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This is a follow on to the Hincaster Junction thread. Windermere is the centrepiece of the layout and as it now well on the way I thought it better to start a new thread. The position is that  all the tracks are in, all are wired up and all the points have motors fitted. All 3 major sites are functioning. Control is via a Railmaster system with all the locos dcc fitted with a wide variety of decoders. Some of these are sound fitted. I found the system a pain to set up but now I have got used to it. It suits me to use a mouse to control the layout with a reasonable size screen. So far no diesel has sullied the rails but one will arrive fairly soon. 

 

My main focus is to get the scenery at Windermere to a reasonable state. The goods  yards are well underway and the turntable in and functioning. It makes a good spot to pose locos for photographs. I have found comparison photos with the real thing a good way to improve standards on the model. My main issue is to finally sort out the gravity shunting to run round. Windermere had no proper run round facilities after pre grouping days and used gravity shunting for all trains. There were the inevitable accidents the last in 1962. Its proving difficult to find out how the goods train were actually worked into the station. It seem the normal method was on arrival to stop at the home signal by the signal box. Uncouple the engine which then ran forward onto the turntable. The wagons were then gravitated into the yard. But I cant find out if it was in one rake or in groups with a shunter in attendance. If its in groups that makes replicating it much harder on the model. Apparently there was a lot of noise from clashing buffers!

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I am having real difficulty discovering how goods trains were received in reality with some contradictory memories. Its sad but a reality check  that nobody seems to be still alive who knows for sure. How on earth the practice of gravitating all trains escaped for so long given that as late as 1962 a rake of coaches went through the end wall and across the car park. 

 

Mike

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Merlin:

When we operate Windermere (as part of Lostock Junction) http://www.theplatelayers.org/members.htm  we are lucky enough to have the crossovers at the station end of the platforms. We either bring the goods trains in on the center road or platform 1 and then pull it back along the Up main to get it into the yard using the yard shunter.  With luck we can turn the engine from the goods in the time the yard takes to shunt the wagons.

There is another operation which is a light engine movement to Oxenholme where the loco can be turned. I'm not sure why but at some point the turntable at Windermere may have been too small or removed.

Mike's model of Windermere is apparently scale length but the loco facilities are much larger and the station end crossovers were moved to give more room at the ends. Not sure about the goods yard, but I think the sidings match the prototype.

 

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On ‎07‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 03:32, BR60103 said:

Merlin:

When we operate Windermere (as part of Lostock Junction) http://www.theplatelayers.org/members.htm  we are lucky enough to have the crossovers at the station end of the platforms. We either bring the goods trains in on the center road or platform 1 and then pull it back along the Up main to get it into the yard using the yard shunter.  With luck we can turn the engine from the goods in the time the yard takes to shunt the wagons.

There is another operation which is a light engine movement to Oxenholme where the loco can be turned. I'm not sure why but at some point the turntable at Windermere may have been too small or removed.

Mike's model of Windermere is apparently scale length but the loco facilities are much larger and the station end crossovers were moved to give more room at the ends. Not sure about the goods yard, but I think the sidings match the prototype.

 

I have also included release crossovers near the buffers as I think they may be necessary for reliable operation. I have been experimenting with gravity trains . Do have a look at the railway facebook page . https://www.facebook.com/Windermere.Hincaster.Junction.a.00.Model.Railway/   I would like to get it to work with gravity  even if only for some movements as it was such a unique feature which would never be allowed now and had the inevitable accidents.

 

It needs quite a lot of further work to get gravity shunting to work consistently and even then I suspect will only work with set rakes. I can get the basic 4 coach set to stop in the right place but the wagons stop a bit short in the yard and it depends on which wagons. I  have "brakes " on some coaches and wagons to slow them down.  I have now made all the baseboard legs adjustable individually> this allows for quite precise adjustment . A set rake does seem to stop in the same place each time. the problem is different rakes stop in different places. This is where experiments with " brakes" come into play. 

 

 

The procedure for running round passenger trains is clear. The train ran into the station and the passengers got off. The train engine then reversed the train back out to the home signal> The engine was detached and ran forward onto the turntable. The coaches were then run by gravity into whichever platform they were to depart from or into the lakeside yard for storage. 

 

 

I believe that the following happened with goods trains. The train stopped at the home signal outside the station just beyond the signal box. The engine detached and then ran forward to the turntable. The wagons were then gravitated into the lakeside yard. An engine then coupled up to the Kendal end and pulled out of the station yard onto the up line towards Kendal. It stopped and reversed into the goods yard. There are conflicting reports but general agreement that the goods trains stopped outside the station and were never gravitated into the platforms. Its pretty clear that for many years no wagons were unloaded in the lakeside yard. Some say they wagons were not run into the lakeside yard but that's the only place they could go. The track layout just does not allow an arriving train to run into the goods yard.

 

The photographic evidence shows no pictures of wagons in the platforms. There are a few pictures of wagons in the Lakeside yard and plenty of pictures of engines shunting in the goods yard.  It would be nice to see some clear photos or videos to answer the question once and for all. 

 

The sequence below shows how I think goods train were dealt with

 

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14 minutes ago, Merlin242 said:

I have also included release crossovers near the buffers as I think they may be necessary for reliable operation. I have been experimenting with gravity trains . Do have a look at the railway facebook page . https://www.facebook.com/Windermere.Hincaster.Junction.a.00.Model.Railway/   I would like to get it to work with gravity  even if only for some movements as it was such a unique feature which would never be allowed now and had the inevitable accidents.

 

It needs quite a lot of further work to get gravity shunting to work consistently and even then I suspect will only work with set rakes. I can get the basic 4 coach set to stop in the right place but the wagons stop a bit short in the yard and it depends on which wagons. I  have "brakes " on some coaches and wagons to slow them down.  I have now made all the baseboard legs adjustable individually> this allows for quite precise adjustment . A set rake does seem to stop in the same place each time. the problem is different rakes stop in different places. This is where experiments with " brakes" come into play. 

 

 

The procedure for running round passenger trains is clear. The train ran into the station and the passengers got off. The train engine then reversed the train back out to the home signal> The engine was detached and ran forward onto the turntable. The coaches were then run by gravity into whichever platform they were to depart from or into the lakeside yard for storage. 

 

 

I believe that the following happened with goods trains. The train stopped at the home signal outside the station just beyond the signal box. The engine detached and then ran forward to the turntable. The wagons were then gravitated into the lakeside yard. An engine then coupled up to the Kendal end and pulled out of the station yard onto the up line towards Kendal. It stopped and reversed into the goods yard. There are conflicting reports but general agreement that the goods trains stopped outside the station and were never gravitated into the platforms. Its pretty clear that for many years no wagons were unloaded in the lakeside yard. Some say they wagons were not run into the lakeside yard but that's the only place they could go. The track layout just does not allow an arriving train to run into the goods yard.

 

The photographic evidence shows no pictures of wagons in the platforms. There are a few pictures of wagons in the Lakeside yard and plenty of pictures of engines shunting in the goods yard.  It would be nice to see some clear photos or videos to answer the question once and for all. 

 

The sequence below shows how I think goods train were dealt with

 

IMG_5893.JPG

IMG_5895.JPG

IMG_5896.JPG

IMG_5899.JPG

IMG_5904 (2).jpg

 

Wow, some nice modelling and very informative working practices. :) 

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Merlin:

We have one minor major problem with gravity shunting -- due to considerations of layout construction, the station tilts the wrong way.

Your station tracks look pretty familiar, though.

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bearing in mind that pre grouping times siding number 1 was the place that Elterwater put Gunpowder wagons in for unloading/loading some shunting took place on that side of the station.  Nciktoix built a model of Windermere in LNWR times many years ago. Parking the gunpowder vans net to a loco siding with the odd pile of ash used to get funny comments

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On ‎11‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 15:34, Barry O said:

bearing in mind that pre grouping times siding number 1 was the place that Elterwater put Gunpowder wagons in for unloading/loading some shunting took place on that side of the station.  Nciktoix built a model of Windermere in LNWR times many years ago. Parking the gunpowder vans net to a loco siding with the odd pile of ash used to get funny comments

I can imagine the comments but it was right. In those days there were release crossovers in the platforms to allow for running round. I suspect they were taken out after the gunpowder traffic was lost. Sending rakes of wagons by gravity into gunpowder wagons is not a great idea. 

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Working my way through the loco stud adding details and changing bogie wheels for the Alan Gibson version.  The Gibson wheels makes a big difference to the appearance and is well worth the effort. The comparison can be seen below> hopefully the new version from Hornby will have a much better effort. 

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Steady progress working through more of the locos for Windermere. I must stop buying things off ebay though  as soon as I  finish one another arrives.

But you can never have enough 2-6-4T's and Black 5's. I am gradually renumbering them to local sheds especially Carnforth, Tebay, Green Ayre  and Oxenholme.

I am impressed with the laisdcc decoders with the large stay alives. They fit easily into the Fowler 2-6-4T's and without too much trouble in to the Stanier variant. 

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A slight diversion into the past and in 0 scale. The late lamented Fort Fahy & Invercliffe Railway was George Hinchcliffe's opus and I helped do some of the work. The full scale model of Glenfinnan viaduct resided at Hest Bank and still hopefully exists even though the tracks have gone. Casting it was a major operation.  I found some photos which show a bit of the scale. Later it was extended from Invercliffe station shown in the photo with double track . With operation by block bells you never new what loco train might turn up even if you knew the type of train. 

Invercliffe2.jpg

glenfinnan.jpg

invercliffe.jpg

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I am slowly working through the loco stud renumbering and adding details. This is the (in)famous 2-8-2 9F which ran very briefly with the last set of rods off from Carnforth before withdrawal around June 1968. I am very tempted to do the same but it will have to be a lot lot dirtier

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I am delighted that I have manged to get hold of the LMSR rating plan for Windermere station via ebay even if it cost a bit more than I would have liked.

Typically its arrived just as I have finished the goods shed and shows that I guessed wrong about some of the inside layout. Its to a 40 feet to one inch scale and will make the rest of the station much easier to model. 

interestingly it shows  an engine release crossover in platform 3. This supposedly went in the 1920's and from then onwards all shunting was by gravity.

station plan.jpg

goods shed1.jpg

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On 09/05/2019 at 12:03, Merlin242 said:

A slight diversion into the past and in 0 scale. The late lamented Fort Fahy & Invercliffe Railway was George Hinchcliffe's opus and I helped do some of the work. The full scale model of Glenfinnan viaduct resided at Hest Bank and still hopefully exists even though the tracks have gone. 

 


When I was hunting for a house for my parents 5 years ago, I looked at a bungalow in Hest Bank which was for sale. Much to my surprise there was a model of Glenfinnan viaduct in the garden.  I managed to trace much of the trackbed of the garden railway.  Unfortunatly a conservatory had been erected that would have made relaying the track impossible.  While the railway trackbed was an attraction and I could have used it for my LGB equipment, the property was not suitable for my parents.  I don’t know if the model viaduct still exists.

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On 05/02/2020 at 22:47, ColinK said:


When I was hunting for a house for my parents 5 years ago, I looked at a bungalow in Hest Bank which was for sale. Much to my surprise there was a model of Glenfinnan viaduct in the garden.  I managed to trace much of the trackbed of the garden railway.  Unfortunatly a conservatory had been erected that would have made relaying the track impossible.  While the railway trackbed was an attraction and I could have used it for my LGB equipment, the property was not suitable for my parents.  I don’t know if the model viaduct still exists.

That was the location at Long Drive in Shady lane. The railway was closed there and lifted around 1997. The stations which were in the garage were saved and moved to an indoor layout at  Galgate.  George died in 2011 and the railway moved again.  I don't now if the railway still survives but the rolling stock does although widely spread amongst family, friends and Gainsborough. I have around 20 wagons and a few locos which I built . George built at least one of every class of great Central Locomotive and a great many others. I did a couple of the GC tenders as well as he was very bored with doing them. 

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The engine shed at Windermere was boarded up when the 52 foot turntable was replaced by the LMS with a 60 foot one. Its a distinctive building which lasted until most of the station site was sold off demolished in the 1970's.

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Windermere is coming along as I work myself up to the challenge of the main station building and overall roof. I am reasonably pleased with the signal box which started as a damaged Bachmann model minus its roof and steps. I have cut off the outside toilet and made a new roof gutters etc and extended the base as it site in the embankment. The base is still there to this day. Next job is to finish the platforms.

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