BBC Four - James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain

[AY Mod]

I've closed the previous armchair analysts topic ahead of the TV series being screened and created a fresh topic for discussion of the programme content.

 

Please be mindful that several people featured may be members or readers of RMweb so due respect is requested. Pointless comments which add nothing will be removed, repeated instances of such will lead to removal of access to the topic for that person.

 

I hope it's an enjoyable product; it's important to the hobby that Hornby are shown in, at least, an interesting light to a wider audience and as with Channel 5's series last year represents a good opportunity to stimulate interest in the wider hobby.

 

The programme is available on iplayer to UK residents - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00030wh/james-mays-big-trouble-in-model-britain-episode-1

[Sprintex]

I knew Hattons were big but didn't realise their annual turnover was in the £50m league! 

 

Paul 

[Phil Parker]

Well, I enjoyed it. That Hellcat is an amazing kit.

[37114]

3 minutes ago, Sprintex said:

I knew Hattons were big but didn't realise their annual turnover was in the £50m league! 

 

Paul 

I heard £15m?

[martinT]

2 minutes ago, 37114 said:

I heard £15m?

 

Well, I heard £50m as Paul did - but that's incredible.

 

Martin

[MarkSG]

4 minutes ago, 37114 said:

I heard £15m?

 

£15m is correct, according to their accounts filed with Companies House.

Edited March 6, 2019 by MarkSG

[woodenhead]

Sadly for me it is following the usual fly on the wall format, but it was still interesting, I think next week will have more meat.

 

Now now I understand why all the professional camera equipment was present at Milton Keynes.

 

the following programme "for the love of model trains" is more my style of documentary.

[Widnes Model Centre]

 

I had seen enough after five minutes........

 

It vindicated what 90+% of Independent Retailers were saying to and about the previous management team. I may have to consult my Legal team before saying anymore.

 

Had we have known about that employee who has been there for 52 years and now runs the Visitor Centre. He, Peter, would definitely have been asked to be our spokesperson. SK's face regarding the scrapped tooling said it all.

 

Might just go and have a wee tipple and put together a Hornby/Airfix order.

 

Feeling quite, very bouyant for the future of Hornby after part one.

[Sprintex]

You're right, it was £15m, just checked on Companies House. Even so that's three times what the company I work for does per annum so still impressive!

 

Must clean ears out 

 

 

Paul 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Sprintex

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting, and I learnt a new acronym (stable) thanks to Jim and his kit collection.  Pete at the visitor centre was great stuff, good fun was had there by the editor.

 

What did seem odd was the speed with which many people blamed the previous regime (which one I ask) for all they did wrong and while some of them no doubt did do wrong in various ways let's not overlook the fact that they certainly produced some good stuff in the model railway area and, I think, some decent larger scale Airfix kits.   It was no bunch of folk without passion or lacking any sort of commercial and business sense who launched the amazing Peckett on us unsuspecting potential customers and some parts of the company, were in 2016 into 2017  really getting to grips with the market (us) and new business opportunities - so it wasn't all bad.  Even if the previous ones before that had thoroughly destroyed their relationship with retailers.

 

Only other comment - at times I though I was watching a remake of 'The Office'.

Edited March 6, 2019 by The Stationmaster

[delticfan]

Quite shocking that the moulds were scrapped Simon seemed visibly shocked. Heaven knows what was lost all those iconic ex triang bridges platforms etc. I hope not.

[Amand]

I'd love to hear what was bleeped out in the visitor centre section! Thankfully now  the key people at Hornby have a passion for what they make, and the impression I got was very favourable for Hornby staying in business. 

[Amand]

2 minutes ago, delticfan said:

Quite shocking that the moulds were scrapped Simon seemed visibly shocked. Heaven knows what was lost all those iconic ex triang bridges platforms etc. I hope not.

 

Given that pretty much everything is made abroad (India and China) then the moulds must be for something not made for a good few years? Any idea what they could be? APT and Blue Pullman plus others?

[Phil Parker]

4 minutes ago, delticfan said:

Quite shocking that the moulds were scrapped Simon seemed visibly shocked. Heaven knows what was lost all those iconic ex triang bridges platforms etc. I hope not.

 

The trouble is they simply don't know - or at least that's what we were told at the press day. Of course, a lot of the moulds will be Airfix models. Maybe I'll never get a beach buggy or Bond Bug kit...

 

Interesting seeing the tunnel mould though. I was told this is now life-expired so the model will become quite rare. 

[AY Mod]

The archivist, Pete, gave us a great tour some years ago whilst Dave who featured in the tooling storage was a diamond when Phil and I sneaked into the Visitor Centre early one December morning. I must get that video finished one day!

[G-BOAF]

So that puts an end to Hornby re-releasing the APT and Blue Pullman in railroad; tooling has gone.

What else has not been seen since production moved to China (mid 1990s?)?

Presumably lots of classic Triang stuff like the Giraffe Car etc.

Edited March 6, 2019 by G-BOAF

[Phil Parker]

1 minute ago, G-BOAF said:

Presumably lots of classic Triang stuff like the Giraffe Car etc.

 

Sad, but at least I've stocked up on them (10 and counting...)

 

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

The archivist, Pete, gave us a great tour some years ago whilst Dave who featured in the tooling storage was a diamond when Phil and I sneaked into the Visitor Centre early one December morning. I must get that video finished one day!

 

Yes, you must. That's a cracking video. One of our more entertaining ones. It's just because I beat you at Scalextric, isn't it?

[Legend]

It was interesting and enjoyable telly . It didn’t really go into the depth I wanted but I was probably hoping for too much, there’s obviously a need for some commercial confidentiality . The problem wasn’t only the last management though , which seemed to be the underlying theme of the program. The Frank Martin era seems to have been brushed out and I think the rot really started there . Olympics anyone? 

 

Some interesting snippests though. The sound J36 being delayed for instance. Ironic for me as I’m really not interested in the sound which seems to be reason for delay.  The other thing was the disposal of old tooling  . Surprising . I have this argument with folk at work who have this idea that if it’s fully written off get rid of it, despite the fact it may still actually have some use or value . I reckon you can say bye bye to any idea of an APT re emerging as it may we’ll have been in these discarded tools . 

 

Good that they brought out the effects on model shops . You can understand their believe it when I unpack it approach. 

 

Only thing i found slighlty grating was Mays references to no woman around , which was kind of reverting to the stereotypical image the great model railway show had got us away from . 

[AY Mod]

5 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

It's just because I beat you at Scalextric, isn't it?

 

We'll see how it turns out in the edit.

[nickb4141]

Hopefully next weeks episode will be better, but for me, it was a case of blink and you miss the bits actually about Hornby! It might have been better to do separate programmes about Airfix and Scaletrix and actually concentrate what the vast majority of the public believe Hornby represents; ie a train company. Airfix seemed to get the vast majority of the airtime. Unsurprisingly, it was very much in the ‘Top Gear cheesy cliches’ mould of TV, featuring a typical media version of a ‘train set geek’ in his garage -for me,  it felt like it was belittling the hobby. A shame really as this could have been a really interesting subject matter for a decent quality documentary and deserves a much better production!

[Mike Storey]

Shock, horror......this was excellent TV.

 

Simon's expressions were priceless, particularly over the lost tooling. No-one bothered to ask whether they would be of any use these days. No-one bothered to ask what he would have done differently. Being asked back seemed to be the sole explanation for the company's misfortunes for five years. I don't dislike Simon, he is very likeable, but I was unimpressed with his responses to my queries, on two different occasions at two different shows, back in the day. He was of a time. I am not sure that is now, and the programme did not make that case. Same for LCD - poached from one of Hornby's "biggest competitors" - seriously?? The case was made for passion, but the innovations were coming out of the boring office at Sandwich. 

 

No-one bothered to point out that the sound team's excellent work was done when neither Simon nor Lynton were there. But hey ho - that condemned sound wagon was my favourite innovation. I did not even know they produced such a thing. Indeed, do they now?

 

But my favourite part of the hour was when May explained that teenagers' faces had been blurred (at the big Telford show during the Airfix announcement) so that they might still be able to get a girlfriend. 

 

This programme was setting a scene, very enjoyably - perhaps the greatest illustration being that its innovations relied on the unpaid, huge efforts of individual volunteers, in this case on tooling that cost £100k  - which other c.£40 million turnover industry does that? It could have made anyone even vaguely interested in the future of modelling, much more interested, and perhaps better informed as to where the hobby industry sits right now.

 

Episode 2 sounds like it will be much more revealing. But James May sounded strangely aloof and perhaps sceptical. I am definitely going to watch that.

 

[delticfan]

20 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

The trouble is they simply don't know - or at least that's what we were told at the press day. Of course, a lot of the moulds will be Airfix models. Maybe I'll never get a beach buggy or Bond Bug kit...

 

Interesting seeing the tunnel mould though. I was told this is now life-expired so the model will become quite rare. 

I’ve got the short green tunnel in the loft got it for my fifth birthday 1972, magic.

[jjb1970]

22 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Interesting, and I learnt a new acronym (stable) thanks to Jim and his kit collection.  Pete at the visitor centre was great stuff, good fun was had there by the editor.

 

What did seem odd was the speed with which many people blamed the previous regime (which one I ask) for all they did wrong and while some of them no doubt did do wrong in various ways let's not overlook the fact that they certainly produced some good stuff in the model railway area and, I think, some decent larger scale Airfix kits.   It was no bunch of folk without passion or lacking any sort of commercial and business sense who launched the amazing Peckett on us unsuspecting potential customers and some parts of the company, were in 2016 into 2017  really getting to grips with the market (us) and new business opportunities - so it wasn't all bad.  Even if the previous ones before that had thoroughly destroyed their relationship with retailers.

 

Only other comment - at times I though I was watching a remake of 'The Office'.

 

I think this was always going to be the case, the reason Hornby have co-operated with this exercise is PR and to project a particular image (not criticising them for that, quite the opposite as it is an excellent idea IMO). The elephant in the room is that Hornby's downward spiral started long before SK left, I'm not blaming him for everything that went wrong over the five years or so before he left (that would be stupid) but I do find it slightly unfortunate to see the last management team vilified without acknowledging that they'd inherited a complete mess left to them by several management teams before (including those that SK was part of). I was also slightly bemused to hear that Airfix haven't had any wow kits, from where I sit they've had quite a steady stream of excellent releases including quite a few with real wow factor (such as the 1/24 Typhoon). However, if seen in the context of what Hornby are trying to achieve with this show then it was all to be expected. I was also unsure why they would be so desperate to re-use old moulds when most of their more discerning customers do not appear to be interested in them trying to flog dead horses that stopped being competitive in the market decades ago.

 

On the other hand I enjoyed the show and thought it made excellent TV, James May is always good value. He has an infectious enthusiasm and clearly has a genuine love of models and toys. He has that quality of having a genuine love of toys and stuff whilst also seeing them in perspective for what they are (i.e. despite his love of the models and toys he doesn't take it all too seriously). And the inside glimpses of Hornby were fascinating.  And I think we all want Hornby to return to financial health and thrive.

[adb968008]

A good documentary, more focus on the modellers than I expected, but assume this is a background build up to the next episode. i’m thinking the next one is going to be quite entertaining and responsive on the future.

 

600 parts to an airfix kit, I am stunned i’d no idea there was so much to it.

 

currently enjoying the magic of model railways following it, 6229 in Streamlined Blue in colour in film, LNER coronation in blue in colour film, loads of 1930’s footage.

18k people in the Ian Allan spotters club.

 

in someways I wish this documentary was shown before the Hornby one, as it’s an amazing context to show how the hobby has changed, in response to the real railway and hence its “inspiration” to railway enthusiasts who were Hornbys customers... in short watching the follow on, it’s not all Hornbys faults and it’s not just competition.. it’s customer base has shrunk considerably, not through its own actions.

 

Although a lot of old toolings have been lost, is that in some way not a bad thing, it forces progress.. the GWR did the same thing by scrapping the last 7fters to make space... next year came 4-4-2 North Star, and later the Star class.

 

losing the APT etc only means if they make a new one, it should be an improved replacement, not a rehash of the old.... the Terrier is a good example of a tech refresh.

Edited March 6, 2019 by adb968008