Help with copyright please

[Prometheus]

I am the secretary of the Swansea Railway Modellers’ Group and each month send a newsletter to members and various others who have expressed an interest in one. About 170 go on-line and 20 or so in the post. A copy is also posted on our website.

 

I always manage to illustrate each edition with a number of interesting photos but would appreciate some advice on copyright. I always ask for permission to use photographs before posting them and guarantee an appropriate acknowledgement. About 90% of requests go unanswered however, which is disappointing. 

 

So, given that the newsletter is 100% non-commercial, is it acceptable to use photographs without explicit permission as long a proper acknowledgement is given and the copyright status is made clear?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

 

[johndon]

My understanding is that you do need explicit permission unless the photo is available under a Creative Commons Licence.  There are some copyright owners (Getty Images are a prime example) who will take legal action regardless of the reason for using the photo even with non-commercial entities.

 

I run a website dedicated to the Tyne Dock to Consett line and would never publish a photo without consent although, strangely, my experience of getting permission is the opposite of yours with well over 90% of people asked giving permission.  In fact, no one that has replied has ever turned me down.

 

John

[Prometheus]

Thanks John - that’s pretty much what I suspected. Appreciate the response. I was just hoping though....!

 

tony

[Kiwi]

I applaud the comment “...would never publish a photo without consent...”. 

But I also think there could be a defense from making a fair and reasonable attempt to contact the copyright owner. It does need to be a genuine attempt, backed up by documentation though. But Im just a “reasonable man” (legal definition), not a lawyer. 

[johndon]

I'm working on a 'better safe than sorry' basis

 

[Kiwi]

7 minutes ago, johndon said:

I'm working on a 'better safe than sorry' basis

 

Often the best way. 

 

Just as an example, as different countries can have different rules (though I would expect UK to be similar) here is the NZ legal situation I was referring to:

 

Can’t identify or find the copyright owner

Generally, the fact that you can’t identify or find a copyright owner is no defence to a claim of copyright infringement.

The Copyright Act provides a defence if it is:

not possible to ascertain the identity of an author of a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work after making reasonable inquiry and

reasonable to assume that the copyright has expired or that the author died 50 years ago or more.

Sometimes when publishers and other copyright users are unable to contact a copyright owner, they make a commercial decision to go ahead and use the copyright material. They may determine that the benefits of using the work are greater than the risk of a copyright owner bringing legal action against them. Often they will include a 'good faith' notice stating that they were unable to find the copyright owner, but they are willing to pay the copyright owner a reasonable fee.

Note: This does not give legal protection against infringement proceedings.

[Blandford1969]

I've always said yes to requests, however for example I don't look at my Flickr stream often so its possible some of those people you struggle with are in that camp. 

 

I would always recommend that you look back even if it is to say the source (and for that I mean going back beyond google) In the one case I have said no someone took my images and those of other copyright owners and started posting them without any reference back to the owners. All of us were upset and as it was not corrected resulted in the site removing all the persons images. 

 

The other thing I would personally recommend is not to go down the lines of , its on the internet and therefore its fair game. Again that just gets those with collections backs up and may mean less becomes available. If you give me a credit you are welcome to use some of mine https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=29644579%40N07&sort=date-taken-desc&text=swansea&view_all=1 (with a credit to D Chandler collection)

[bbishop]

As a rough guide, an image is in copyright if:

• the author is known and he/she died less than 70 years ago
• the author is unknown, but the image was first published less than 70 years ago.

You can legally own a copy of an image in copyright, but that does not give you a right to publish the image, including on the internet.

 

Bill

[johndon]

1 hour ago, Blandford1969 said:

I've always said yes to requests, however for example I don't look at my Flickr stream often so its possible some of those people you struggle with are in that camp. 

 

I would always recommend that you look back even if it is to say the source (and for that I mean going back beyond google) In the one case I have said no someone took my images and those of other copyright owners and started posting them without any reference back to the owners. All of us were upset and as it was not corrected resulted in the site removing all the persons images. 

 

The other thing I would personally recommend is not to go down the lines of , its on the internet and therefore its fair game. Again that just gets those with collections backs up and may mean less becomes available. If you give me a credit you are welcome to use some of mine https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=29644579%40N07&sort=date-taken-desc&text=swansea&view_all=1 (with a credit to D Chandler collection)

 

Can I be cheeky then and ask if I can use your photos of the Consett line on my site (non commercial and never will be) with copyright, of course, fully acknowledged.

 

John

 

[Blandford1969]

4 hours ago, johndon said:

 

Can I be cheeky then and ask if I can use your photos of the Consett line on my site (non commercial and never will be) with copyright, of course, fully acknowledged.

 

John

 

Hi John,

 

Yes sure, if you credit it to D Chandler collection. What is it about Conestt 9fs I have a chap comes every Kidder photo fair, just looking for those?

 

Duncan

[johndon]

22 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

Hi John,

 

Yes sure, if you credit it to D Chandler collection. What is it about Conestt 9fs I have a chap comes every Kidder photo fair, just looking for those?

 

Duncan

 

Thanks Duncan, very much appreciated.

 

I'm not old enough to have seen them but for those that did, I suspect they left quite the impression...

 

John

[Prometheus]

15 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

I've always said yes to requests, however for example I don't look at my Flickr stream often so its possible some of those people you struggle with are in that camp. 

 

I would always recommend that you look back even if it is to say the source (and for that I mean going back beyond google) In the one case I have said no someone took my images and those of other copyright owners and started posting them without any reference back to the owners. All of us were upset and as it was not corrected resulted in the site removing all the persons images. 

 

The other thing I would personally recommend is not to go down the lines of , its on the internet and therefore its fair game. Again that just gets those with collections backs up and may mean less becomes available. If you give me a credit you are welcome to use some of mine https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=29644579%40N07&sort=date-taken-desc&text=swansea&view_all=1 (with a credit to D Chandler collection)

I am certain that you are correct: many, for a whole host of reasons, don’t access their on-line accounts on a weekly let alone daily basis. I have never had refusals, simply no answers. And frankly, given that we all have lives betond the ‘net, I am not railing at anyone here either (it’s not the end of the world after all).

 

Thank you all for these really helpful replies and particularly to your’s, Blandford, for your kind offer. It is genuinely appreciated.

 

tony