Loco works on Lenz system, but no on NCE system

[Simon G]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

Coming back to your original post.

I'm curious as to how this decoder has been fitted.

The original Collett 0-6-0 was hard wired (all in the loco) and the later DCC ready version has the socket in the loco.

Neither has any tender wiring.

I have fitted a decoder in the loco to both types.

 

 

 

 

The Collett is the non-DCC ready version (as per service sheet E3230), and wires have been run into the tender to the decoder, and then back to the loco.  The wires are a bit too substantial, so neither the tender or loco bodies now fit correctly!  When I purchased this, there was a set of pickups to one axle in the tender as well.  More remarkably, there was also a Bachmann plank wagon, with even more pickups, hardwired to the tender!  This has been removed, and is now connected to a Hornby DCC fitted J83 0-6-0, which has a tendency to stall on insulfrog points.  I am currently undecided on whether to change all the wiring between loco and tender to allow the bodies to fit, or just remove the lot and return it to DC running.  I have taken a picture to show the current arrangement.

 

[jpendle]

I suspect that the DCC Wiki page needs some editing, for a start, no-one writes hexadecimal numbers as nnnn16. In the post above the hex numbers are 1 to 27FF, or 0x1 to 0x27FF, then the '4 digit address' makes sense, i.e. that it uses 4 hex digits.

 

The whole 1-99 or 1-9999 thing, as was stated earlier, is simply a desire to use decimal numbers and limit the screen display size to keep costs down. I.e. use a 2 digit display rather than a 3 digit display, etc.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[RedgateModels]

11 minutes ago, Simon G said:

 

The Collett is the non-DCC ready version (as per service sheet E3230), and wires have been run into the tender to the decoder, and then back to the loco.  The wires are a bit too substantial, so neither the tender or loco bodies now fit correctly!  When I purchased this, there was a set of pickups to one axle in the tender as well.  More remarkably, there was also a Bachmann plank wagon, with even more pickups, hardwired to the tender!  This has been removed, and is now connected to a Hornby DCC fitted J83 0-6-0, which has a tendency to stall on insulfrog points.  I am currently undecided on whether to change all the wiring between loco and tender to allow the bodies to fit, or just remove the lot and return it to DC running.  I have taken a picture to show the current arrangement.

 

Good grief!

 

I'd be tempted to get a mid priced small decoder and drop it in the loco then it would all fit

[melmerby]

24 minutes ago, Simon G said:

 

The Collett is the non-DCC ready version (as per service sheet E3230), and wires have been run into the tender to the decoder, and then back to the loco.  The wires are a bit too substantial, so neither the tender or loco bodies now fit correctly!  When I purchased this, there was a set of pickups to one axle in the tender as well.  More remarkably, there was also a Bachmann plank wagon, with even more pickups, hardwired to the tender!  This has been removed, and is now connected to a Hornby DCC fitted J83 0-6-0, which has a tendency to stall on insulfrog points.  I am currently undecided on whether to change all the wiring between loco and tender to allow the bodies to fit, or just remove the lot and return it to DC running.  I have taken a picture to show the current arrangement.

 

 

That's an interesting arrangement.

The tender chassis doesn't look right as the loco hook normally goes under the front of it.

That's quite a big decoder, the latest Lenz ones are much, much smaller and you can get a Silver mini in the loco with a small amount of work.

 

I'll post the picture of mine when I have located it.

I have also fitted a decoder in the tender of the latest Churchward tender variant as the tender was originally designed for it

 

EDIT Found it:

Click on my reply below

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by melmerby

[Simon G]

6 minutes ago, melmerby said:

 

That's an interesting arrangement.

The tender chassis doesn't look right as the loco hook normally goes under the front of it.

That's quite a big decoder, the latest Lenz ones are much, much smaller and you can get a Silver mini in the loco with a small amount of work.

 

I'll post the picture of mine when I have located it.

I have also fitted a decoder in the tender of the latest Churchward tender variant as the tender was originally designed for it

 

I would be interested in what decoders might fit inside the loco, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of room!  I would like to see your picture, if possible.

 

If you look carefully it is even more interesting.  Just in front of the makeshift white coupling hook, you can see a small blob of solder.  There is one on the other side as well, and these are/were the connections for the additional pickups on the front axle of the tender.  The brown coloured stuff is some sort of filler/glue which is both holding the white coupling hook and the axle pickups in place.  The additional pickups are not made of a sprung metal, and result in quite a bit of drag, so they will be either disappearing or modified.  The brown stuff is also preventing access to the tender body screw hole, so I cannot secure the tender body at that end.  To say that this was a bit of a bodge job is an understatement!  Here's another photo, this time of the underside.

 

[Phil S]

Have you looked at the pre-wired JST leads on eBay. .. like those on Hornby locos connecting locos and tender, but 4 different colour wires red black white yellow fairly thin and flexiblet. .. some decoder harnesses might have even thinner wire.

[Simon G]

I hadn't looked at the JST wires for this (but have now!), but have used something similar in the past when wiring between DMUs for additional pickups etc.  I have used a very small plug & socket arrangement, that allows easy disconnection.  I still have a supply of these wire, plug & sockets, so might just see if they will allow the loco and tender bodies to fit properly. 

 

Thanks to Melmerby for the link to his photos on the other thread.  If my above solution doesn't work, I will go that way.  I have a good supply of lead as well to help with the additional weight.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Simon G said:

I hadn't looked at the JST wires for this (but have now!), but have used something similar in the past when wiring between DMUs for additional pickups etc.  I have used a very small plug & socket arrangement, that allows easy disconnection.  I still have a supply of these wire, plug & sockets, so might just see if they will allow the loco and tender bodies to fit properly. 

 

Thanks to Melmerby for the link to his photos on the other thread.  If my above solution doesn't work, I will go that way.  I have a good supply of lead as well to help with the additional weight.

I've got some pictures in another thread with showing how I fitted a decoder in the tender, that was with the Churchward tender and I put pickups on all tender wheels as well. That's later in the topic.

Snall decoders that should fit in the loco boiler (after grinding a small space in the weight) are Zimo MX618, Lenz Silver Mini+, TCS M1, Hornby R8249.

Personally I wouldn't use that last two.

 

BTW your tender chassis AFAIK is not a GWR tender from a Collett Goods (unless Bachmann changed it late on)

I have had another look at mine and it is the right one

 

The other topic:

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by melmerby
correct wrong info

[Suzie]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

Surely they aren't saving anything because instead of using the bottom of the addressing range (in hex) there is a significant offset, e.g. instead of decimal 10239 being 27FF (14bits: 100111 11111111) it is actually E7FF (16bits: 11100111 11111111)?

 

That's what my original query was based on. Why use a 16bit address but only use 14bits?

The two most significant bits are "redundant" but have to be set.

 

The top two bits code the packet, DCC sends different types of packets not just mobile decoders - there are accessory decoders too.