RMweb Premium JR_P Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2019 Just finished reading an interesting article marking the 30th anniversary of the Cl 91. The article mentioned that once the 91s and mk4s are released following the IEPs entering service, their future (non-ECML) operations will include an open-access operator on the WCML and TfW (mk4 and DVT only).... so that’s two future liveries that could also be a possibility ;-) ! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ledge Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 On 3 March 2019 at 22:45, Grimleygrid said: Class 91 and Mark 4 carriages Cavalex Models are delighted to announce our first locomotive and carriages, the iconic Class 91 and Mark 4 carriages. Photo courtesy Neil Harvey After the APT project was abandoned in the mid-1980s and with the Modernisation and Electrification of the East Coast Mainline from London’s Kings Cross to Doncaster, Leeds, York, Newcastle and Edinburgh, a new design of passenger train was required to meet the growing passenger demand on this route. British Rail tendered for the design and construction of a new Electric locomotive to operate the new electric services and GEC successfully won the tender with British Rail Engineering Limited being the sub-contractor for the Class 91 locomotives. A total of 31 locomotives were built at Crewe works between 1988 and 1991 with the first passenger earning service taking place in March 1989. Electrification of the East Coast Mainline was completed in 1991 with electric services commencing from London to Edinburgh in the summer of 1991. 91010 has the fame of holding the title of the fastest locomotive in Britain having attained a speed of 161.7 mph (260.2 km/h) on 17th of September 1989 during a test run down Stoke Bank. The Mark 4 carriages were built by Metro Cammell/GEC-Alsthom between 1989 and 1992. After privitisation the Class 91 fleet and Mark 4 carriages have been owned by Eversholt Rail Group and leased to companies operating under franchise. After InterCity and then GNER, National Express East Coast, East Coast and Virgin Trains East Coast, is currently run by London North Eastern Railway. Between 2000 and 2003 a major refurbishment programme was undertaken at Doncaster Works to help improve reliability and following overhaul the locomotive fleet were renumbered 91/1s. Still in revenue earning service today, these iconic trains will make for a great model. Photo courtesy Bill Atkinson The Cavalex Models Class 91 and Mark 4 carriages will be released in 4mm and 2mm scales. Proposed liveries: Inter-City Swallow – Class 91 and Mark 4 carriages (Running numbers to be confirmed) LNER – Class 91 and Mark 4 carriages LNER – 91119 'Bounds Green Intercity depot 1977-2017' We will provide a further update on the project early next month. I'll be buying two complete sets in 2mm intercity Swallow livery! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 On 10/03/2019 at 21:49, RBE said: I can confirm that there will be close coupling for the coaching stock and between the loco and the TSOE. In all fairness to the manufacturers, I think that your wish for corridors (or even vestibule rubbing plates on locos for that matter) to actually be touching when the vehicles are coupled is a little wishful thinking for a model train to actually work. On 10/03/2019 at 22:51, G-BOAF said: ...In terms of corridor rubbing plates touching, my 'gold standard' is Bachmann Mk1s with Hornby 'roco style' couplers, where the corridor connections sit flush together on straight track. The Hornby Gresley Teaks similarly perform when coupled with proper roco couplers... Same experience as G-BOAF, it can be done in 4mm with Bachmann mk1 and Hornby Pullmans using the Roco pattern couplers between these CCM equipped vehicles, and looks well, works when propelling too. A little graphite powder on the vestibule rubbing plate faces ensures they always slip against each other. (It is necessary to remove the vestibule end covers and retract the sprung buffers of the Hornby Pullmans.) What is really attractive about this is that the entire train moves as a single unit, none of the unrealistic slack between vehicles visibly picked up one at a time as the loco moves off. That said, I am open to any solution that results in the coaches being at scale separation on straight track and as close as practicable on curves, and flexible vestibules that maintain contact at all times would be welcome. Commercially necessary compromises to ensure operation on 'any layout' - such as provision of a coupler that is slightly long so that there is always a gap - are fine, provided that an NEM spec conforming coupler closes the gap. Thereafter enthusiasts for maximum realism in operation will tinker with it to make it work exactly as they want, is my feeling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 What can be done when tinkering on your own layout is different to the compromises you have to make to account for infinite track plans that the people using your stock might have. Manufacturers have to air on the side of caution as for every person that praises the close coupling, 10 people winge and moan about how its been badly designed and won't go around curves and comes off all the time. Its a no win scenerio really. Thats said we have a plan in place for something that I am sure everyone will be happy with. Regards Cav 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 Project 225 update: We are excited to announce our Class 91s will have the option of having Legomanbiffo’s fantastic sound factory fitted! We are working closely with Ian to get the best sound possible for the iconic loco. Photo courtesy David Storey. 13 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 On 15/03/2019 at 12:46, Gcambo said: who are Cavalex by the way. RMWeb members Grimleygrid and RBE, I believe. One is 'Cav' and the other 'Alex.' 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Grimleygrid said: Project 225 update: We are excited to announce our Class 91s will have the option of having Legomanbiffo’s fantastic sound factory fitted! We are working closely with Ian to get the best sound possible for the iconic loco. Photo courtesy David Storey. Cracking photo, if I ever get around to finishing 'Lunerigg' then maybe I'll have to indulge in a rake to keep the baby pendo company. Kind Regards, Wild Boar Fell 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Can't believe I've only just seen this thread. Both a 91 and Mark IVs are always on my wishlist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) On 07/03/2019 at 20:26, ash39 said: It's a tricky call. I'd usually say to satisfy the most potential buyers, go with the variant which had the longest lifespan, but in the case of the coach doors I think it's pretty even. Circa' 96-01 for the blue doors and 01-07 for the red doors. Those time periods were my thinking too, hence my reticence to plump for red door coaches. What could be assumed (yeah, I know...) from Alex's posted Mike Harvey 'photo also seemed to back this up. For the three time periods I model, I have go-to Combi "bibles" for reference. Whilst an Electra set falls into my "Leeds area '96 - '99 (nominally but graduating towards the end of the decade in reality)" very nicely thankyouverymuch, the photos of Mk.4s in my 1999 Combined all have blue doors, pictures dated 1998. So it would seem I'm not in for red doors. I recall the ORR stipulated that passenger accessible doors on rolling stock had to be of a distinctively different colour to aid the visually impaired, but can anyone definitively confirm when GNER started/completed implementation of red doors? I'd probably still buy a 91 in Inter-City though, cos it's sexy! C6T. A foot long plastic toy with internal motor. Good grief, what was I thinking... Edited April 10, 2019 by Classsix T Correction 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 To be honest it wouldn't be much of an issue to produce both the blue and red door versions. The livery is fundamentally the same. We will look into the pros and cons for sure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamphillip Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 offer unpainted versions in a grey primer? that way those inclined can paint their own or pay for them to be painted? just an idea 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugs Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Adamphillip said: offer unpainted versions in a grey primer? that way those inclined can paint their own or pay for them to be painted? just an idea I would definitely pick up a third (and possibly fourth) set if this were available as an option! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamphillip Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Tugs said: I would definitely pick up a third (and possibly fourth) set if this were available as an option! more companies should 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted April 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Adamphillip said: more companies should Hi We’ve been here before. How many times do you see I want such and such in this livery that the manufacturer doesn’t do. The reply respray it followed by I can’t do that. Cheers Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted April 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2019 A vocal minority request unpainted models, and then whenever a manufacturer offers it (even un-numbered) they sell terribly. 2 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james-htfc Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 On 02/04/2019 at 18:35, Classsix T said: ...but can anyone definitively confirm when GNER started/completed implementation of red doors? Application of the red doors started in 2003 and continued through 2004 in line with the 'Mallard' refurbishment programme. I think it may have even gone into 2005 as Rail magazine ran an article on the newly refurbished Mk4s in March of that year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted April 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) Look at the standards manufacturers achieve with decoration these days , and people want to decorate them themselves? I bought the Hornby VTEC 91 set with two coaches last year then a restaurant and first class cars in the old East Coast grey livery to make a 4 coach set , about the max I can comfortably accommodate in my platforms. I repainted them white and managed the red curves relatively well using a template of masking tape ,put in the black stripe along the windows, but what you don't realise until you see the real thing is there's actually a yellow gold transition between the white and red colours that fades . Quite intricate . In addition I've never found anyone that produces the first class blue/violet stripes (with fade either end) for my 1st coach and the restaurant car. My painting just about does from 3 feet away or my seating position , but I'd certainly never exhibit it and am well aware of the deficiencies . So frankly I can never see the time people will be happy to buy an undecorated model and paint. Edited April 4, 2019 by Legend 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugs Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 30 minutes ago, Legend said: So frankly I can never see the time people will be happy to buy an undecorated model and paint. I definitely don't want to start an argument, or really derail the topic any further. But I would just like to point out the brands such as Airfix, Revell, Tamiya, Academy, Italeri, Trumpeter, etc etc. They seem to be doing ok, so there must be at least some interest in doing painting it yourself. I know for sure that I am in a minority of people who want to paint up their own models, and I also know that I will never be able to achieve the factory-finish quality. But it doesn't stop me from wanting to do it, and trying to do it. All I'm saying is it would be cool if the manufacturers could put a small allotment of models aside as the "unpainted" option. I know it will never happen, but never hurts to dream, right? 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) Whilst I share your style of modelling Tug, I repaint virtually everything I ever buy, I do think that in the model railway world the desire to paint models is in the minority these days. People it seems have become complacent. The amount of times you here people complain that their required loco number isn't available is eye rolling at best. Fox and railtec must be going out of business!! I have had my feet in many camps for years and I still even now build model sci fi kits that needs to be built painted and decalled up. There is absolutely a different attitude to modelling over here in the railway camp. I'm sure some would love unpainted models but I feel it wouldn't be enough to justify doing it. I also think un-numbered locos are superb as I change every loco number I ever get, and it would be great with the 91s, but those have been met with coldness in the past. Edited April 4, 2019 by RBE 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted April 4, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2019 Oh I paint my model airliners . Airfix, Revel, Zveda . This was why I attempted my VTEC painting. I think there are two aspects to this 1. Modern liveries tend to be very complex and 2. Model Railways tend to be much more expensive per unit than model aircraft . While I wouldn’t think twice about painting a £19.95 Boeing 787 , I might a £160 Class 91 . 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 April 2019 Update The design process for the class 91 is progressing, however, due to outside factors we will not be providing more information until DEMU Showcase in June. Please come and see us at DEMU for our next update on this project. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackB95 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 It's all very exciting. I for one can't wait to get my order in for a sound fitted 91119 and VTEC/LNER coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwam Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 I am rather late coming to this party but this is great news! I have (I am sure along with many others) been waiting for a decent Class 91 for years! I am so glad now that I did not buy the Hornby 225 VTEC pack a few years back, I would be kicking myself now. This year has seen a lot of models planned that I have been hoping for - Mk5's for TPE and Caledonian sleepers, an LNER Azuma, ScotRail HSTs; now all I need to do is figure out how I am going to get to work after I sell our car to buy them all...! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted April 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 13, 2019 I got the VTEC pack and repainted some east coast coaches for a 4 car set. It’s ok from a distance but would replace if the price is right. But I’m the same as you . Got TPE mk5s on order to go with my 68 Brutus . I want the Scotail Inter7City HST and quite fancy a VTEC one too . Lots of dosh but more of an issue is where to put them all. Really well past saturation point now! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted April 18, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2019 On 16/03/2019 at 10:53, JR_P said: Just finished reading an interesting article marking the 30th anniversary of the Cl 91. The article mentioned that once the 91s and mk4s are released following the IEPs entering service, their future (non-ECML) operations will include an open-access operator on the WCML and TfW (mk4 and DVT only).... so that’s two future liveries that could also be a possibility ;-) ! Where was the article JR? On 23/03/2019 at 15:32, RBE said: Thats said we have a plan in place for something that I am sure everyone will be happy with. Cav, I appreciate there is a cannot please all of the people all of the time issue here. But can I ask (not expecting you to give any details away, just food for thought at your end) that you give thought to two areas when it comes to close coupling between the 91 and Mk4s. It isn’t unknown for the 91s to run blunt end first, it a regular sight but does happen occasionally, and it may be something that modellers may wish to replicate, also that in the early days the 91s ran with Mk1 (charter) and Mk2 stock, hence the ability to retain normal couplings may be an issue? The second point is that some people (me included) May look to purchase a couple of different liveried 91s but a lower number of sets and switch around. A friend of mine for example would do the same thing, but his fiddle Yard is automated, therefore the ability to add a form of automatic couplings to allow the loco to be detached and changed comes into play. You cannot account for everyone of course, but my thought being that what every you decide on should (hopefully) keep the door open for those that may wish/need to amend it. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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