James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain. - Hornby's decline and struggle to survive.

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Emotional.

 

Just to whom was that video aimed? They spent that credit a while ago. Almost all of us want to see the company survive, but what was this about?

 

Judgement reserved.

 

Presumably mainly a PR exercise for the local press and councillors etc?  I have presumed that in reality they are moving back there in order to save money by getting a cheaper premises into which everybody will now fit.  And I wonder if they have had to pay staff any sort of expenses etc for moving to Sandwich so could there also be savings there?   So perhaps no bad thing to use it for local PR but I have more than a suspicion that the main reason will be financial rather than emotional.

[RJS1977]

22 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I’m not sure what the difference is between moulding on a chassis and separating the roof, instead of moulding on the roof and separating the chassis.

 

the only guess I could proffer is using the same chassis with multiple different bodies, as an economy of scale / reusability, something we are occasionally told doesn’t happen.

 

I don’t know about an AK47 but I’ve done a Lima 47 in 5 minutes, inc soldering.

 

I presume several different variations of (real) Mark 1 coach use the same underframe (TSO, BSK etc) but with different bodywork, and probably different ventilator arrangements on the roof. In which case Hornby's development/tooling costs for one standard underframe and separate bodies would be cheaper than individual body/chassis mouldings and individual roofs. 

[adb968008]

12 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Stripping and re-assembling a model does not reveal very much about labour cost. SK told me (in relation to the previous Hornby 'Schools') that it is the painting and printing processes that take the time, that are labour-intensive, and that have potentially the highest failure rate, all of which is a cost.  Generally speaking, the newer the model the more of those finishing processes it's likely to have. For instance, the new GWR non-corridor coaches with at least three printing processes just on the glazing. On the one hand processes like riveting or doing up brass screws might be eliminated, saving cost, while at the same time adding elaborate and critical printing processes. (CJL)

 

in an optimum basis plain black ISO sea containers should be the most cost effective thing to make, if not plain black plastic slabs.

But theres not much demand for that.

 

The point is every penny counts.

 

A lot of older stuff looks 100% better with a nice paint job, But as you say, thats expensive. Making new tooling costs lots of money, so there is a balance.

 

As long as they dont return to stickers on the side its not too bad.

Edited March 2, 2019 by adb968008

[The Johnster]

16 hours ago, barrymx5 said:

Perhaps they should try to learn something from Peco, whose Devon site is attractive and provides an enjoyable day (ok half day if you are not a model railway fan) for many visitors. 

Margate, even in it's heyday as a resort, was a day trip destination rather than a staying holiday one like Devon/Cornwall.  This is an important difference; stayers are committed to an area for a fortnight or so and have to find things to do on rainy days; Pecorama is very much predicated on this.  Day trippers stay at home if the weather looks bad.

 

I have a little experience volunteering on the Ffestiniog some years ago, and there it was reckoned that overcast or cool weather is worth a 30% increase in ticket sales in the high season, and a hot sunny day meant a 20% drop!   

[rockershovel]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Presumably mainly a PR exercise for the local press and councillors etc?  I have presumed that in reality they are moving back there in order to save money by getting a cheaper premises into which everybody will now fit.  And I wonder if they have had to pay staff any sort of expenses etc for moving to Sandwich so could there also be savings there?   So perhaps no bad thing to use it for local PR but I have more than a suspicion that the main reason will be financial rather than emotional.

 

Following this up on line, I saw a very carefully worded statement, to the effect that all staff displaced by the outsourcing of warehousing had been offered transfers to DHL, and there had been no overall job losses. It didn’t actually give any information about how many had accepted the transfer, and how many accepted redundancy. It also gave no information about the relative wages and conditions offered. 

 

Royal Mail published some similarly worded statements when they were abruptly sold off, and a plan to casualise large parts of the operation, rapidly implemented. However RM were a large, high-profile operation in the public domain and quite a lot of information appeared about the transition. It makes discouraging reading, particularly the part about the proportion of older workers with pension and redundancy entitlements who left, to be replaced with ZHC contract labour. 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

 

Following this up on line, I saw a very carefully worded statement, to the effect that all staff displaced by the outsourcing of warehousing had been offered transfers to DHL, and there had been no overall job losses. It didn’t actually give any information about how many had accepted the transfer, and how many accepted redundancy. It also gave no information about the relative wages and conditions offered. 

 

Royal Mail published some similarly worded statements when they were abruptly sold off, and a plan to casualise large parts of the operation, rapidly implemented. However RM were a large, high-profile operation in the public domain and quite a lot of information appeared about the transition. It makes discouraging reading, particularly the part about the proportion of older workers with pension and redundancy entitlements who left, to be replaced with ZHC contract labour. 

 

 

Not so much the warehousing - where things were stated as you say - but in respect of the move to Sandwich that would obviously have affected people in terms of travel to work both time and cost wise.

[CHAZ D]

On 01/03/2019 at 08:26, rockershovel said:

 

I don’t know that “those now retired, grew up with steam”. Steam ended in the U.K. fifty years ago, but it was gone from much of the country at least five years before that, and on the way out almost as soon as the Standard classes started appearing. I think you’d need to be in your mid-seventies at least, to have any real recollection of revenue earning steam traction in the U.K., and older than that in the US or some other parts of the world. 

 

My lifelong affection for standsrd and metre gauge railways in desert settings derives from my time in North Africa; but that was a diesel railway. The Colorado narrow gauge was already in preservation when I first saw it. The Welsh narrow gauge was in preservation before I was born. My first sight of U.K. steam was at the Bluebell line, although I can (just about) remember being taken to Kings X to see the last gasps of steam on the ECML. 

 

I was born in 1954 so not at 65 yet but I remember steam well in and around Reading certainly until 1965  When 5 yrs old I was fascinated by the Redhill, Guildford, Waterloo, Reading South line  Then by the Steam 1960 onwards at Reading General, & Sonning Cutting with the final Kings Castles on the expresses.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

To declare an interest in this leap back to a bygone era,there are even forum members who can remember....just....the final days of the “Big Four”.My first visible memory of a passenger train is of GWR bow ended suburban stock now released by Hornby .My next is of a short journey from Birmingham New Street to Wolverhampton High Level in Stanier LMS stock behind a Jubilee.My third is of a journey from Bournemouth Central to Southampton in ex LSWR corridor stock behind Arthur 30785 (also modelled by Hornby)  changing there into chocolate and cream Collett corridor stock behind Schools 30933 to Salisbury.This latter in August 1948 ,just months into BR. Spotting trips to Kings Cross In 1950/51 still gave you views of teak stock and even blue A1/A3 and A4.

 

 There is still the memory of a Britain long gone.

 

 

 

[rockershovel]

3 hours ago, CHAZ D said:

 

I was born in 1954 so not at 65 yet but I remember steam well in and around Reading certainly until 1965  When 5 yrs old I was fascinated by the Redhill, Guildford, Waterloo, Reading South line  Then by the Steam 1960 onwards at Reading General, & Sonning Cutting with the final Kings Castles on the expresses.

 

 

I remember steam services on the North London line, just about, and the outer reaches of the Underground and being taken to Kings X see the last gasps of steam on the ECML. I saw the last year of the 0-4-4Ts on the Isle of Wight, and I have memories of visiting an uncle at Ongar by steam traction, although I may be mistaken on that. I remember the last days of Cambridge shed, and the demolition of the coaling tower. 

 

Whether this constitutes “growing up with steam” is, I suppose, a matter of opinion; certainly by my active trainspotting days, roughly 1968 to 1972, steam was gone.

 

[adb968008]

 

I’ll break the mould..

 

i was born in 1975, I grew up with a passionate father who worked every Tuesday/Thursday night and every weekend on three preserved railways, which I tagged along from around 4 years old.

i visited dozens of preserved railways, Barry countless times, hundreds of rail tours, open days, LE movements etc, behind steam, often behind the scenes or places butter wouldn’t get.

Off my own volition and as a lucky side track of my career I’ve seen working steam in South Africa, Poland, China and seen preserved steam in Argentina, Brazil, USA, Canada, Australia, Thailand, Taiwan, Japan, France, Germany, Netherlands, Hungary, Finland, Spain, Egypt, Switzerland, i’m In my 40’s, so I consider myself as still growing up with steam...and diesel and electric.

 

can I join the “growing up with steam” club ?, even as a junior member ?

 

watching the Hornby video, it’s emotional but I don’t see revenue. Similarly I didn’t see many people in my age group in that video, indeed many are much older, which worries me about future.

 

That said on my exploits, I’ve often found people my own age out there, especially Poland / Germany where many are younger, indeed I have a nice network of international friends.

 

its nice they’ve ended refugee status and returned to the promised land, but they need to point to the future not just restore and re-run the past.

 

I don’t know if  Hornby would consider making its HO range more relevant, and considering the global market we live in, that’s not the traditional and well saturated Western Europe base it has traditionally been... how many people here have driven an ol49, pt47 or tkt tank, according to Wolsztyns website it’s 10k+ people worldwide... i’m sure a few would buy a model of one, Hornby already made the coaches for it a few years back in the Jouef range.

 

Sadly I think not, as looking at the team, I don’t think many of them have the exposure to 21st century enthusiasts and what it’s like for today’s enthusiasts, who can fly to Europe for less than a return to Manchester, to enjoy a Maybach Warship at 120kph. When you look at the new commissioners of OO gauge coming on stream, they are in many cases a generation younger than the traditional manufacturers, with enthusiast backgrounds.

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by adb968008

[RAF96]

Drifting well off original topic whilst waiting for this program to air...

 

I travelled the ECML from KIngs Cross to Durham/Newcastle/Sumderland and back as a 16 year old RAF apprentice going on leave during 1960-63 so I reckon I qualify as steam age.

 

I rode behind all the iconic Pacifics (Mallard, Blue Peter, FS, all the good names) and some exotics like Deltic and I definitely remember CotN as that was a pub on the A1 near Durham, but as I was into aircraft not trains they got just a cursory glance to see if it was a steamer and which one or was it a noisy diesel up front. Not once did I take a picture of these locos, and nowadays I regret such opportunities missed.

Edited March 3, 2019 by RAF96

[atom3624]

The memories stay with you, that's the main thing!!

 

Al.

[andytrains]

On 24/02/2019 at 23:12, melmerby said:

This is a proper May:

 

No this is the real May.

 

Hat coat door!

 

[Hroth]

You note how GREY they all look......

 

 

[The Johnster]

You've made me think of Teresa and 50 shades at the same time; aaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!

 

Go to your room, Hroth, and don't come back out until you've had a long hard think about what you've done.  I may need therapy for this...

[Hroth]

Only a few more days to the broadcast.  We'll eventually have some actual material to creatively misinterpret!

 

30 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

You've made me think of Teresa and 50 shades at the same time; aaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!

 

Go to your room, Hroth, and don't come back out until you've had a long hard think about what you've done.  I may need therapy for this...

 

Its your own fault.  Just be glad the Egregrious Mogg wasn't dragged in - he's equally colourless...

 

Ahem.....

[don]

Well i am doing my bit, gave up modelling British because i was fed up with comments from the rivet counting brigade at exhibitions and went North American, a revelation ,something completely new to read and learn about and most US modellers i know all use rule no1, however ,in the last twelve months and now they seem to be good runners i have acquired six  Hornby 0-4-0's!!!!! they do look out of place of course but i feel a plank coming on, should i see a doctor?

Don.

[The Johnster]

13 hours ago, don said:

Well i am doing my bit, gave up modelling British because i was fed up with comments from the rivet counting brigade at exhibitions and went North American, a revelation ,something completely new to read and learn about and most US modellers i know all use rule no1, however ,in the last twelve months and now they seem to be good runners i have acquired six  Hornby 0-4-0's!!!!! they do look out of place of course but i feel a plank coming on, should i see a doctor?

Don.

No, you should see a builder's merchant or recycle one from a skip.  Re rivet counters; nil illigitami carborundum.

[autocoach]

19 hours ago, don said:

Well i am doing my bit, gave up modelling British because i was fed up with comments from the rivet counting brigade at exhibitions and went North American, a revelation ,something completely new to read and learn about and most US modellers i know all use rule no1, however ,in the last twelve months and now they seem to be good runners i have acquired six  Hornby 0-4-0's!!!!! they do look out of place of course but i feel a plank coming on, should i see a doctor?

Don.

You haven't met the US rivet counting brigade.   

 

Then again I just attended a local Coast Division NMRA presentation yesterday by Jack Burgess on how over the last 30 years he has constantly refined his Yosemite Valley. Jack doesn't criticize our missing rivets. He just models that much better than the rest of us. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=EHGkZHLqALY&feature=youtu.be

 

And this is in a small space as California houses do not have vast basements and have modeling constraints similar to to most of the UK. 

 

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, autocoach said:

You haven't met the US rivet counting brigade.   

 

Then again I just attended a local Coast Division NMRA presentation yesterday by Jack Burgess on how over the last 30 years he has constantly refined his Yosemite Valley. Jack doesn't criticize our missing rivets. He just models that much better than the rest of us. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=EHGkZHLqALY&feature=youtu.be

 

And this is in a small space as California houses do not have vast basements and have modeling constraints similar to to most of the UK. 

 

I remember his article in RMC about multi level baseboards - must still be lurking up in the attic somewhere.  Fantastic to see it has all come to life., thanks for the link.

[GeoffAlan]

I last bought a 'Hornby' product in the late 1970s IIRC, and that was 'Hornby-Minitrix'. As an N gauge modeller since 1976 I am not catered for by Hornby. That said, I'd be sorry to see them go, my first 'model.railway' was Hornby 0 gauge tinplate, second hand with two identical 0-4-0 locos, one marked LNER, my mother's company*, and the other LMS, [Boo! Hiss!]. At 5 I got a Hornby-Dublo set mounted on two boards. I owe them a lot as they got me into playing trains railway modelling, something that over 65 years has proved to be a relaxing, if expensive, hobby.

 

I'd be gutted to see them close forever.

*She was a goods booking clerk who had her office destroyed by a 'lone raider' on the day she was off work.

Edited March 6, 2019 by GeoffAlan

[Captain Kernow]

So this programme is actually airing tomorrow evening for the first time?

 

[PaulRhB]

51 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

So this programme is actually airing tomorrow evening for the first time?

 

Yes, can you imagine what’ll happen on here if they cancel it because International Fly Swatting runs over causing “a change to our scheduled programmes”?

 

[Legend]

25 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes, can you imagine what’ll happen on here if they cancel it because International Fly Swatting runs over causing “a change to our scheduled programmes”?

 

 

Nah you'll be alright BBC4 doesn't tend to deviate from schedules that's only BBC1/BBC2 and since we've now got a BBC Scotland channel I now no longer have to dread the announcement on BBC1 "And now for viewers in Scotland.................."

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

So this programme is actually airing tomorrow evening for the first time?

 

 It would seem that it is scheduled to break cover tomorrow night.Though after seven pages on this thread in which every single aspect of Hornby navel-gazing seems to have been exhaustively raked,pitchforked and dissected infinitesmally one has to wonder whether actual viewing will be necessary