Pricing Puzzle - New LN v Old WC

[Right Away]

There would appear to be something slightly amiss with the Hornby pricing structure when the Lord Nelson class and the WC Pacific "Bideford" are compared.

 

The former, is being sold at what might be considered a reasonable price for a newly tooled, large steam locomotive. By comparison, the even higher price of the latter, utilising existing tooling is disproportionate for what is essentially just a different, albeit useful combination of unrebuilt engine and modified 4,500 gallon tender. A speedometer drive is all that's been added.

 

Not everybody's cup of tea, but for those devotees, there are a few "niceties" and improvements which might have vindicated the high cost to some degree, of this latest version of a West Country in its final guise. These could possibly have been -

• thinner smoke deflectors
• cylinder drain pipes
• factory fitted brake rigging (as opposed to owner fitting)
• omission of whistle cover, clack valve cover plus other "inspection" remedies - these were all noticeably prevalent on many engines in their later years

 

Appreciated the last listed "omissions" would not appeal to those who prefer pristine models but I feel their "inclusion" would have given a significant variance to an existing stud of WC/BBs.

 

This version will sell to the Bulleid fraternity, but to command the price being asked, it could and should have been a much improved model.

 

 

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

On 24/02/2019 at 09:14, Right Away said:

Should we be grateful for so much information that abounds today that enables such critical comparison of our models to the real thing?

 

My many memories of these little locomotives which always seemed to be so busy in our area appears to be well vindicated in this version by Hornby. Granted, there is always room for improvement but at what cost? Today's 4mm models when seen through my 1940s eyes at what might be considered "normal" viewing distances are generally most acceptable.

Deviations/omissions of detail in this scale have to be glaringly obvious to warrant criticism to the point of which I would hesitate to purchase. However, the coupling rod pins do stand out badly, appearing to be from an earlier generation of model building and their use is inexcusable. Having said that, I feel certain their appearance can be toned down with weathering and I would not reject the model on these grounds. 

 

For those of us who do not utilise scale couplings and freely run with the alternatives, it might not be too difficult to accept the minor compromises when it comes to very minute detail.

 

 

 

 

 

I see the logic of the question.  I am not familiar with these 'modern' steam locomotives.  One aspect I'd consider is the extent to which a different configuration and upgraded details require additional tooling slides, which will be expensive.  The costs of these may need to be amortised over an initial production run, which might be relatively small for all I know.

 

The reason that I quote your Terrier post of yesterday, slightly mischievously, is because, it seems to me that you know quite a bit about these Bulleids and would clearly notice detail inclusions or omissions and the know the correct details for each variation, whereas I would not have a clue, and I wondered if you viewed such knowledge as a blessing or a curse?!? 

 

I suppose this returns us to the issue of whether people prefer a couple of low-cost "generic" models, broadly representative of a couple of basic variants, or a more expensive model with a tooling suite that better copes with the loco identities on offer. I don't envy manufacturers in trying to strike a balance. 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Edwardian

[bigherb]

The WC is from the Sanda Kan era, might just more labour intensive to assemble,

[The Stationmaster]

3 minutes ago, bigherb said:

The WC is from the Sanda Kan era, might just more labour intensive to assemble,

In addition the Hornby Bulleid pacifics have in the past had something of a cult following and they sell and subsequently often command high secondhand prices.  So if you're a 'manufacturer' the logical thing to try is to charge what you believe the market will bear, and after all that is what all the r-t-r model railway companies do anyway

[Legend]

Might it have something to do with the different factories Hornby use as well . They might have secured a better deal on manufacture of LN ? 

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Legend said:

Might it have something to do with the different factories Hornby use as well . They might have secured a better deal on manufacture of LN ? 

Or the size of the production run.

 

if you recall two recent class 50’s had differing prices, both announced and released at the same time, the more complexed (nse) version was cheaper than the large logo blue one.

 

i’d imagine they make less Bidefords than LN currently, yet obviously enough to be viable at a price, even if its higher.

[MikeParkin65]

I was somewhat surprised that the airsmoothed WC has a higher rrp than the Britannia released at the same time. Surely more production processes in making the Brit!?  Hornby even use the Brit the catalogue as their example of how many seperate parts go into a ‘modern’ model. 

[Black 5 Bear]

7 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I was somewhat surprised that the airsmoothed WC has a higher rrp than the Britannia released at the same time. Surely more production processes in making the Brit!?  Hornby even use the Brit the catalogue as their example of how many seperate parts go into a ‘modern’ model.

Incredibly, the new airsmooth M/N is currently £179.99 RRP, where the W/C airsmooth Pacific is £184.99.

The M/N is superior in every way, especially with regards the valve gear.

This model is so good I bought 3 of them with the blue liveried EAC on pre-order.

 

[dibber25]

On 25/02/2019 at 10:02, bigherb said:

The WC is from the Sanda Kan era, might just more labour intensive to assemble,

That will, no doubt, be precisely the reason why the older model is more expensive. Adding a few little extra details may well require a complete retooling which will mean a still (much) higher end price. 

[Forester]

There is an almost insatiable market for the WC as many people renumber them - and there were so many.

Also the different crests are very seductive and people seem to want a fleet.

I get around this by having stacks (literally) of different bodies. 

As OP said, Bideford will sell. Also stand by for price rises on the Unrebuit MN.

 

I think the LN will take off also, judging by the number of Bachmanns which have been ofloaded on eBay over the last year.

[autocoach]

On 25/02/2019 at 01:42, Right Away said:

There would appear to be something slightly amiss with the Hornby pricing structure when the Lord Nelson class and the WC Pacific "Bideford" are compared.

 

The former, is being sold at what might be considered a reasonable price for a newly tooled, large steam locomotive. By comparison, the even higher price of the latter, utilising existing tooling is disproportionate for what is essentially just a different, albeit useful combination of unrebuilt engine and modified 4,500 gallon tender. A speedometer drive is all that's been added.

 

Not everybody's cup of tea, but for those devotees, there are a few "niceties" and improvements which might have vindicated the high cost to some degree, of this latest version of a West Country in its final guise. These could possibly have been -

• thinner smoke deflectors
• cylinder drain pipes
• factory fitted brake rigging (as opposed to owner fitting)
• omission of whistle cover, clack valve cover plus other "inspection" remedies - these were all noticeably prevalent on many engines in their later years

 

Appreciated the last listed "omissions" would not appeal to those who prefer pristine models but I feel their "inclusion" would have given a significant variance to an existing stud of WC/BBs.

 

This version will sell to the Bulleid fraternity, but to command the price being asked, it could and should have been a much improved model.

 

 

 

 

 

How about an original cab version WC.   Will have to get RT's etched original cab and bash a bit to get my 1947 WC's.