Plan critique required - LBSC, early 1914

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Getting back to the track plan and facilities, I can only echo others remarks that the timber lock up shed is the way to go, and as far as I recell, all of them were mono-pitched, like your model.

As a bit of inspiration, Chris Nevard's photos of my Fittleworth layout may be of interest, as well as an original view. (His copyright)

 

A simple track plan, but, unusually, the station only opened in 1889, many years after the bracnh to Midhurst opened.

And, to provide an unusual variation, you might consider Rudgwick, another small station, platforms only 260 feet long - 3' 6" in 4mm.  What makes it different is that the main line veers away from the platform, with the access to the goods yard running straight ahead. (Note the shiny rails) That would confuse viewers! 

Photo from the Rudgwick Ptreservation Society website

Oddly, there is no run-round loop for the yard, so presumably shunting only took place by south bound trains. The wagon turntable with long sidings was unusual, and perhaps there was a strong horse available to move wagons.

If you still want your cattle dock on the other side of the line, perhaps you could take a lead from within the goods yard and cross the main line with a diamond, removing the need for the single slip.

That’s a rather lovely goods yard.

 

On most branch lines, and indeed at most small stations, the goods yard was only shunted in one direction, usually the trailing direction. Empty coal wagons, for example, would be picked up and full ones dropped off. The empties and any loads picked up on the outbound route to the terminus (assuming that the pick up goods originated elsewhere) and run round there, and simply put onto a spare road until the train was made up for departure. Similarly, loads to be dropped off at any stations facing the other way would have been put to one side, then arranged for easy shunting on the return trip. Running round not required.

 

My interpretation of Fittleworth is that there isn’t a run round loop, at least not intentionally, but two different access routes to the loading dock, providing greater flexibility in accessing it.

 

Modellers are frequently looking for extra operation on their layouts. Railwaymen, and the companies they worked for, were looking for the opposite.

[dseagull]

Tonight's proposal...

 

 

The goods yard is now single ended, accessible for trains from the Seaford direction (thanks Simon!). Anything which needs to come in from the other direction would work into Seaford (or Newhaven) and then out again on the next train. I was struggling to fit the pointwork for a second siding (for the cattle dock) in, and then chanced upon Pentreath, on the LNWR's Red Wharf Bay branch in Anglesey. This old OS Map shows a very similar arrangement - single line, with a headshunt including a three way turnout. To give an idea of the platform length, that's a 4MT 2-6-4T tank with three Ratio Midland length coaches. 

 

Not entirely convinced by the right hand side scenically yet, I think it needs 'something' to balance the structures on the left, and the river has gone, but the station yard is bigger, allowing for carts to turn, and the dock has been retained which is a big bonus. 

[Nearholmer]

Can I suggest thinking about the access from the two roads/lanes.

 

as I’ve pointed out elsewhere on RMWeb, LR’s often arranged their yards/stations with more than one entrance, presumably to minimise the area of land that had to buy, so you might want to put a gate from each lane, perhaps one leading direct onto the loading bank, allowing carts to travel along the bank. That might also allow the bank siding to become longer. If I get a moment I will sketch it later.

 

A timber-framed water tower in the right foreground?

 

found a scrap of paper in the car ..... the proportions are all wrong, but you get the idea?

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Nearholmer

[phil-b259]

On ‎01‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 00:03, Nearholmer said:

Looking in the London Gazette at the original 1886 Act, I think that the original plan was:

 

- to clamber up from Eastbourne to East Dean;

 

- use the spur valley on the East of the Cuckmere (the one I've shown on the LR route) to get down to the Cuckmere Valley;

 

-  go up the spur valley on the west of the Cuckmere, then cross the ridge NW of the High & Over in tunnel; and,

 

- come down into Newhaven and Seaford by way of another spur valley and a junction with the LBSCR at East Blatchington (i.e. near The Tide Mills);

 

A very circuitous route through virtually unpopulated country, but avoiding the scarp face of the High & Over.

 

This then seems to have been amended in 1888, to cut out the East Dean bit, and come down the CV from a junction with the LBSCR somewhere between Berwick and Polegate.

 

The 1891/2 Act seems to be a throwing in of the towel, abandoning the route and repealing previous Acts, after a load of wrangling with property owners about damage to their interests.

 

I do know that the key reason the CV never got a railway, or defaced by cement works, was that the landowner was opposed to such things........ good job, really, because it has been preserved as a delightful spot as a result!

 

 

The East Dean History Society published a booklet on the various railway proposals to serve the area last year.

 

see https://www.edflhg.uk/booklets (Branch Line to Birling Gap)

 

 

 

 

[phil_sutters]

For a tour of the Cuckmere valley may I recommend the Cuckmere Rambler bus, which runs a circular route from Seaford Library (or Morrisons) both within a few minutes walk of Seaford station, down to Exceat, alight for the Seven Sisters Country Park visitors' centre, on via Litlington, Lullington, and Wilmington to Berwick railway station and then back to Seaford via Alfriston & High & Over. The scenery is delightful and there are some beautiful old Downland churches along the route. The service resumes after its winter break on 30th March. It runs hourly on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays. The buses are driven by volunteers, but it is a public service bus - route 47, so OAP passes are accepted - should you have one. https://www.cuckmerebuses.org.uk/47.htm 

 

By the way, place no reliance on the  South Downs National Park for bus information. E.g. they show the 13X Brighton to Eastbourne as hourly, 9 times a day, daily. During the summer from June to early-September is is daily but with only three buses each way at three & a half or four hour intervals. Out of season it runs on Sundays and Bank holidays only, at the same intervals, except for the Easter weekend when it does run hourly. Given that they are supposed to be promoting the use of public transport to and though the Park, I find their reluctance to update their travel information very disappointing. I have had several run-ins with them on the subject.

Sorry to mention buses but unfortunately the LBSCR never made it down the Cuckmere valley, although it crossed the river a bit to the east of Berwick station.

[dseagull]

32 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

For a tour of the Cuckmere valley may I recommend the Cuckmere Rambler bus, which runs a circular route from Seaford Library (or Morrisons) both within a few minutes walk of Seaford station, down to Exceat, alight for the Seven Sisters Country Park visitors' centre, on via Litlington, Lullington, and Wilmington to Berwick railway station and then back to Seaford via Alfriston & High & Over. The scenery is delightful and there are some beautiful old Downland churches along the route. The service resumes after its winter break on 30th March. It runs hourly on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays. The buses are driven by volunteers, but it is a public service bus - route 47, so OAP passes are accepted - should you have one. https://www.cuckmerebuses.org.uk/47.htm 

 

By the way, place no reliance on the  South Downs National Park for bus information. E.g. they show the 13X Brighton to Eastbourne as hourly, 9 times a day, daily. During the summer from June to early-September is is daily but with only three buses each way at three & a half or four hour intervals. Out of season it runs on Sundays and Bank holidays only, at the same intervals, except for the Easter weekend when it does run hourly. Given that they are supposed to be promoting the use of public transport to and though the Park, I find their reluctance to update their travel information very disappointing. I have had several run-ins with them on the subject.

Sorry to mention buses but unfortunately the LBSCR never made it down the Cuckmere valley, although it crossed the river a bit to the east of Berwick station.

 

Thanks Phil, I see the Cuckmere buses regularly (in fact one of the Hailsham Town Buses goes past my front door a few times a week), however at 34, I think an OAP pass might be pushing it  

 

Funny you should mention churches...

 

Nearholmer's sketch and valued information about the likelihood of more than one entrance to the yard got me thinking. I also had been pondering adding a water crane, something which would most probably have been needed given the gradients, and a tower would be a nice focal point at the front of the layout. 

 

So;

 

 

Amendments from previous plans

 

• Station building replaced from dimensions of L-Cut LC4 to Peco Wooden Station building
• Water Tower added. Platform water crane represented by purple circle.
• House removed from main road and added to lane (part relief but with space for a bit of a cottage garden)
• End of school replaced by end of Church. It is noticeable from Google Streetview that the end of church is close to the road, and old postcards appear to confirm that this has been the case for many years. The actual entrance to the church would be just offscene down the small lane next to post office
• Placeholder cattle dock removed and replaced with more realistically sized drawing. Lighter grey represents a ramp up to the pens. 
• I really quite fancy a row of blackthorn in full 'Blackthorn Winter (second photo down)' blossom, so have added these at the top of the plan.

I think, almost entirely thanks to the very kind assistance I have received, we are finally getting somewhere. Certainly a lot happier with the plan from the original earlier in the week but still very much welcoming comment!

 

[webbcompound]

If you put an S bend into the road on the right side, so it leaves the scene closer to the railway, and put the church on a bit of a slant you could probably get at least the whole side of the building in, if not the whole building.

 

[dseagull]

12 hours ago, webbcompound said:

If you put an S bend into the road on the right side, so it leaves the scene closer to the railway, and put the church on a bit of a slant you could probably get at least the whole side of the building in, if not the whole building.

 

 

Thanks - I have slightly adjusted the road layout as suggested to have more of the church modelled, but wanted to keep the same orientation as now. Introducing a bend into the road is a great shout, and certainly lets me fit more of the church in.

 

 

 

[burgundy]

Sorry to be pedantic, but does the orientation of the church fit in with the geography of your layout? The chancel and altar should be at the east end and the nave with the main door should be at the west. 

Best wishes 

Eric 

[dseagull]

Good point Eric! - Obviously rotated the wrong way when copied across from a previous file.

 

 

With a slight adjustment, a signal box fits as well near the level crossing.

[phil_sutters]

The good old Airfix/Dapol church could make quite a reasonable representation of Litlington church, albeit with random stone rather than flint. The spire would need to be added. It starts as square and then transitions to octagonal - a bit tricky to get right. I know as I made a 1/32 (+/-) scale model of our church, for the Sunday school, and it has a similar spire.

Edited March 4, 2019 by phil_sutters
Additional photo

[Nearholmer]

Good idea!

 

And, church alignment is by no means a simple subject. You might want to settle down in an armchair, with a cup of coffee, to read this, because it isn’t short! https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/2769023.pdf