Bachmann Ivatt 2-6-0 Tender loco

[Pete the Elaner]

I usually like Bachmann's chassis designs but this has to be the worst I have seen.

It was sold as 'Not for DCC Sound' so I thought things may be a little tight but it is ridiculous.

 

It is labelled as DCC ready but from what I have seen, it should read 'DCC socket fitted but don't even think about using it'.

 

The instructions for body removal were 'Remove these 2 screws'. It was not that simple at all.

Firstly, the steam pipes below the cab are attached to both the body & chassis, so you have to break it off from one of these in order to separate the two. There is also a wire holding these in place which goes through the floor of the cab. Surely these 2 were never meant to be separated?

 

Once apart, the instructions for fitting the decoder was simply to fit it into the smokebox. This would be stating the obvious except there was no room. I first tried a Zimo MX600. Not the smallest decoder, but certainly not a big one. There was no way it would fit into the cavity. I then sought out a direct plug decoder. The only one I could find was a Zen nano. This is quite small, but the block on which the decoder socket sits is way too tall to allow anything other than a blanking plate in the socket. As a result, the body sits about 2-3mm too high.

 

Has anyone managed to fit a decoder to one of these? If so, what did you use?

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4MT or 2MT?

 

I have only decoder equipped the 4MTs, fitting Lenz standard. I removed the wasteful of space decoder socket and mounting points entirely, also the smoke box weight, hard wired the decoder to fit efficiently in the smokebox (shorter axis vertical), then filled all resulting voids with shaped lead pieces to improve traction. (These installs were performed soon after the model was released, and it's possible that the more recently available Zimo MX600 would make it an easier job, I would assess both decoders for which provides the easiest fit.)

 

On the injector pipework and the control rod representation issue, examples from the first batch of releases I fitted were as you describe. Brute force and ignorance department just cut through. Two later releases were trouble free, no cement had been applied to bond them together. The other major problem I had with a couple was that they had the mechanism inserted into the body with the paint on the chassis block soft, and the close fitting castings were bonded by the paint!

 

Trouble all forgiven now, reliable runners that look well, and replacing some of the most visible pipework with wire instead of mouldings is a further enhancement.

[gismorail]

Have to admit I sent mine to Diggitrains for them to fit ....very tight fit and was beyond me I'm afraid 

[Pete the Elaner]

7 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

4MT or 2MT?

 

I have only decoder equipped the 4MTs, fitting Lenz standard. I removed the wasteful of space decoder socket and mounting points entirely, also the smoke box weight, hard wired the decoder to fit efficiently in the smokebox (shorter axis vertical), then filled all resulting voids with shaped lead pieces to improve traction. (These installs were performed soon after the model was released, and it's possible that the more recently available Zimo MX600 would make it an easier job, I would assess both decoders for which provides the easiest fit.)

 

On the injector pipework and the control rod representation issue, examples from the first batch of releases I fitted were as you describe. Brute force and ignorance department just cut through. Two later releases were trouble free, no cement had been applied to bond them together. The other major problem I had with a couple was that they had the mechanism inserted into the body with the paint on the chassis block soft, and the close fitting castings were bonded by the paint!

 

Trouble all forgiven now, reliable runners that look well, and replacing some of the most visible pipework with wire instead of mouldings is a further enhancement.

Sorry, I forgot they also did a 2MT.

 

I was thinking about removing the "wasteful of space decoder socket and mounting points", but you've not confirmed this as a solution.

It is a bit dodgy of Bachmann to market this as DCC ready. I know I can do the cutting & fiddling necessary but I am not sure I would have bought it if I had known in the first place.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

...I was thinking about removing the "wasteful of space decoder socket and mounting points", but you've not confirmed this as a solution.

Well, it's what I did, and it worked in support of my purposes. The main motivation for this work being to make space for more weight inside by the combination of creating a clear void and hard wiring. Now sufficiently far in the past that I don't remember the detail of the process, but it was a complete rewire, decoder red and black to the pick up wipers, orange and grey to the motor terminals, all the original wiring removed.

 

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

...It is a bit dodgy of Bachmann to market this as DCC ready. I know I can do the cutting & fiddling necessary but I am not sure I would have bought it if I had known in the first place.

I couldn't tell you how many of the 'DCC ready' models by manufacturers various that I have had to tinker with, got their interiors 'rearranged' to eliminate poorly positioned and wasteful of space decoder sockets. Not that this in any way excuses the poor design, but my attitude is that a model of a subject of interest that looks right and runs decently is a major shortcut to populating the layout, as compared to kit building or bashing.

 

Maybe return it on 'unfit for purpose' grounds - decoder will not fit as supplied?

[Pete the Elaner]

Sorry, I meant you HAVE confirmed this as a solution. Thank you for that.

DCC fitting does seem to be somewhat of an afterthought for some models. Others are really good, like Bachmann's class 85 which even has space & an obvious mounting point for a decent speaker.

[BromsMods]

See the link from https://clarahost.clara.net/www.bromsgrovemodels.co.uk/decoderinstallation4mm.htm#bachst

[Butler Henderson]

Somewhat confused by this thread as the dcc socket is in the tender; mine has a Lenz Standard in it.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

13 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Somewhat confused by this thread as the dcc socket is in the tender; mine has a Lenz Standard in it.

This is the Ivatt 4MT 2-6-0? Those I have decoder fitted were I think 32-575/576/577 and were very definitely 8 pin decoder socket in loco.

 

It would be a good move if Bachmann have subsequently relocated the decoder socket to the tender on more recent versions, as it was an awkward cuss for decoder fitting as originally produced - albeit a neat model which both looks good and runs sweetly.

 

In general the move to putting the decoder socket in the tender on more recent designs from both Bach and Hornby has been very welcome. If you sense a reservation in that, it's because of the now quite frequent loss of fully modelled bunker spaces to accommodate the sound fad; a poor compromise.

[Pete the Elaner]

If they have moved it to the tender in later models (which would not surprise me), then I welcome this.

[Roger Sunderland]

The confusion arises I think because the small Bachmann Ivatt 2-6-0 tender loco has the socket in the tender. The large Ivatt or "flying pig" to give it its correct nickname, has the socket in the loco. I have two of these and don't recall any major problems, although I'll admit there is very little space. Fitting a standard size 8 pin decoder will be very tricky but there are smaller options on the market.

Try the TCS range of decoders, not cheap by any means, but superb bits of kit. The M1 micro will easily fit and even smaller is a Z2, however IIRC I fitted the direct plug in - think it is a DP2XUK (note the UK) - which is flat, unlike some other direct plug offerings, and of course has none of those pesky wires to find a home for.

[MikeParkin65]

Agree it is a 'pig' ( sorry!) to fit but I did the same as Roger Sunderland and fitted a TCS M1 to 43106 which I think is one of the earlier releases. Not sure now if its fitted in the socket or hard wired but I didnt have to remove any weights within the model. Proof that it is a challenge is that I subsequently bought 43109 and that remains 'in store'  - to be fitted when everything easier has been done. I am surprised Bachmann haven't taken then opportunity to move the socket to the tender as it is a fine model and I wonder how many DCC users are put off because of this.

[Butler Henderson]

A number of Bachmann models with the socket in the loco have little space for a decoder other than a small direct fit one such as the TCS DP2X-UK, do not fall for DCC Concepts hype over their Zan Nano direct as that whilst in volume is smaller than the volume of the TCS decoder it Is taller and hence fails to fit a number of models the TCS decoder fits

[Rising Standards]

I'd all but forgotten the hassle that I went through getting a decoder into my 43106 until now. It has a Gaugemaster DCC22 stuck to the back of the smokebox door and the wires coiled up in the limited space available. No changes were needed to the weight or socket for this, but getting the body back on with so many wires to conceal and pipes to put back into place was not a 5 minute job to say the least. The Standard 4MT mogul has the same daft socket arrangement, and mine has the same decoder too, but is much better thought out with regards to where pipe runs attach.

 

Low speed performance with the Gaugemaster (actually a rebranded Digitrax DZ126PS, or more likely DZ125PS at the time) is not quite what I'd ideally like compared to the Lenz and Zimo decoders I've standardised on since, but it's acceptable enough, and I'm not going through the hassle of replacing these particular locos' decoders unless I'm forced to by a failure! There's probably further improvement available if I can commit another couple of hours to deciphering the Digitrax manual again. I haven't tried it so can't say for definite, but if I was fitting them now, a quick comparison of dimensions suggests that the Zimo MX617R might be suitable.

[Robin Verth]

On my first 2 in frustration I ended up removing the plug and hardwiring a small decoder in, the next pair I used the small Gaugemaster DCC22 even then it was not straightforward the other loco that always gives me problems fitting DCC decoders to is the Hornby M7.