n gauge Catfish - Would you be interested in helping Revolution Trains crowdfund an N Gauge Catfish engineering ballast hopper?

[scottystitch]

This post mirrors a similar one placed on N Gauge Forum and is designed to provide Revolution Trains with an indication of the popularity and potential market for a Catfish Engineers' wagon, built to similar standards as their 35T Class B tank wagon, in N Gauge.  Whilst I have had relevant and meaningful conversations with Revolutions' principals about a potential model, this post and poll is all off my own back and so any errors are my own.

 

Brief description/history

 

After building several designs of small ballast hoppers in its early years, BR settled on the 19-ton ‘Catfish’ and 24-ton ‘Dogfish’ from 1955 onwards for its fleet of PW engineering hoppers in that size range.

The first of these to appear was a batch of Catfish built by Metro-Cammell to lot number 2682.  These are sometimes quoted as being built in 1953 but this is most likely the lot issue date, whilst actual construction took place in 1955.

Built to diagram 1/586, the Catfish had a shallow but fairly conventional looking hopper with a single chute discharging between the rails, unlike the later, and larger capacity, Dogfish which released it's load either side of the "four foot". At one end of the 14ft wheelbase wagon was a platform with a single door control wheel, the vacuum cylinder being mounted at the opposite end. 

Over the subsequent six years, a further five lots were built, all by Metro-Cammell and all to the same diagram number, although later deliveries had roller bearings (instead of plain) and Oleo buffers (instead of the self-contained type). Wagons that were overhauled or repaired would also have been upgraded in the same way. 

Livery was initially black, Indian (or Gulf ?) Red, evolving to olive drab and finally grey with a yellow top band (“dutch”).  Under TOPS these wagons were coded ZEV-A with design codes ZE500A-C being issued to cover minor differences

 

Out-with those mentioned above, the Catfish underwent very few changes during their long careers.  In the early 1990s at least four Catfish were recoded ZSV (design codes ZS152A/B) although the reason for this is not known (the ZSx code covers types such as crane runners, match wagons and brake force vehicles.)

By 1999 there were still 289 ZEVs listed on TOPS, although by this date Catfish were all either withdrawn or in ”no maintenance” pool use.  In 2001 the numbers in stock had dropped to 63 ZEV (all stored).

Diagram D1/586:

1955: 

Lot 2682/3 DB992531 - 650 
Lot 2775 DB992651-710 

1958: 

Lot 2929 DB993508 - 566 

 

236 Built

(These were all built with oil axle-boxes & self-contained buffers)

1960/61: 

Lots 3039/3331 (DB983376, 576/627 - 896) 

 

471 built

These had Oleo buffers & roller bearings. 

 

By my reckoning a total of 707 were built 


Catfish were originally allocated to the LMR, but from the late 60s spread onto the ScR & ER. Some were loaned to the SR in the 70s. Catfish worked with most other types of ballast hoppers, but were rarely seen in SR and WR areas.

Pros - Numerous examples produced, with minimal differences between batches
        - Four official liveries
        - Appropriate for layouts set from BR Early Crest through to late 90's post-privatisation
        - Very suitable for preserved railway layouts
        - Would compliment Dapol's Dogfish, NGS' Seacow, Revolution Sturgeon, DJM's Mermaid, NGS'/DJM's Shark (particularly the 
           shark since the Catfish drops ballast in between the rails), etc
        - Equally realistic in ones or twos in a train or in a long rake
        - Despite being similar to the Dapol Dogfish, the latter is out of production now and Dapol have said it is uneconomic for them 
           to assemble their current tooling the in current climate.

Cons - Struggling to think of any......... (watch this space)
          - Possibly too similar to the Dapol Dogfish (see above)


Best
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by scottystitch
Addition of Red livery information

[melmoth]

I think some of the 1960/61 lot were delivered in Gulf Red livery.

[Steven B]

Would you want Revolution to match the fidelity of the Dapol Dogfish (for a consistant look of train) or aim for something closer to today's standards?

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Steven B

[scottystitch]

49 minutes ago, Steven B said:

Would you want Revolution to match the fidelity of the Dapol Dogfish (for a consistant look of train) or aim for something closer to today's standards?

 

 

I think you'd always want to have the best model you could, so I'd be looking for something as detailed as the 35T Class B tanks and the forthcoming Sonic VEA

 

Dapol have said they wouldn't consider producing the Dogfish again,  with assembly costs as they are, so it might leave the Dogfish open for a new model from someone else if the Catfish sells. 

[Scottish Modeller]

8 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

Dapol have said they wouldn't consider producing the Dogfish again,  with assembly costs as they are, so it might leave the Dogfish open for a new model from someone else if the Catfish sells. 

Hi Scott,

 

That surprises me - they previously said that every batch they produced sold out.

 

With prices on eBay now reaching the £20/£25 each it shows there is still a demand for the model.

 

Thanks

Phil H

[scottystitch]

11 minutes ago, Scottish Modeller said:

Hi Scott,

 

That surprises me - they previously said that every batch they produced sold out.

 

With prices on eBay now reaching the £20/£25 each it shows there is still a demand for the model.

 

Thanks

Phil H

Hi Phil, thanks for your comment.

 

I was basing my statement on this quote from Joel on the Dapol Digest in May 2017. The exchange rate has improved, but probably not by enough?  Perhaps my choice of the word "again" was ill advised, in retrospect.......

 

"Joel Dapol commented

3rd May 2017, 09:06

The problem is that I had a look at he costs of producing another run of Dogfish a few months ago and they were really expensive with the exchange at £1 = £1.23. It may be something we can look at if the pound gets nearer to US$1.40 but until then it would be too risky and expensive for us :-("

.

Original thread here:  https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/freight-stock-aa/br-departmental-stock/2336-catfish-wagons

[njee20]

I'm always in 2 minds about whether a "no, I wouldn't" is a useful contribution to these polls, but I think it helps with the broader picture, so I've voted as such :-)

[definate maybe]

Hi. I would be interested in a few and have filled in the pole above.

Is this thread based on a conversation in which Revolution has advised it will be a goer if numbers add up or is this done with no interaction from them and so is more of a wishlist?

[scottystitch]

10 hours ago, definate maybe said:

Hi. I would be interested in a few and have filled in the pole above.

Is this thread based on a conversation in which Revolution has advised it will be a goer if numbers add up or is this done with no interaction from them and so is more of a wishlist?

It most certainly isn't wishlist. I have had conversations with Revolution, Mike in particular, and having a wee bit of experience with regards pitching new model ideas to them (NBL Type 2 Cl 21/29, 35T Class B, Cemflo), I'm aware that it can be useful for them to see a poll such as this. As stated above this posting has their blessing.

 

Mike has expressed his enthusiasm on the NGF thread and I'm confident that, if the N community can show that the numbers are there, whilst there are no guarantees in life, there is a genuine possibility of this appearing.

[scottystitch]

On 24/02/2019 at 19:37, melmoth said:

I think some of the 1960/61 lot were delivered in Gulf Red livery.

Further to this helpful comment, and following further research, I've added red to the livery list.

 

Larkin's "Civil Engineers Wagons - Volume 1" has images of DB992661 and DB983728 in "Indian Red" and also suggests that all of lot 3331 may have been delivered in red, although he doesn't elaborate on any tangible evidence for that.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I don't do N Gauge but I would buy 3 or 4 if someone did it in OO.