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RSB chassis for Wills K3 kit?


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Morning gurus

 

Long time browser, first time poster to the community ... and relative newbie to loco kitbuilding.

 

I am building a Wills Finecast LNER K3 I picked up on the auction platform.  The castings are in pretty good nick, all things considered.  As part of the package a chassis was provided in the form of an RSB Models frames kit.  I can't find any info on this manufacturer, nor the frames kit itself. 

 

Before I shell out my hard-earned on motor/gearbox/wheels etc - can anyone advise if the chassis/frames are any good?  Any tips or inside info?  

 

The instructions clearly spell out how to fix said chassis to the Wills body, so I have hope!

 

thanks

Chris

 

 

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Hi Chris,

 

I don't profess to be an expert in this field but I have built a few locos. I know nothing about the RSB Models frame kit I'm afraid. I have, like you, purchased a very old Wills U/N Maunsell Mogul bodyline kit and I chose to buy the SE Finecast chassis kit which is really first class and includes all the parts required to build a really good prototypical chassis (excludes wheels, motor, gearbox). Does the RSB chassis include valvegear/brake frets etc.?

 

So, for what it is worth, I would purchase the SE Finecast chassis kit for the K3 which is about £30. Good luck and really enjoy building the K3 which were very strong locomotives.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Attached picture of my completed U class.

304743308_IMG_4791(2).JPG.082762e6d6916d1494a9c5f59d372f34.JPG

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I have no idea about the quality of the chassis kit, but I think before you attempt building this kit, if you can give us some idea of your modelling capabilities it may assist those able to give the replies you are after

 

 Do you want/require a compensated chassis ?

 

What experience of chassis building have you?

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Do you have a dimensioned drawing of the K3 to refer to? (If not that from Isinglass will be good.)

 

It is necessary to check that the chassis wheelbase is correct, and then with the boiler test assembled on the footplate where the driving wheel axle centres will be positioned relative to the footplate (both horizontally and vertically) with boiler centreline at scale height above rail top, to determine what diameter wheels can be fitted. It's typically all a bit tight vertically with a whitemetal cast body, because the thickness of the footplate is much greater than the sheet metalwork of the prototype, and if this is an OO or EM build, the flanges too are well overscale. What with the boiler being large diameter, it needs to be positioned at scale height for the model to look well. That may require some reduction from scale driving wheel diameter to be chosen. (To give an idea, the RTR model has a cast metal footplate with the tyre diameter at 21.4mm, and arches in the footplate underside above the wheel tops to clear the flanges.)

 

If all the above is well, then look at the cylinder positioning provided on the frame kit, to ensure that the cylinders are correctly positioned under the footplate drop. A little position adjustment can be helpful, as the pony truck wheels have to clear the front of the cylinders when they swing out for curves, worth checking on your smallest radius layout curve before committing to the cylinder position.

 

These were really handsome brutes, and with a whitemetal body will have all the traction required. I would suggest between 30 and 40:1 gears for speed depending on motor rpm: they were sent out on passenger turns requiring 75mph to the end of their time in service.

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On 01/03/2019 at 20:44, 30368 said:

Hi Chris,

 

I don't profess to be an expert in this field but I have built a few locos. I know nothing about the RSB Models frame kit I'm afraid. I have, like you, purchased a very old Wills U/N Maunsell Mogul bodyline kit and I chose to buy the SE Finecast chassis kit which is really first class and includes all the parts required to build a really good prototypical chassis (excludes wheels, motor, gearbox). Does the RSB chassis include valvegear/brake frets etc.?

 

So, for what it is worth, I would purchase the SE Finecast chassis kit for the K3 which is about £30. Good luck and really enjoy building the K3 which were very strong locomotives.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Hi Richard

thanks for your response - yes, there was a full set of Nu-cast motion that went with the package.  Not tackled that yet, but will give it a bash :)

 

I am just waiting on a tapered reamer to arrive and then I will tackle the chassis.  If that does not go together fair and true, I will opt for the SEF version.  The guys there have been very helpful with advice so far.

 

cheers

Chris

 

PS - nice work on that SR example!  I have a Schools class kit that my dad put together in the '70s on a Triang chassis that I will attempt to rewheel in coming months.....

 

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On 01/03/2019 at 20:46, hayfield said:

I have no idea about the quality of the chassis kit, but I think before you attempt building this kit, if you can give us some idea of your modelling capabilities it may assist those able to give the replies you are after

 

 Do you want/require a compensated chassis ?

 

What experience of chassis building have you?

 

Hi John

thanks the post - in answer to your questions:

  • plenty of years experience on plastic/resin/mixed media 1/32 kits, including kit bashing, air-brush etc.   However, just taken the leap and started practicing soldering on 2nd hand whitemetal and brass wagon kits.  (First whitemetal kit went together like a charm... until I discovered it was a broad gauge wagon kit :()
  • No, no compensation for the chassis.  Rigid will do, to run around R3 curves on code 100 track
  • No experience of chassis building - mainly been sticking to servicing old LNER Triang/Hornby stock

cheers

Chris

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On 01/03/2019 at 21:31, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Do you have a dimensioned drawing of the K3 to refer to? (If not that from Isinglass will be good.)

 

It is necessary to check that the chassis wheelbase is correct, and then with the boiler test assembled on the footplate where the driving wheel axle centres will be positioned relative to the footplate (both horizontally and vertically) with boiler centreline at scale height above rail top, to determine what diameter wheels can be fitted. It's typically all a bit tight vertically with a whitemetal cast body, because the thickness of the footplate is much greater than the sheet metalwork of the prototype, and if this is an OO or EM build, the flanges too are well overscale. What with the boiler being large diameter, it needs to be positioned at scale height for the model to look well. That may require some reduction from scale driving wheel diameter to be chosen. (To give an idea, the RTR model has a cast metal footplate with the tyre diameter at 21.4mm, and arches in the footplate underside above the wheel tops to clear the flanges.)

 

If all the above is well, then look at the cylinder positioning provided on the frame kit, to ensure that the cylinders are correctly positioned under the footplate drop. A little position adjustment can be helpful, as the pony truck wheels have to clear the front of the cylinders when they swing out for curves, worth checking on your smallest radius layout curve before committing to the cylinder position.

 

These were really handsome brutes, and with a whitemetal body will have all the traction required. I would suggest between 30 and 40:1 gears for speed depending on motor rpm: they were sent out on passenger turns requiring 75mph to the end of their time in service.

 

G'day

thanks for your post, really helpful. 

I think you've hit t'nail on t'head with the wheel diameter - suspect the rearmost of the driving wheels may foul the footplate/cab unless I'm careful.

 

( quick question:  when you write 21.4mm wheel diameter, is that from flange to flange, or just around the barrel?  Cheers)

 

I was thinking of 40:1, and I reckon the High level Hi-Flier with a 1428 will fit and will be ideal.  Have been in touch with the guys at High Level, they are proving very helpful - same with Dave at Roxey Mouldings.   

 

I plan to finish the k3 in LNER colours, for the late '30's NE region.   I will be running OO gauge, on Code 100 track.  R3 curves mainly, the occasional R2.  

 

Talking of pony truck - where would I find one of those?  nothing in the kit.....

 

thanks

Chris

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Fangio said:

 

Hi John

thanks the post - in answer to your questions:

  • plenty of years experience on plastic/resin/mixed media 1/32 kits, including kit bashing, air-brush etc.   However, just taken the leap and started practicing soldering on 2nd hand whitemetal and brass wagon kits.  (First whitemetal kit went together like a charm... until I discovered it was a broad gauge wagon kit :()
  • No, no compensation for the chassis.  Rigid will do, to run around R3 curves on code 100 track
  • No experience of chassis building - mainly been sticking to servicing old LNER Triang/Hornby stock

cheers

Chris

 

Chris

 

Might be worth reselling the chassis on eBay as it sounds a bit complicated for a first attempt and buy a Southeastern Finecast chassis which may prove far easier to assemble, having said this the Wills kit was designed for a Triang  RTR chassis, the Southeastern Finecast loco kit and chassis have been updated, I would ask for a parts list to be included and order the new additional parts 

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8 minutes ago, Fangio said:

...when you write 21.4mm wheel diameter, is that from flange to flange, or just around the barrel? ...

Diameter over the tyre. This is the standard way of measurement (technically on the centre line of the tyre surface, as it is coned). The diameter over the flanges on this model wheelset is 23.3mm, scale for 5'10", so a close approximation to scale diameter of the prototype over flanges, with a new tyre at the nominal 5'8" diameter.  (Bear in mind here that this is a bespoke wheelset for the Bachmann RTR K3, and isn't available retail.)

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2 hours ago, Fangio said:

I am just waiting on a tapered reamer to arrive and then I will tackle the chassis.  If that does not go together fair and true, I will opt for the SEF version.  The guys there have been very helpful with advice so far.

 

Chris,

 

I've never understood the tapered reamer thing.

 

The idea is to precisely bore out the axle bearings to be parallel (surely?).

 

To this end I recommend a parallel hand reamer. The lads and lasses at Drill Services have a very fast turn-around time, since they primarily supply professional machinists. The page for hand reamers is here, and you will want the 1/8 inch size. Probably; it depends on the axle dimensions you have. There are cheaper reamers out there if you search for them, but since you seem keen to crack on, Drill Services are probably the best bet.

 

To others reading this thread, this company is also a good source of fine sized drills, taps and dies. They've never let me down yet.

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Tapered Reamers enlarge the hole.  Parallel ones ensure it is, well, parallel.  I only use a tapered one.

 

Since we stick a machined bearing in a chassis hole, I've never bothered too much about the very slight taper in the thickness of the frames - that's where the solder goes.

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42 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Tapered Reamers enlarge the hole.  Parallel ones ensure it is, well, parallel.  I only use a tapered one.

 

Since we stick a machined bearing in a chassis hole, I've never bothered too much about the very slight taper in the thickness of the frames - that's where the solder goes.

 

Jonathon,

 

After writing that scread, I realised that the difference is: soldering the bearings in to the frame vs soldering compensation guides to the frame and ensuring that the moving bearings were suitably sized.

 

So, of course you are right. If you are going to solder 1/8" bearings to the frame, then you need to open the holes out enough to place the bearings accurately. And a tapered reamer becomes a useful addition to your armoury.

 

Dave

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10 hours ago, Worsdell forever said:

RSB Models (assuming it's the same one) was a model shop in Middlesbrough, they closed coming on 30 years ago so you won't find much about them. 

 

Thanks Paul.

 

Love the work on Rosedale by the way.  Beautiful part of the world, spent plenty of time walking on the top when I was little.  I grew up in Sinnington.

 

Although I am now living down under (Melbourne) I plan to build an NER layout based on Sinnington and the Gilling & Pickering line.

cheers

Chris

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Hi Chris,

 

You have received lots of good advice and as always there is always many ways to resolve a model railway problem. Thanks for your kind comments regarding the U.

 

All I would add is that it was relatively easy to adapt the N/U/N1/U1 Wills kit (very old kit I would add and yes designed to fit a very old Triang chassis) to the very recently developed Finecast chassis kit. Fortunately the  Wills body kit was very adaptable and the wheelbase assumptions were fairly accurate to the prototype. 

 

I should add that I have no experience of the K3 kit however I agree with those comments regarding the prototype, handsome and powerful machines I recall seeing the last few at Peterborough shed many years ago. 

 

Good luck with the RSB chassis - I would have adopted the same approach.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

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  • 2 months later...

Hello all

I bought two RSB chassis kits many years ago. They were the P1 and K3:

The P1 was supplied with a O2 valve gear fret and the K3 with a V2 fret.

The P1 wheel base was the same as the O2, but the K3 wheel base was 6 in longer.

The P1 chassis fits a Hornby Flying Scotsman body quite well.

The K3 will fit the Wills K3 body, but has never been used, as the SEF K3 chassis is one of the best kit chassis around.

As the K3 wheel base has the same spacing for the front two axles, it would be possible to replace the supplied coupling rods with Gibson rods to give a scale chassis spacing.

 

Malcolm

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all

 

Thanks Malcolm.

 

The chassis is now together and does fit the body quite well.  A little fettling of frame length has improved the fit.  As bought, the old Wills body kit included neither backhead nor cab floor; once these were sourced from those lovely gents at SEF, fitting the chassis at the cab end became a simpler process.

 

Next step is to source motor/gearbox combo, which will be coming from hi-level kits.  Most likely a mashima 1428 plus hi-flier.

 

Have not started the motion yet....  need another bravery pill (plus soldering practice) before I tackle that.

 

In the meantime have been distracted with building a Comet chassis for my old Hornby Jinty, which was a v wobbly runner.

 

These are my first and second kits respectively -  hope to post some photos in the fullness of time.

 

cheers all

Chris

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Good morning all

 

You certainly are jumping into the deep end, Chris, with building valve gear on your first kit. I built a few inside cylinder locos before attempting a K3 (J39, J72, J52, and D21) followed by an O4 with outside cylinders only.

 

Take your time and don't hurry the valve gear. These days I use 14BA screws to preliminary assemble the gear, after constructing two LHS valve gears for  a V2.

 

The choice of a High Level gearbox is ideal, I use them all the time. The Comet chassis are very good, I have used them to replace the cast chassis that was supplied with many old kits. e.g. the 4F and Jinty chassis fit NER locos.

 

Thane of Fife

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Malcolm,

 

The valve gear is certainly a tad daunting!  Keep putting it off...

 

I have been focussing on the Comet chassis for the Jinty of late: now have wheels and motor, and gearbox is on order.  Will put those together, then move onto motorising the chassis for the K3.   

 

However, I have been distracted with re-wheeling a D11 kit my dad made in the early '70s.  Managed to refit the original gearwheel to a new scalelink 9/32 knurled axle, and then fitted 4 markits wheels to that and a  standard 1/8th axle (after fitting bearings).  Original crank pins were a natural fit.  Seems to run ok, but does need running in.  Doubt it has run in anger since the early 80's!

 

cheers

cb

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I used a RSB chassis kit for a Wills N class over 35 years ago the Wills kit at the time was still recommending the use of the Triang 2-6-2T chassis, a sticker on the box noted that the chassis my be difficult to find, RSB made a number of chassis kits mainly for the Wills kits that used the Triang 3MT 2-6-2T chassis. 

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