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Windermere & Hincaster Junction


Merlin242
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4 hours ago, 9C85 said:

 

I have just found this thread.  Totally outside my era but I am here admiring the workmanship. 

Could you tell me which 3D printer you have and which design package you use in conjunction with it? Does it come with any design software or do you have to import models from other packages?

I have access to Autodesk inventor and normally at work I could get access to a 3D printer (although I have only ever printed  replacement shower screen towel rail fixing brackets- nothing for my layout as yet). I am working from home at the moment so I couldn't print anything even if I wanted to. 

Also, with regards to gravity shunting, I would be interested to see how you progress.  I have always wanted to have a hump yard layout but I came to the conclusion that the only way I could get consistent operation and realistic speeds would be to have one of wagons in the consist motorised. 

Whilst typing that last sentence it dawned on me that I would then have the problem of what happens when a loco attaches to the consist and tries to remove it?

I suppose my solution to is OK for consists which end up 'off scene' ie a gravity/hump yard in the background. 

Anyway, back to the drawing board for me. 

Keep up the great work. 

Stu

The 3d printer is an Anycubic mega. Its a simple filament extrusion type. I use tinkercad to draw up the files which complements it well is quick to learn and free. As a pair they work really well on flat based objects such as doors windows roof trusses etc. Not so good on round pillars . The workaround with those is to spit them into two halves then glue together. I was pleased with the posts on the Station porte cloche which whilst it can barely be seen do have the cast half round indetations

I have been able to help out one or two other other people with printing such as printing all the roof trusses for Richmond. It does enable repetitive parts to be made which would be impossible in any reasonable time frame. if you ever need any odd parts printing send me an stl file and I will see what I can do.

The gravity shunting is a problem which I cant say i have solved. My plan was to have adhesion magnets under certain vehicles and the steel plates under the platform roads for braking.  With most coach sets I can get a reasonably consistent result in stopping in the Platforms but I find I need a steepish  gradient to get them going. They then speed up to an unrealistic degree before they  slow to a stop in around the right place.  The other issue as I have researched is that the passenger services into Windermere were far more complex than i thought. There were daily services to Liverpool, Manchester, London, Crewe,  Preston, Lancaster and others to Morecambe & Blackpool. This means a lot of different coaching sets. The problem with goods stock is worse. Rolling resistance varies a lot and is much greater for an equivalent size goods train than a passenger set. So it needs a steeper gradient to arrive at the same place. I had thought of a motorised guards van which with dcc I could run as a double header but i am not sure that would work with a great deal of effort to match up. There are around 100 locos available to run and i know its just not feasible. It really needs some sort of clutch to be able to dis/engage the drive in the van. I did find that the vehicles I have added magnets to for braking slowed noticeably on the track pins alone and did not really need the metal plates under the track. I may try removing them in the goods yard so see if that helps with gravitating goods trains. At the moment I tend to use a different engine to release arriving trains or sometimes the engine release crossovers. 

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Thanks for the information.  I have three laser-cut MDF girder bridges on my layout, but I would like to have a go at building my own 3D printed version to get more definition to the girders etc.

I have a non-intentional gradient in my sidings and certain well running stock follows the shunter back down the grade after being parked (Delayed-action Kadees). When I first saw it happen it did rekindle my thoughts of building a gravity shunting yard, but like you say, not all stock behaves the same.

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On 13/03/2021 at 15:40, Merlin242 said:

What is the collective name for a group of Jubilees? I have come up with Jolly or Jubilation 

Suggestions welcome.

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Ooh, you can't have too many Jubs. Smashing locos with a great (the greatest?) set of names.

 

I might have said a fleet of Jubilees but that's a bit obvious! 'Celebration' sounds an ideal collective name.

 

I've got a few in works myself which I'm looking forward to working on during the year.

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20 hours ago, 9C85 said:

Thanks for the information.  I have three laser-cut MDF girder bridges on my layout, but I would like to have a go at building my own 3D printed version to get more definition to the girders etc.

I have a non-intentional gradient in my sidings and certain well running stock follows the shunter back down the grade after being parked (Delayed-action Kadees). When I first saw it happen it did rekindle my thoughts of building a gravity shunting yard, but like you say, not all stock behaves the same.

A filament type machine would work well on a girder bridge and it would be pretty easy to draw up. The output glues easily together with superglue and produces very strong structures. It also takes paint well. I think you would get a better result than laser cut mdf. 

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  • 2 months later...
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For your interest:

Rapido's APT-E re-intro video was shot (the model bits) on the Windermere Station etc. layout that I operate on.

I don't know if this is new footage or leftover from the previous release. The station scenes are Winermere as its the only station on the layout.

 

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  • 7 months later...

A long overdue update.

 

I have  wanted to extend the model railway and after 4 years took stock of how it had worked out.

 

The positives are its generally reliable and runs well. Most problems are operator error rather than equipment and track. I have always enjoyed watching the trains go by and I was happy with that aspect but the main circuit would be better if larger. I was surprised to find how much I enjoyed modelling actual locomotives, locations and structures. Recreating actual events with the right rolling stock gave me a buzz. The railmaster software is a pain to set up but coped well with a largish layout and approaching 100 locos. I find using a mouse as a controller works well for me. I have enjoyed expanding into new areas such as 3d printing

The negatives are few. Whilst a large layout by many measures I don't have room to model some of the scenes I want to. I regret not modelling Oxenholme and its hard now to see how to do it without starting again. The prices of current models are staggering so I mainly buy second hand. I think it would be unaffordable to start now. 

 

So have devised a two stage plan moving forward.

Stage 1 in now well underway. This involved evicting SWBO from the far end of the railway room. I am sure the Brexit negotiations would have been easier! So a new garden shed was erected for the stuff twice the size of the space she has. Its now full?

This gave me an extra 13feet by 5 feet space. I am using this to:

1. Extend the main circuit

2. Provide the connections to Phase 3 ( Grayrigg & Dillicar)

3. Have a proper work bench as using parts of the baseboards was increasingly difficult

4. Extend the length of Windermere Station a little to the scale length so that the covered coach loading area can be modelled to scale.

5. Have a more reliable lifting section rather than ducking under.

6. Model the southern approaches to Carnforth from Crag Bank with its distinctive layout of single & double slips.

 

The new & relocated baseboards are now in situ and track laying well underway and hopefully the first trains will be running in a couple of weeks. I will post some pictures as progress takes place

 

Mike 

 

(11) Windermere & Hincaster Junction | Facebook

 

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Merlin, can i just ask you, as its probably not possible to get a full picture in a single shot, what proportion do you think of the layout area is track and associated stuff such as stations, and how much is scenic? I'm asking as I'm building a fairly large layout at the moment and I have some space left clear that could take extra sidings, but I'm wary of cluttering the layout. The other point is that I have no off-layout storage so an extra 3 sidings is three extra trains that can appear.

 

I also noted that there's a wild mix of coaches in there. I will be able to justify almost anything bar southern scottish and LNER through mine and was pleased to see how good it all looked, I'm also looking to acquire through the second hand market

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I think its a very good question and I think it comes down to what interests you most as we never have enough space. Attached below are some more photos

I think that at the moment its very much 80% railway infrastructure with the green fields in a minority. My plan is to change the balance in phase 3 as I recognise the issue. Phase 3 would be almost all tracks running through the country and modelling real locations. Its my priority to have a functioning layout able to accommodate lots of trains and that does mean tracks everywhere. Its just my personal preference to see trains go by and I do  like modelling locomotives I saw and knew and are local to the area. The downside is i have another double junction to fit into the country bit of the railway.

I have tried to soften the all tracks problem by having Hincaster junction yard as trains in a yard in countryside not a bare yard. (Hincaster is in my alternative reality where the Windermere branch leaves the West Coat main line)

You will see in the attached photos that I have chosen to add 4 good long sidings able to hold 6 coach trains to replace 2 short ones on the extended base board rather than add scenery but I did hesitate for quite a while. I plan to add a small station here with a road overbridge and some contours which should help. 

The mix of coaches covers most of the available areas of Midland region with the odd visitor . I do remember odd southern and GWR liveries in the early sixties but very few blood and custard. So  I probably have too many of them . i never saw a blue loco but they look great and so they are to be seen. 

Good luck with your layout and do what gives you the most fun. It sounds like we have taken a similar route and have the same issues. Are there any photos to be seen?

 

Mike 

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Thanks. You are a lot further on than I am, last year I decided that my first layout wasnt working as well as I liked and had some structural issues with the build. So i decided to rebuild completely bar repurposing a lot of the timber, and do a gradual conversion to DCC. But the layout is less than half built at the moment and has a fraction of the stock. What there is to be seen is in my blog. Its layouts like this that I look to for inspiration because its comparable size and yet is finished to a very high standard - probably much higher than I will ever manage. But its only while you are planning that significant change is possible, once all the track is down I wont be altering it.

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Progress normally slows for me in summer as I have other distractions and toys to play with.

I spent most of today battling to find an elusive short. There were two. A missed insulated fishplate on a point frog and a pair of crossed wires. A  sound fitted jinty finally made it to the lifting section. Its really handy to know that you have messed up when the sound stops and you are buried under the baseboard.

Mike

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Scenery vs track

Mike (layout Lostock Junction) has 2 rooms in his basement with trains in them. One has Windermere. This (I've mentioned somewhere) he says is full scale but with the track plan improved a bit and a larger loco depot. This part is almost all track with scenery being hung on.

The other room contains the rest of Britain (or, at least, the part served by the LMS). This contains a double track junction and a double track loop and another track that rises up and goes through the wall to Windermere.  There are large expanses of scenic grasslands -- bigger than some other fellows' whole layouts.

 

Microsoft Word - Lostock Junction and the Likely Lads 01.08.07 V2.doc (theplatelayers.org)

Microsoft Word - Lostock Junction Railway Revisited Website Version.doc (theplatelayers.org)

 

(not sure if the links came through) see theplatelayers.org

 

 

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Ive found looking at the stock sidings photos really useful. I was moved to revisit my track plan and realised that I had a really useful area that I hadnt exploited that would work as a loco shed with the stock right in front where they can be seen. Due to the timberwork in the way on my loft that can't be said for every location. And all I have to do is replace a curve with a point to gain access, so it can be left for a later stage in the build if I like, and it wont compromise the scenery plan for the nearby section which will be a station forecourt.

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Thanks for the comments and links. 

I found the cassette system on Lostock junction of particular interest. Am i right in assuming that the cassettes for part of the normal running line? If so its a bit like a low tech version the nelevator? solution that someone was selling with a vertical fiddle yard. That saves a lot of space. I also have no problem with low tech as I suspect it may be more reliable in the longer term. So thats real food for thought for phase3. I would be interest in how it works in practice and how the stock is retained?

 

Going back to tracks everywhere I am about to lay the southern approaches to Carnforth. The track plan follows the basic prototype plan just North of Crag Bank bridge. I have always loved the complex system of slips going into the down goods loops.  I spent some time spotting there in the 1960's. It means I can also model the mail pickup apparatus which was just to the South of the bridge. 

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Merlin:

The cassettes are part of the running lines.  They are aluminium replacements for 2x4s used in commercial construction. There are more under the layout which are swapped out (during lunch break?). Most of us are a little wary of swinging 8 feet of train around when it's someone else's.  (The actual movement is pretty straight.)

There are 3 turnaround loops in that room, all stacked along that wall.

 

 

My wife looks at track plans that I draw and says "Where's the scenery going?"

 

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  • 8 months later...

A long overdue update. 

Finally I have just about finished all the track laying in this phase of the layout. Trains are running again. I still have a few turnouts to fit point motors to and a few frog juicers in the paper mill sidings but the end is in sight.

Hincaster is a fictitious scenic storage yard based on the premise it was the junction for the Windermere branch. The scenery is also well on and the last big job there is to add a small station at Hincaster and finish the paper mill.  The only other issue is to finish the hill at Crag bank.

Then I can catch up on maintenance and upgrading of the rolling stock and running trains. 

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  • 6 months later...

I am now at the stage of deciding what happens to Phase3. Pretty much all the layout has a reasonable level of scenery and rolling stock so its time to decide what form Grayrigg bank will take. The junction is in place and ready to connect to and some photos will follow. To that end I have been playing with the banking of trains to see what the practical issues are. The video shows some of the experiments.

The positives are its pretty easy to control the trains on a dcc layout. I have three banking engines ( 2 Fowler 2-6-4T & Standard class 4) at the moment fitted with Hornby TXS decoders which allow me to follow the train if I want. Using any dcc engine as the train engine works . The sound adds a lot to my enjoyment whereas  for normal running it can be intrusive especially with several engines running. I have not had to weight the stock yet although. I think that may be sensible in future especially if I venture outdoors which is an option. 

My inclination is to do a quick venture outside on a gradient with  return loops at the end. This will allow for as much longer gradient and really test the practicalities. It will also see if my interest in banking trains continues. The other option is to extend the building first. 

Any views or experiences are welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY9hrEFr-MI

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  • 3 months later...

I have been fairly busy adding TXS decoders to some of the locos stock and bringing more locos into service and adding and upgrading a few older locos. 

I started with my models of banking engines based at Oxenholme  many of which moved to Carnforth when Oxenholme closed in 1962 and now have a decent collection. There are 6 fowler tanks, 3 Stanier 2-6-4t's and 3 Fairburn tanks. That far more than I need but I like modelling them and they all run well. It means I can ring the changes at will . Three of the fowler tanks 42313, 42314 and 42355 and 42464 have Hornby TXS decoders. These have modified speed curves which means the sound much more closely matches the wheel revolutions and ideal for banking trains. They are controlled via an App on a phone or Ipad so you can easily move around following the train. Its proved that banking is reliable and realistic especially with sound. I am now looking forward to adding Grayrigg Bank to the layout

 

Mike

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