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Grimleygrid

All new RTR Class 91 and Mark 4 carriages

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I have an 87 with the BW pantograph and I wish Hornby had made it out of metal

The clasp which holds the arm to the base has snapped on one side

Okay so a replacement plastic pantograph should be cheap to buy but AFAIK replacements are not yet available - so I have an 87 running without a raised pantograph now.

On the other hand I have a Bachmann 90 and the pantograph I am very happy with. The servo may be viewed as a gimmick by some but it adds structural integrity

I hope that both manufacturers (as well as Accurascale) find a solution to this problem as it is a shame when an important detail detracts from the rest of a good model

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, letterspider said:

I have an 87 with the BW pantograph and I wish Hornby had made it out of metal

The clasp which holds the arm to the base has snapped on one side

Okay so a replacement plastic pantograph should be cheap to buy but AFAIK replacements are not yet available - so I have an 87 running without a raised pantograph now.

On the other hand I have a Bachmann 90 and the pantograph I am very happy with. The servo may be viewed as a gimmick by some but it adds structural integrity

I hope that both manufacturers (as well as Accurascale) find a solution to this problem as it is a shame when an important detail detracts from the rest of a good model

 

 

 

 

 

Could you not of got one off Hornby under warranty when it broke? Or challenge them under fair usage legislation in the uk as not fit for purpose. Apple had to replace my iPad that failed outside of its warranty time. If enough broken pantographs were sent back That would force a retooling. I think railway modellers accept things too easily when they go wrong.

Edited by scumcat

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Posted (edited)

I think the best thing any small manufacturer could do is if they have confidence in the product they are going to produce, and can fund the development of it, is keep silent until its on the ship from China!  
 

Therefore the competition has no time to react!

Edited by NIRCLASS80
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1 minute ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

I think the best thing any small manufacturer could do is if they have confidence in the product they are going to produce, and can fund the development of it, is keep silent until its on the ship from China!  

It’s the funding of the development that seems to be the problem. Crowdfunding failed dramatically for the djm apt, and this class 91 wont go to tool until enough orders have paid 50% of the price to make it viable. How close they are to that no one seems to know and Cavalex themselves seem to have gone quite. No reassuring statements on the website or on here.

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35 minutes ago, scumcat said:

Could you not of got one off Hornby under warranty when it broke?

 

Your retailer is responsible, you should take it back to them rather than going to the manufacturer.

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Sent my reply: still supporting the project for my complete pre-order of sound-eqipped 91, rake of Mk4s and DVT :drink_mini:

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, scumcat said:

It’s the funding of the development that seems to be the problem.

Indeed. You go to a bank and ask for a loan to develop a state of the art model and the bank says "what happens if Hornby announce it?". You confidently say "well then there's always the Fell*". Funnily enough the bank arent keen so crowdfunding happens.

 

*we need a new never gonna happen model. Those 7mm clay hoods I've always wanted?

Edited by Hal Nail

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Grimleygrid said:

Happy New Year!

336312899_GNERClass91Light.png.e88620ab41d0e4ed2a853417e53021df.png


Following this weeks news we have emailed all customers that have pre-ordered our Class 91 locomotive.

We will be posting a project update in the next week or so.

Thank you very much to everyone that has supported our projects so far - we really appreciate the support.

 

Happy new year to the team too. It's great to hear something so soon and for it to be positive, but realistic news at that.  

 

I've sent my reply too, as I would very much like the 91119 and 91116 I have ordered and keep the prospect of a company giving us a full set.

 

Cheers,

  60800

Edited by 60800
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To echo the above, I’ve also replied to say I hope the project continues and that I look forward to receiving my 2 Cavalex 91’s in the near future. 
 

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Really hope this project goes ahead. Sold my Hornby Battle of Britain livery a couple of weeks ago in anticipation of the Cavalex models being released.

 

Will be after said Battle of Britain and For the Fallen as display models and the Flying Scotsman and full take of Mk4 to run.

 

Was told at  Warley that the new liveries would be on the website early December. Been checking frequently but not listed yet. So if there are others like me wanting these special liveries, then that's a lot of people who are interested in buying models but have not been able to order/express interest on the website yet.

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I sent my reply with a big yes please. I would like to go for a second class 91 Flying Scotsman.  But that was not avaible to pre order. I have asked Cavalex hopfull that can be added. If so It will be an expensive year
John

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2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Your retailer is responsible, you should take it back to them rather than going to the manufacturer.

 

Thanks but this is second hand and so that isn't an option

The second problem is what happens when the retailer has no replacement?

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3 hours ago, Grimleygrid said:

Happy New Year!

336312899_GNERClass91Light.png.e88620ab41d0e4ed2a853417e53021df.png


Following this weeks news we have emailed all customers that have pre-ordered our Class 91 locomotive.

We will be posting a project update in the next week or so.

Thank you very much to everyone that has supported our projects so far - we really appreciate the support.

Nice to hear from you guys. Is that picture a painted 3d print or a model from a mould. It looks great by the way

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1 hour ago, scumcat said:

Nice to hear from you guys. Is that picture a painted 3d print or a model from a mould. It looks great by the way

 

Looks like a textured 3D rendering.

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Excellent work Cav and Alex... Looking forward to getting one. I've got one from each manufacturer on pre-order (rather than take the low road and bad-mouth any one manufacturer, I'm supporting both as our hobby needs support)

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8 hours ago, letterspider said:

 

Thanks but this is second hand and so that isn't an option

The second problem is what happens when the retailer has no replacement?

 

If it's new, it still has to go back to the retailer who will then send it back to the manufacturer, or at least take matters up on your behalf.

 

Second hand will have been "sold as seen" so still technically not going to be the manufacturers problem. You could go to court and argue the case, (How long is a model expected to last?) but I doubt it would be worth it. At this point a polite enquiry might work, or you are in the hands of someone like Peter's Spares who offer an excellent service. After that it's into the aftermarket world to see if anyone makes an alternative.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

The common part of the argument about Hornby treading on others toes,  is that the competitors chose something that had already been produced by Hornby and could very easily be produced by them again.  

 

Do people honestly expect Hornby to just stand aside while competitors cherry pick from their back catalogue?  It's Just business, nothing else.

The poignant part to mention is crowdfunding or pre-paid. It is not the commissioner taking 100% risk to go head to head with Hornby... its you the customer taking a bet that you can get collectively can “get one over” on Hornby... comissioners are just making it for you, take a cut and forever own the tooling.


imagine if DJ hadn't popped last year... and now be at stage 3 deposit on the APT..wouldn't the forum be a happy place today... There was lots of gripes about the class 92 being triplicated.

 

What stops mk4’s being announced by Hornby in July ?


if someone wants to use their own money to double up on an duplicating anothers existing tool good for them. When its released i’ll decide which to buy on its merits.. 

 

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:


imagine if DJ hadn't popped last year... and now be at stage 3 deposit on the APT..wouldn't the forum be a happy place today

Well Hornby would have lost all those already as they’d be committed, so likely Hornby would have been the one to suffer. 
 

Cavalex strongly suspected this was coming and the quiet isn’t a problem if you’ve ordered as they have emails. What they put out in public is sensibly less instructive to Hornby ;) 

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Posted (edited)
On 07/01/2020 at 06:10, MGR Hooper! said:


Agree with you!

I've got Class 91s from both companies on order.

I think you could actually be hurting both companies there, as it splits the revenues... unless you thing demand is so big that if everyone did a split both companies could still make money.

 

when you look at duplications in the market place at the same time, the track record of results isnt good..

 

B1 Bachmann / Hornby

4MT Bachmann / Hornby

Radial Oxford / Hornby

71 DJ / Hornby

J94 DJ/Hornby

1366 Kernow/Heljan

 

all of these failed to sell out and saw bargain basement pricing.

even historically the Hornby & Lima 92’s were in bargain bins.

 

but to give balance, I can think of a few successful duplications of similar quality toolings...

 

60163 vs 60163

Hornby and Lima HST 

Pendolino (Dapol / Hornby)

Class 08 Lima /Hornby, Hornby & Bachmann

Jinty (Bachmann / Hornby)

A4 (Bachmann & Hornby) - Maybe Dapol will downgrade theres to a normal spec too someday ?


But is the 91 really as popular as these ?

 

Edited by adb968008
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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Well Hornby would have lost all those already as they’d be committed, so likely Hornby would have been the one to suffer. 
 

Cavalex strongly suspected this was coming and the quiet isn’t a problem if you’ve ordered as they have emails. What they put out in public is sensibly less instructive to Hornby ;) 


Actually it would be you the customer who lost, as your locked in to a model, you havent yet seen, but now have a much cheaper one, with a better known brand to look at too... I found the Hornby 71 which cost less, arrived earlier, much better than the DJ one, which was prepaid earlier and devalued much faster.

 

Rails were somewhat protected from Hornbys Terrier, as pre-orders had taken a deposit, being almost equal to the price difference of the cheaper Hornby one... customers are locked in.

 

Its an individuals choice, if Cavalex proceed, best of luck i’ll look at it when released and may buy one then, but not at the moment, ive made the same decision with regard to the 25/37/45/47/Terriers/Mogul/Princess.. The quality of models in 2020 is little in doubt... loyalty gets you nothing, pre-paid doesnt either. As a consumer you cant change how manufacturers think, I dont like duplications - it keeps my wallet shut, for much longer...but it does mean you can play the game to consumer choice rules, not just what Manufacturers want you to think.

Edited by adb968008
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32 minutes ago, adb968008 said:


Actually it would be you the customer who lost, as your locked in to a model, you havent yet seen, but now have a much cheaper one, with a better known brand to look at too...

My point was that Hornby would have lost out because they were already locked in to the other so would continue with it regardless of the unknown’s. 

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Shall be Ordering the Battle of Britain Memorial flight one, when it's up for preorder. Hopefully the project continues of course to.

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