mikesndbs Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Paul_sterling said: Hi Mike, Yes that is most helpful thank you. Re. the Morley units, i've not heard of them before, are they comparable in quality to the Gaugemaster Units? I must admit, the inclusion/possibility of fly-leads is profoundly helpful. which method of control does it use? as per HM2000 or the Gaugemaster D? Thanks, Paul. Hi Paul, the GM and Morley both use full wave transistor control. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 9 hours ago, Paul_sterling said: Hi Mike, Yes that is most helpful thank you. Re. the Morley units, i've not heard of them before, are they comparable in quality to the Gaugemaster Units? I must admit, the inclusion/possibility of fly-leads is profoundly helpful. which method of control does it use? as per HM2000 or the Gaugemaster D? Thanks, Paul. The Morley uses a centre off knob with 150 degrees left travel for one direction and 150 degrees right for the other. They deliver variable voltage from 0 to about 15 volts, I test LEDs with mine. Mine isn't a crawler but with a Relco it delivers much better slow speed control than the Merg in the video a few posts before this. The Morley Hand held is fantastic and I have rebuilt mine to be a really handy one hand operated palm size unit with Stereo jack plugs on a 3 metre extension. I just wish they did a singe unit, as I invariably twist the wrong knob. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 If you open the gaugemaster units they have about £1 of jelly bean components that you could knock up in a few minutes , it’s very difficult to see where the cost is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_sterling Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Junctionmad said: If you open the gaugemaster units they have about £1 of jelly bean components that you could knock up in a few minutes , it’s very difficult to see where the cost is. It is a fair point, and one my colleague has noted to me. However, building electrical machines is not my hobby, I'm so limited for hobby time as it is, I have to consciously balance time vs spend, and simply put, the diversity of the diagrams on this thread alone, are so vast, that the time required (for me and my limited understanding) to be able to successfully build one of them, or even a copy of a GM controller, its just not worth it. GM and Morley build controllers which (by the sounds of it), meet my requirements, and are ready to go, at a cost impact yes, but not a time impact. I hope that rabble makes sense haha. Paul. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Guys, The GM controllers are solid, really work and more importantly come with a lifetime guarantee, that alone is worth the price hyke. The Morley is more sophisticated (see my video) has overload protection and now they have the right level of smoothing is bang on for what we need. You have seen my video about making a controller from scratch? There is a lot goes into it time wise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_sterling Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) On 07/11/2019 at 10:29, mikesndbs said: Guys, The GM controllers are solid, really work and more importantly come with a lifetime guarantee, that alone is worth the price hyke. The Morley is more sophisticated (see my video) has overload protection and now they have the right level of smoothing is bang on for what we need. You have seen my video about making a controller from scratch? There is a lot goes into it time wise. Hi Mike, I watched your videos in relation to the Zero Two, both very helpful. Did someone really suggest your videos resulted in Layoffs? a bit extreme. Question I was going to ask, 18 months on from that, does anyone know if the Morley Crawler does limit top speed, or have they done something clever to preserve that whilst offering crawler control? I'm guessing the former, simply because I believe if they created the latter, it would surely make the standard zero three obsolete? Cheers, Paul. EDIT - Spoke to Morley's yesterday, and I can confirm that the Crawler does not limit top speed. Edited November 8, 2019 by Paul_sterling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) On 07/11/2019 at 10:29, mikesndbs said: Guys, The GM controllers are solid, really work and more importantly come with a lifetime guarantee, that alone is worth the price hyke. The Morley is more sophisticated (see my video) has overload protection and now they have the right level of smoothing is bang on for what we need. You have seen my video about making a controller from scratch? There is a lot goes into it time wise. No reason why the GM shouldn’t be “ solid “ it’s essentially a series pass emitter follower with In some cases simple poly fuse protection, the 50 hz full wave rectification provides a degree of pulsing virtually as an aside Edited November 8, 2019 by Junctionmad 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Junctionmad said: No reason why the GM shouldn’t be “ solid “ it’s essentially a series pass emitter follower with In some cases simple poly fuse protection, the 50 hz full wave rectification provides a degree of pulsing virtually as an aside 100 Hz but agree they are simple but then maybe that is all is needed? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 6 hours ago, mikesndbs said: 100 Hz but agree they are simple but then maybe that is all is needed? 50Hz before rectification is the normal nomenclature 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2019 But the ripple is 100Hz as Mike said. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 After full wave rectification the DC wave will be 100Hz, that was what I was referring to, 100Hz seems to produce a good balance between control and noise. Tried 500Hz and my how those locos sing lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Someone needs to whip the casing off the crawler and post some photos. I asked Morley a while back and didn't much gen 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 12 hours ago, maico said: Someone needs to whip the casing off the crawler and post some photos. I asked Morley a while back and didn't much gen Agree fully, I have been told its simply the modification I suggested, exactly it would seem, but would be nice to know. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_sterling Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 hour ago, mikesndbs said: Agree fully, I have been told its simply the modification I suggested, exactly it would seem, but would be nice to know. I spoke to Morley a couple days ago, and the crawler doesn't have a reduction in top speed, so I think it may be a little more than your (very clever) mod Mike. Paul. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Paul_sterling said: I spoke to Morley a couple days ago, and the crawler doesn't have a reduction in top speed, so I think it may be a little more than your (very clever) mod Mike. Paul. Hmm interesting, yes I suppose the extra cost has to be justifiable, hope someone posts an internal shot soon then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 On 07/11/2019 at 16:04, Paul_sterling said: 1 On 07/11/2019 at 16:04, Paul_sterling said: Hi Mike, I watched your videos in relation to the Zero Two, both very helpful. Did someone really suggest your videos resulted in Layoffs? Don't worry, electrickery skills are in demand Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobjUK Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 I'm guessing this is the Wireless World article people keep referring to - The magazines are in a public archive so I don't see a problem providing a link to that? See page 30 of the PDF (Page 333 as shown on the original pages). https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Wireless-World/70s/Wireless-World-1972-07.pdf The full archive of WW is here, just to give proper credit to the site: https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Wireless_World_Magazine.htm 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 That WW article is the one I used all those years ago, and still use today. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_sterling Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) Good news..........! The Dacia Sander.............................. Nevermind! Good news! Two Morley Vector 3 Crawlers are ordered! Paul. Edited November 15, 2019 by Paul_sterling 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_sterling Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Gents, I've now received the controllers, I've replied in this thread attached, as it was directly related to Morley controllers, so more appropriate, and answered Mike's question about if anyone had received a Zero 3 crawler controller yet. I'll post up on that thread henceforth, but I'd just like to convey my thanks to all who have provided help and info on this thread, to help me arrive at the purchase. Thanks. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) I'll looking to build my own controller for dc and have seen several circuits. Most seem to require 16v ac input which then gets rectified to 12v dc via a diode bridge. If I had a 12v supply, then could I use this and omit the rectifier? The psu I have is a computer one. I don't understand the advantage of 16v ac input unless it's to avoid wrong polarities when connecting it to a dc input. Also "smoothed" v "unsmoothed"? Just seems a waste to buy a 16v ac transformer just for it to be immediately converted to 12v dc when I could input 12v dc direct? Thanks Edited June 2, 2020 by ikcdab Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Some designs use the 50hz "ripple" in the rectified DC for the controller circuit. However, these days, I'd get a PWM speed control module from Ebay/Amazon (one which goes down to 0% duty cycle, otherwise it doesn't go all the way to "stop"), fit a speed knob to it, plus a direction switch. Power in from a DC PSU "power brick", and job done. If wanting something with more cleverness, then there are various designs for Arduinos plus motor H-bridges around. - Nigel 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2020 42 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said: Some designs use the 50hz "ripple" in the rectified DC for the controller circuit. However, these days, I'd get a PWM speed control module from Ebay/Amazon (one which goes down to 0% duty cycle, otherwise it doesn't go all the way to "stop"), fit a speed knob to it, plus a direction switch. Power in from a DC PSU "power brick", and job done. If wanting something with more cleverness, then there are various designs for Arduinos plus motor H-bridges around. - Nigel Ok and that's interesting but it doesn't tick the box of build my own. I've no problem using the 16v ac input but wondered why I would when I could input 12v dc instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, ikcdab said: Ok and that's interesting but it doesn't tick the box of build my own. I've no problem using the 16v ac input but wondered why I would when I could input 12v dc instead. Certainly a simple emitter follower circuit would work on a D supply just connect past the bridge. However if you choose other circuits check the pulses from a rectified AC are not used in some way. Some simple PWM circuits use the pulses to trigger the pulses such as only switching on the output as the pulse rises to a voltage set by the control knob. What would suit you is a circuit like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZUxAdhmT6k I haven't checked this one out but you will see it uses a DC power supply. If I was designing something for myself an Arduino plus a motor shield is the route I would take. Nigel above suggests exactly the same thing. Modern DCC decoders also use H bridge circuits. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, ikcdab said: I'll looking to build my own controller for dc and have seen several circuits. Most seem to require 16v ac input which then gets rectified to 12v dc via a diode bridge. Thanks Bear in mind that a 16v AC supply when rectified through a bridge will give more than 20v DC with any sort of smoothing. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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