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Thanks for the feedback,

 

So If I understand it, it's standard fare + an on board premium, other than a nicer seat / appearance it was any other service train ?

Was it a faster service ?or guaranteed seat like 19th century club trains were ?

So food / bar was extra ?

 

I'm trying to put that into modern context ?

 

 

 

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Thanks for the feedback,

 

So If I understand it, it's standard fare + an on board premium, other than a nicer seat / appearance it was any other service train ?

Was it a faster service ?or guaranteed seat like 19th century club trains were ?

So food / bar was extra ?

 

The supplement 7/6, what was the standard fare ?

 

I'm trying to put that into modern context ?

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Thanks for the feedback,

 

So If I understand it, it's standard fare + an on board premium, other than a nicer seat / appearance it was any other service train ?

Was it a faster service ?or guaranteed seat like 19th century club trains were ?

So food / bar was extra ?

 

I'm trying to put that into modern context ?

 

 

 

 

It was only 'faster' in the context that it ran non stop between London and Brighton - Its top speed was officially no more than the 4LAVs, 6PUL, PAN units which provided ordinary services on the route from 1933.

 

Effectively all the Pullman supplement simply got you a nicer seat / more richly decorated carriage (and kept you from mingling too much with the 'lower classes') plus an at seat service of snacks and light refreshments - the 60 minute journey time between London and Brighton preventing anything too extravagant being provided (and is why the original kitchens are far too small to support the charter style use of the restored unit.

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8 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

There were some articles a couple of years ago in one of the magazines about the project.   Much was made of how rough riding the original sets were due to the type of bogies they used.   The rebuilt ones all have a more modern design.  I can't remember if they are the B4 type or Commonwealth but it should be a great improvement.  I never travelled on them but remember watching them going through Clapham Junction in 71 when I was living in London.

 

 

The restored units have had the bogies (plus all the underfame equipment and traction gear) replaced with equivalents from scrapped CIG / VEP units.

 

Thus the comfort level will depend on what you thought of the 1960s BR(S) units.....

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I saw it a few weeks ago, it looks very odd with full compliant lighting, I think it would have looked better with a single standard headlamp and a yellow panel

It has a single 63 stock jumper but can't remember if it has high level pipes 

It also has electro star horns so loosing the characteristic southern   'parp' horns .

I may see it again on Wednesday 

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1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Thanks for the feedback,

 

So If I understand it, it's standard fare + an on board premium, other than a nicer seat / appearance it was any other service train ?

Was it a faster service ?or guaranteed seat like 19th century club trains were ?

So food / bar was extra ?

 

The supplement 7/6, what was the standard fare ?

 

I'm trying to put that into modern context ?

 

 

 

The BB supplement was 2/6d, or 12.5p in new (post 14.2.71) money. The fare was whatever you paid at the ticket office  - single, ordinary return, Cheap Day. My recollection is that the conductor walked through the five cars with a ticket machine a bit like a Gibson A14, dropping a ticket on the table by each passenger, and then walking back collecting the money. Of course there were no gangways between units, so a conductor was required in each 5-car.  In those days guards did not routinely handle fares, and the rule book required them to be observing the running of the train instead. 

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9 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Or the traditional Southern Railway air whistle.

 

Jim

 

One of the Hastings power cars has horns and the whistle,

I wonder if the belle has got the capability to work in multi with a Hastings set?

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3 hours ago, russ p said:

 

One of the Hastings power cars has horns and the whistle,

I wonder if the belle has got the capability to work in multi with a Hastings set?

 

Given the restored unit is, from a traction and controls point of view, basically a CIG, the BB working multiple with other units will similarly be restricted to things that could work with a 4CIG

 

I understand that although the fittings on the ends might appear similar, the Souther Regions DEMU fleet used a different control setup from the EMU fleet and (save for a single late 1980s refurbishment) they were thus incompatible with each other.

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8 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Given the restored unit is, from a traction and controls point of view, basically a CIG, the BB working multiple with other units will similarly be restricted to things that could work with a 4CIG

 

I understand that although the fittings on the ends might appear similar, the Souther Regions DEMU fleet used a different control setup from the EMU fleet and (save for a single late 1980s refurbishment) they were thus incompatible with each other.

Certainly, the 33s were capable of multiple unit working with both the CIG/VEP type units and with the 73s, which were themselves also capable of MU working with the electric units, and from what I had been told in the past, the DEMUs and EP EMU fleets were capable of working in multiple, although I am not aware of it happening in practice.

 

Jim

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Weren't the tadpole units an example of DEMU stock working with EPB stock? I don't know what modifications were made, but if they were theoretically compatible that ought to have been very much a plug and play. Perhaps with an "Engine Start" button (and other related signals) being added to the EPB cab.

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The only DEMU authorised to fully multiple with EMU stock was cl. 205 1111, as it had been modified to do so.

Otherwise DEMUs were not to multiple with locos or EMUs

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8 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Weren't the tadpole units an example of DEMU stock working with EPB stock? I don't know what modifications were made, but if they were theoretically compatible that ought to have been very much a plug and play. Perhaps with an "Engine Start" button (and other related signals) being added to the EPB cab.

The EPB driver trailers in the Tadpoles had modified controls to allow them to work with the DEMU vehicles.  

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On 05/03/2019 at 00:01, jim.snowdon said:

Certainly, the 33s were capable of multiple unit working with both the CIG/VEP type units and with the 73s, which were themselves also capable of MU working with the electric units, and from what I had been told in the past, the DEMUs and EP EMU fleets were capable of working in multiple, although I am not aware of it happening in practice.

 

Jim

 

DEMUs could not work with EP EMUs, EDs, and 33/1s.  Although the DEMUs had the 27 way jumper they were wired differently and were thus incompatible.  Iirc the difference was because the DEMUs had 7 power notches compared to the 4 in the EMU system.

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Correct, the DEMUs could not work in multiple with electric stock or any locos. they can be hauled by any loco in emergency, or if used in service, hauled by an air braked loco.

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On 04/03/2019 at 19:06, phil-b259 said:

 

The restored units have had the bogies (plus all the underfame equipment and traction gear) replaced with equivalents from scrapped CIG / VEP units.

 

Thus the comfort level will depend on what you thought of the 1960s BR(S) units.....

Well the CIGs were OK on the Brighton Line but the VEPs  - I think I'd rather ride on a Northern Pacer !  And that was when they wee about a week old.

I did go on the Brighton Belle just a few days before the end.  Loved it even though it was in that vile grey and blue.  Inside hadn't changed and neither had the service.

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1 hour ago, Middlesea John said:

Well the CIGs were OK on the Brighton Line but the VEPs  - I think I'd rather ride on a Northern Pacer !  And that was when they wee about a week old.

Yet the CIGs and VEPs shared the same running gear and were about the same weight. I used to commute a lot on VEPs and the ride was perfectly acceptable, rather better than the SUBs and EPBs. On the other hand, the riding qualities of the 1930s era Southern electric stock at higher speeds weren't exactly anything to write home about.

 

Jim

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About 50 years ago, one of the prototype mags, either Railway Magazine or Railway World, did a retrospective on the demise of the Nelson stock on the Portsmouth Direct, their last mainline stronghold. The antics of the regular imbibers in the Griddle car were described as “swigging away in waltz-time”, which rather supports the view that this generation of stock was not sophisticated in ride quality. 

 

The other snippet I recall from this article is more - er - fundamental. One regular was convinced that the fierce heaters below the seats provided the best cure for piles he had ever come across. 

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My memory of the VEPs are more to do with noise than comfort.  The windows would rattle after about a quarter of an hour in service.  Plus they were plain ugly compared with CIGs and CEPs.  

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Only travelled on it once back in the fifties very rough ride food was not that brilliant  hope that the new one is better.

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On 24/11/2019 at 22:53, lmsforever said:

Only travelled on it once back in the fifties very rough ride food was not that brilliant  hope that the new one is better.

I suspect it will be and at a premium price as well.

P

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1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

I suspect it will be and at a premium price as well.

P

 

With B5 Bogies and a CIG chassis underneath it, I hope it does! 

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12 minutes ago, surfsup said:

 

With B5 Bogies and a CIG chassis underneath it, I hope it does! 

Don't think those are likely to improve the quality of the food !!?!

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13 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

Don't think those are likely to improve the quality of the food !!?!

But your Martinis  will be well shaken and not stirred.

 

Jamie

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