signage to try and reduce stopshorts and wrong side releases. What starts out as clear guidance for drivers can soon change as this photo shows. It's easy to blame drivers for mistakes but clearly no one has complained about this situation.

 

Simon 

[dhjgreen]

What is the 12 car stop sign for then?

[Coryton]

10 minutes ago, dhjgreen said:

What is the 12 car stop sign for then?

 

For anything that isn't a class 700 I think.

 

I have read that because of the decision to remove cab side windows, drivers were finding it hard to line up with traditionally placed markers and instead special ones were set up to be viewed through the front window.

 

Having said that, they often seem to end up in the same place as the traditional ones - perhaps that's at stations with platforms long enough that the exact placement isn't critical, and where it does matter they are placed more precisely.

 

I can't see anything wrong with different markers for different classes so long as drivers are aware. But two different signs for the same class and length doesn't seem particularly helpful.

 

Around Cardiff, car stop signs seem to be taken as a vague suggestion rather than anything to be taken too seriously anyway.

 

[John M Upton]

To add to the confusion, if you are terminating there to turn back you have to ignore the FLU, ALL and if there is one the RLU and roll up to the blue square with white T sign!

[DY444]

1 hour ago, Coryton said:

 

For anything that isn't a class 700 I think.

 

 

 

Correct.  Which in practice is 12 car 377s or 387s

[John M Upton]

At Angmering on the Coastway West there are three different sets of stop car markers for 700's, GWR 158's and everyone else!!

 

And they are all blue...

[eastwestdivide]

To this outsider, that photo looks a right mess in terms of human factors design/information overload - stop boards in different colours, different shapes, at different heights, all surrounded by a series of other safety notices.

Also, what's the head and shoulders silhouette for?

[Coryton]

49 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

Also, what's the head and shoulders silhouette for?

 

Samaritans "advert", I think.

[John M Upton]

As an aside, there are a few twelve car platforms (Worthing and unbelievably, Gatwick Airport to name two) where a twelve car Class 700 won't fit, it has to use SDO down to eleven.  Seems there is no such thing as a standard length carriage anymore...

[Coryton]

7 hours ago, John M Upton said:

As an aside, there are a few twelve car platforms (Worthing and unbelievably, Gatwick Airport to name two) where a twelve car Class 700 won't fit, it has to use SDO down to eleven.  Seems there is no such thing as a standard length carriage anymore...

 

Was there ever?

[Edwin_m]

This line is also used by 171s, which have significantly longer length per car. 

[DY444]

1 hour ago, Edwin_m said:

This line is also used by 171s, which have significantly longer length per car. 

 

They only run up to 10 cars though

[jim.snowdon]

It's all changed a lot since car stop markers were introduced, I believe, by the Southern Railway, to indicate to drivers where to stop so as to best position the train relative to the platform facilities. Now, it's not helped by the extent to which the usable length of the platform is reduced by the front end of the train having to stand a car length back from the signal so that the driver can see it now that cab side windows have become a thing of the past.

 

Jim 

[Coryton]

1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said:

It's all changed a lot since car stop markers were introduced, I believe, by the Southern Railway, to indicate to drivers where to stop so as to best position the train relative to the platform facilities. Now, it's not helped by the extent to which the usable length of the platform is reduced by the front end of the train having to stand a car length back from the signal so that the driver can see it now that cab side windows have become a thing of the past.

 

Jim 

 

Or is that the other way round?

 

I.e. drivers are now required to stop short of signals, so don't need to be able to see the signal from the side window?

[njee20]

16 hours ago, John M Upton said:

As an aside, there are a few twelve car platforms (Worthing and unbelievably, Gatwick Airport to name two) where a twelve car Class 700 won't fit, it has to use SDO down to eleven.  Seems there is no such thing as a standard length carriage anymore...

Really? I've been on loads of 12-car 700s through Gatwick and have never noticed them announcing that.