Jump to content
 

Kernow commission Heljan to do 83301 and 33117


BR(S)
 Share

Recommended Posts

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/64264/3362-Heljan-Class-33-1-Diesel-Locomotive-number-83-301

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/64265/3364-Heljan-Class-33-1-Diesel-Locomotive-number-33-117

 

Kernow Model Rail Centre Press Release - Class 33s in OO from Heljan

 

We are pleased to announce we have commission Heljan to produce two Class 33/1s which are expected to arrive around December.

 

The first model is 83 301 which was nicknamed “Zebedee”.  This loco worked as part of a test train formed in 1990 prior to the introduction of Eurostar units.  It was formed of Class 73 Electro-Diesel Locomotive number 73 205 named "London Chamber of Commerce", former Class 33/1 Diesel Locomotive number 83 301 nicknamed "Zebedee" and Class 438 4-TC set number 8007.  From the Summer of 1991 this ran with two additional vehicles in NSE livery.  It will be produced with standard Heljan bogies as it is not viable to produce a new tool for the bogies for this one model. 

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/64264/3362-Heljan-Class-33-1-Diesel-Locomotive-number-83-301

 

The second model is 33 117 in BR Blue livery with additional embellishments to the lamp brackets and buffers, also carrying the number D6536. 

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/64265/3364-Heljan-Class-33-1-Diesel-Locomotive-number-33-117

 

Both models will be priced at £149 plus postage and orders can be taken immediately.

 

83 301.jpg

 

33 117.jpg

Edited by AY Mod
More info from press release added.
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been looking at doing a model of this loco (well technically coach as the 83xxx number was in the carriage number range iirc?). I have some suitable eurostar bogies (need a bit of fettling) and just need a 33/1 donor at some point.

 

I suspect I'll give 83 301 from Kernow a miss due to the standard Heljan 33/1 bogies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, LU_fan said:

Unless I've misunderstood something, I don't think it had an engine either, meaning that would be an unnecessary expense.

It did have an engine but it wasnt in use, if it didnt the weight and balance would have been all wrong.

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

I wonder if Hornby's Eurostar bogies would be close ......... or available for that matter !!?!

 

That is what I picked up at the Stafford show last month. Looking at photos, they need some modifications (dampers removed and other alterations). There are two different (3 if you include the articulated ones) types, the other type to what I got is probably an easier start. Peter's Spares probably have them listed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
11 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

I wonder if Hornby's Eurostar bogies would be close ......... or available for that matter !!?!

I did a farmers check yesterday and saw a candidate, for £1.50 for 2 sets of non-articulated coach bogies i’m not risking a lot to find out.

 

i am in dilema though. The real 83301 was not powered.

much like my Ethel, which ive removed the motor and gearing, I am wondering the same here. Its not a cheap one to strip the motor.

 

one thought is to use an old Lima class 33 chassis, remove the motor from that and attach these bogies in their place, then put the 83301 body on it.

 

but that leaves me with the dilema, its an expensive way to get a body ! - and i still need a 73 to go with it, closest match is err my Lima one!

Edited by adb968008
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I did a farmers check yesterday and saw a candidate, for £1.50 for 2 sets of non-articulated coach bogies i’m not risking a lot to find out.

 

i am in dilema though. The real 83301 was not powered.

much like my Ethel, which ive removed the motor and gearing, I am wondering the same here. Its not a cheap one to strip the motor.

 

one thought is to use an old Lima class 33 chassis, remove the motor from that and attach these bogies in their place, then put the 83301 body on it.

 

but that leaves me with the dilema, its an expensive way to get a body ! - and i still need a 73 to go with it, closest match is err my Lima one!

how about this if the wheel base on the Hornby bogies are the same as the 33 strip out the motor from the Lima 73 & fit the sides of the Hornby bogies to the Heljian 33 as long as you do not need to run around the train

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am led to believe that 83301 retained its power unit but had extra ballast installed as well. It was looked at for preservation in the early days when 33s were hard to get hold of (at the time there were  3 preserved but all were in a bad way and were later scrapped) but was deemed too difficult to undo the modifications

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
8 hours ago, mozzer models said:

how about this if the wheel base on the Hornby bogies are the same as the 33 strip out the motor from the Lima 73 & fit the sides of the Hornby bogies to the Heljian 33 as long as you do not need to run around the train

The 73 motor is different to the 33 motor, in Lima. The bogies are totally different, as in real life.

 

Technically.. it is smaller geared as the 73 has smaller wheels. Hornby have made a replacement 73 motor (and use it in DMUs too).

Hornby has never done a 33/26/27 so they’ve not got an upgraded motor.

 

Practically..

The motor should be in the 73, 83301 was nothing more than a heavy carriage. A Lima 73 is the closest candidate as Dapol have not yet made a Mainline intercity livery 73. 

 

In many ways it would be nice if Kernow commissioned 73205 at the same time, and request a paint match...

 

As I’ve got a spare 33 chassis here, and the £1.50 bogies coming I’ve loads of time at no cost to “play”... I might even have time to make a “Pre-zebedee” test train.

 

From a model railway perspective though, the Dapol 73 is very slow, the Lima 73 is old/limited pickups, compared to the Heljan 33.. it may make more sense to keep the motor in 83301 and make the 73 unpowered, definitely having both powered they would be severely be compromised....

 

afterall that, the model solution maybe the inverse of the real solution.

 

 

One thing not mentioned is the body sides on 83301 from Heljan, the grills were sealed.

 

Edited by adb968008
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, LU_fan said:

My guess is that they'll just repaint a standard one. But the only way to find out for sure, seeing as they're made to order, is if someone orders it.

 

Thought it was just a set amount limited edition run, not based on orders received. From what I can see in the blurb, it'll just be a standard 33 painted appropriately, which is unusual for a Kernow ltd ed.

Edited by BR(S)
Link to post
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, BR(S) said:

 

Thought it was just a set amount limited edition run, not based on orders received.

 

Direct quote from the email I got:

 

The models are being made to order with the quantity being set on 31st March.

Link to post
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I wonder if they will do 83301’s bodyshell with the sealed up bodyside radiators or just do a bodge and repaint a standard 33/1?

On their website it states that it will be a standard Heljan 33/1 model.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only got to see this in use the once at Baisingstoke back in 1990. ?Also saw it at Ashford openday 1992. 

 

Interesting conversion. Seem to remember reading that the bogies were on loan from a TGV being fitted with prototype Brecknell Willis third rail pickup gear and when finished with had to be sent back.

 

a couple of nice Flickr Pics

 

83301 Zebedee

 

83301

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hornby Eurostar bogies have a slightly shorter axle to axle wheelbase approx 2mm so if your not worried about it you could fit them the Heljan bogies and use it for traction. Saying that the Lima/Hornby 73 motor bogie doesn't match either being slightly shorter. I've checked it against all my other 4 wheel bogied locos 15,17,20,24,25,27,33,35,42,85,86,87,90

and they are all to long. Oddly enough the only Loco that would seem to fit is the old Lima 67 being almost identical (less than half a mil)so at least there is one motoring option.

 

Cheers Trailrage

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, TRAILRAGE said:

The Hornby Eurostar bogies have a slightly shorter axle to axle wheelbase approx 2mm so if your not worried about it you could fit them the Heljan bogies and use it for traction. Saying that the Lima/Hornby 73 motor bogie doesn't match either being slightly shorter. I've checked it against all my other 4 wheel bogied locos 15,17,20,24,25,27,33,35,42,85,86,87,90

and they are all to long. Oddly enough the only Loco that would seem to fit is the old Lima 67 being almost identical (less than half a mil)so at least there is one motoring option.

 

Cheers Trailrage

 

 

It doesn't need a motor bogie though as it was effectively a coach with the 73 providing power with a 4TC set.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

True, but adb968008 suggested earlier in the thread that it might be a better option to have 83301 powered and the 73 unpowered in model form as the Heljan 33 is a better performer than the Dapol and Lima 73's.

Edited by LU_fan
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

 

My £1.50 Eurostar coach bogies arrived and my initial thoughts of either a Lima or Heljan chassis are below... I’ve used a class 26 for this example as both are sitting next to me, but the differences relating to a 26 vs 33 chassis are nebulous for the purposes of this test of using a Eurostar bogie.

 

first Lima...

B435FFAB-270C-4EC9-BAE9-40BB6B2D224B.jpeg.56a9ea97bb69351a797e1e0b698ee374.jpeg

very close alignment of wheel centres06741F5D-2925-4094-9633-F4B817184BA6.jpeg.dcbaa3f1a472b81851644ec450a6eae1.jpeg

Bogie could be made to fit the dummy end just by drilling out the pin hole, you can use the Eurostar bogie as is, and take advantage of adding pickups to the wheels.1DA32FAF-A5E1-47EB-8104-AABC916D1A5E.jpeg.934e32c02d5685e9455d288ddfb2d159.jpeg

 

Power bogie end needs a bit more work, the motor bogie is a cradle, holding the motor, with inconvenient joins at the ends of the bogie, and just where the joins of the Eurostar bogie (which is top mounted) is the opposite on the bottom fitting frame.

0A22C6B9-65DC-4936-9605-F58CE909FFA2.jpeg.6265c3fd6f2831a284b3a23291da7f4a.jpeg

 

you could cut the sides of the eurostar bogie, and cut the sides of the Lima bogie, then smooth off the cross mounting plate of the Eurostar upper cross section, and glue it under the cradle of the Lima bogie and glue the Eurostar sides to it and to the motor bogie.  The coupling will be reliant on the ends of the 33 bogie frame, but there’s enough to hold it, indeed you could discard it and fit a Dapol NEM pocket.

 

verdict.. very possible as a motorised or none motorised chassis.

639A2D5E-77D0-47FE-AE69-BC6A0B055722.jpeg.6fd586cc04d178689df3c48a300d08e4.jpeg

 

 

Heljan..

 

the bogie chassis sides are separate push fit fit frames into the bogie tower sides..A6A46EE0-8F96-4CF4-BD62-D9A7A06988F3.jpeg.8c69b2bd3525f95746758f42a2d557e2.jpeg4B235633-18BC-4E9A-BF95-64F08038CCA2.jpeg.debf607893d195c2de6ba1ec79374a19.jpeg

the pin holes for the tower side mountings are very conveniently  as near as Sod it to the width of the mounting plate of the Eurostar bogie.

B81E028A-87BB-4ADB-946E-2FA93694DCCB.jpeg.303d415050ec26123ffae9ed486e3115.jpeg

 

Note I’ve aligned the pin mountings of the Heljan bogie tower sides to the cutting mat vertical line to the Eurostar cross sections.

 

 

the centres on the bogie are also very close..

46E3A9C6-615A-4883-9BF5-653CA96E2F6B.jpeg.da180d050b4d95fdc8ad1bb241cd0cef.jpeg

 

one option is

Split the Eurostar bogie, leaving 2-3mm of cross section attached to the side frames on each side.

cut off the pin holes from the 33 bogie sides, glue them to the cross section of the Eurostar bogie, I then think the bogie would then pretty much push fit Into the Heljan bogie tower pins. (alternatively 2mm piece of brass tubing approx 6-7mm long could suffice if you didn’t want to cut the 33 bogie sides), the pin mounts are at the thickest part of the Eurostar bogie, so you could drill a small hole into the side frames to push fit the brass tubing.

79AB7998-3311-4D7E-9F89-E5C1F36578EA.jpeg.e9c3824ec4e37627d81664c0867e74a0.jpeg

 

from both options, the Heljan bogie looks slightly more work involved, but the fitting of the bogie would be fairly standard to the existing Heljan bogie tower.

 

The Lima option carries minimal risk and is a cheap chassis, but probably better as a dummy loco solution. It looks less effort.

 

As I sit here looking at it, I think I would go with the Heljan route and look towards a dummy 73, I think ultimately that would be more rewarding, but in the lack of a Dapol 73 in Intercity Mainline, i’d Use a Lima one and make it a dummy, fit a NEM coupling to the 73, and use a Bachmann Class205/EPB coupling bar to permanently couple them.

 

The Eurostar bogie obviously needs footplate steps and a pickup shoe, but is otherwise acceptable. The 33 chassis sides could easily provide the steps. The top of the bogiehad 2 large springs, initial thoughts are I could acquire a set of Replica commonwealth bogies (also around £1.50 from Replica) carve out the springs, and glue them on top... see below

 

5D1AD25D-1DAF-47B9-8C91-4AA33DDA160C.jpeg.729b8a962e42a91c3a44d2fe1f451309.jpeg

A few months back I offered to give away a dozen of these for free but got no takers, I am glad I didn’t bin them.

 

as for the 3rd rail pickup shoe, I don’t yet have an option, but one consideration, would be to use a house hold matchstick, cut it to size and paint it black, though the cutting a piece of that under bar of that commonwealth bogie looks an option to.

A few minutes with a file would take care of the Eurostar suspension piece moulded on to the side of that bogie frame.

 

but... i’d Really like Kernow to consider a matching Dapol 73, especially as it was a stock 73/2 and could stand alone, that said, in this context the power unit would be the 83301, as in all cases (Dapol, Lima or Hornby) the 73 motor is inferior to the Heljan motor and they would fight.

 

Ive used Hornby L7784 bogies, (there’s a seller with 50+ of these at £1.10 on ebay), I should caution Hornby did used to make a Jouef / HO Eurostar in standard Hornby packaging, these spares would be very under scale.

 

all in all, I think this could be done for under a fiver + p&p and an hour or twos effort.

 

 

Edited by adb968008
  • Like 2
  • Craftsmanship/clever 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am curious about 33117.

 

In January 1988 she was used with a 4-TC to do shuttle service through Strood and Higham tunnels after flooding there prevented the 3rd rail stock from being used. Here is a link to the pick and she does not have the white picked out irons nor buffers.

 

33117 at Rochester

 

Kernow's Image from March 1988

 

Class 33/1 Diesel Locomotive number 33 117 departs Salisbury with the 1225 Exeter St Davids to London Waterloo. 6th March 1988

 

Then in June seen at Orpinton. Still with picked out lamp irons and buffers but no D number on the side (and still pretty dirty as January's pick)

 

Orpington 1988

 

What is surprising is that between January and March she got white painted rims on the buffers, picked out lamp irons and a D number yet is still as dirty as January's pick. By June the D number had gone.

I wonder why what the reason was for this particular treatment with no evidence of a full repaint....

 

 

Edited by JSpencer
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...