BBC Four - James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain

[trevor7598]

This years announcements were clearly an aggressive ' shot over the bows ' to warn the

retail commissioners, and the newer manufacturers ' don't mess with us ' by trying to 

upstage us. eg. class 66, Terrier, industrials etc.

Maybe we will get a sense of Hornby's fight back on next weeks BBC 4 show.

 

A very enjoyable show, last night.

[Nearholmer]

Quite enjoyed the programme, which seemed to be pitched quite nicely as “affectionate portrait of old friend going through troubled times”, rather than anything deeper.

 

One thing I hadn’t realised is how ‘mature’ the entire senior team seems to be. Experience is good, but where is the drive associated with younger people out to “make their mark” going to come from, and what counterbalances the tendency to ‘late middle-aged bloke group-think’?

[MarkSG]

I enjoyed the show. I thought it got the right balance between serious analysis and affectionate mockery - something that May can get away with, as he is an insider who understands the hobby rather than someone who doesn't really get it looking on from the outside.

 

To pick up on a few comments already made, I don't think there's any question that the previous management team still brought out some great models. But then, it's clear from the programme that the development team weren't part of the clear-out and continued to do good work. The issues with the previous management seem to have been more around the financial difficulties encountered by Hornby and their response to them. And maybe a part of that was mistakes made about which models to promote and which not to. I think it's entirely plausible that the dev team's work on the Hellcat had been halted, possibly over fears that the investment might not be recouped, and it took a new CEO with more vision to restart the project.

 

As for the tooling that wasn't destroyed, I think we all know now - from our perspective at the time of broadcast rather than when the show was made - which moulds were found to be reusable. It will be buildings and accessories, like the re-released Grand Suspension Bridge. I doubt there's anything in there to get excited about, but realising that some of the old moulds can be put back into production for cheap-and-cheerful, high-margin models is likely to be precisely the sort of thing that the previous management - with their focus on high-quality rather than "train set" releases - is likely to have missed.

 

[Pteremy]

I thought that it was very entertaining, as did my wife - although no doubt from a slightly different perspective.  James May was James May but not irritatingly so. Personally I think that anything that normalises the hobby (or aircraft/military modelling for that matter) is a good thing. Limited insight into the 'business issues' but to do that would have needed a very different sort of programme.

[lapford34102]

Hmmmm! Watched it and felt informed and entertained by the end and will certainly watch the next one. Did feel there was a hefty portion of journalistic licence being dished up here.

Those with a casual, for want of a better word, knowledge of the subject would have probably come away with  a certain impression of things. Those with a wider knowledge may well have a differing view.,

Will ponder on this further. Nice that Airfix are getting such positive comments on here. They've been doing good things for quite a while now and consolidating their reputation (largely).

Just off to finish my Phantom FG.1  Nice kit, tad expensive, still some QC issues that seem to be sadly dogging Airfix.

 

Stu

 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by lapford34102

[5 C]

6 hours ago, south_tyne said:

My only negative...... What I will say is that the demographic captured throughout the programme was concerning. From the scenes at the Margate visitor centre, to the model club, to the modellers focused on individually, to the audience at the exhibitions, and even to, an admittedly lesser extent, the staff at the company, they were almost exclusively from the same genre - i.e. make, older 50+ year old, grey haired, middle class, white. Now this is not particularly meant as a criticism, just an observation. To be fair it is probably reflective of the make up of those involved in the hobby. However, purely from my perspective, it is a sad indictment of the lack of diversity in hobby though. As I said, I enjoyed the programme, but in some ways it still smacked of the same old stereotypes with regard to those involved. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Pete Darton said:

There was a obvious shortage of people like this in the video, not sure keeping children out of the program was a good move or was there a serious lack of children at Milton Keynes.

 

This was probably the only disappointment for me in what was otherwise a great showcase for both Hornby and the hobby in general.

 

I was at the Great Electric Train Show during filming (I'm even in the background looking at Batcombe; face blurred so I think I got away with it) and one of the things that I commented on at the time was the diversity of the audience, the number of younger people [of both sexes] and families.

 

Admittedly this was coming off the back of the Great Model Railway Challenge, which had brought model railways to the wider public but the GETS audience was more diverse than the edit would suggest.

 

The big positive for me was how the programme demonstrated the more detailed, prototypical side of the hobby. The focus on things like scenics and buildings as well as the layouts showed it's about more than just the trains. It showed it really is a broad church with the opportunity for everyone to develop any skill or interest. I've noticed over the years that fine detail in scenics for example, is something that particularly appeals to women.

 

I don't subscribe to the "any publicity is good publicity" school of public relations, but on this occasion it was a real positive and I'm looking forward to next week.

 

[Fireline]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I thought the last management team that got the order of the boot to bring in LD had a lot of good ideas, particularly a conscious decision to refocus back to high quality products and the need to maintain a steady stream of new items. Others have noted it but the Hellcat was obviously initiated and developed before LD arrived (the idea that such a kit would be sat in a cupboard ignored until LD had the vision to produce the thing is clearly absurd) and the Hornby initiative with sound and new locomotives were a hangover from what went before. Which indicates the old team(s) wasn't (weren't) as completely inept as claimed. The last lot were only in the job a few months and got kicked out before any of their ideas could come to fruition but on the product development side LD inherited a company that was already going in the right direction and with plenty of excellent project in the pipeline.

 

On the old moulds, I suspect that the old team did Hornby a favour by having a good clear out and preventing SK from convincing Hornby that the path to riches lay in re-releasing old tat.

 

I am given to understand that the last management team had, in part, been there a lot longer than a few months, and that along with some good ideas, they had some utter stinkers. It appears that one of their "great" ideas was to stop buying Hornby spares, because they were expensive, and nobody needed them! Er.....

[The Stationmaster]

One tiny point which comes to mind in retrospect was the sound for the 'Lord Nelson' as I'm sure I was hearing and seeing 4 beats to the revolution (of the wheels).  I'm not a fan of steam sound in any case as I still think it lacks a lot of much needed refinement (and that is across the board, not a comment aimed at Hornby) but to get the 'Nelson' sound that wrong does make me wonder about their research into sounds?

 

(For those who don't know - the  cranks on the 'Nelsons' were set at 135 degrees as Maunsell was of the view it would provide much more even running.  Hence they had 8 beats to the revolution instead of the more usual 4 beats from a 4 cylinder engine.)

[Pete the Elaner]

Hornby have been a common entry point into the hobby. I feel that SK's disappointment with the tooling scrappage inferred that this could have been used for Railroad models which are exactly the models which can draw more into the hobby.

Gerard came across with a sadness that the only Hornby model on his layout was the 08. I think this was deliberate & well put across.

[BrushVeteran]

I think the programme clearly demonstrated how important the recognition of staff loyalty was. Simon has obviously had a huge impact on staff morale and that it just what it needs to get Hornby back up against its competitors.  Other than that there wasn't a clear explanation as to why Hornby had got in the state that it had and there wouldn't of been any need to mention names. We all assume that investing in the Olympics may have been a bad move but Hornby have been owned by a few large groups and  it's not always clear who is financing who. Hopefully part two may give a clearer picture as to how Hornby see there way forward in what was portrayed as an 'old mans hobby'!

[Mrhoppity]

I watched the programme last night and, like most people on here, I greatly enjoyed the heavily edited interview with the Visitor Centre guide . However, am I the only one who found James May's approach a bit patronising and condescending? He seems to have no understanding of the diversity of the hobby, for example, he visited Pendon in another programme and seemed bewildered by it. I am left wondering what he would make of Scaleforum or the Gauge O Guild show at Telford.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Mrhoppity
improving clarity

[Coldgunner]

Thoroughly enjoyed it myself, didn't find it patronising and its a gentle reminder that the people behind the red boxes are also still human.

[Nearholmer]

Stationmaster

 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one worrying about crank-phasing on the LN ...... I couldn't actually tell whether they were getting it right or not, but I so wanted them to!

 

More generally .......

 

On old tooling, my guess was the SK was looking out for potential "cash cows", things that can generate a steady, if unspectacular, income on the basis of long-sunk capital investment. Its the classic thing to do when trying to rescue a business, because it gives a breathing-space, some income with which to service the debt, while newer product, with higher returns, is brought to market. His evident "gutted-ness" was probably a combination of sentiment, and the realisation that his options in that direction were very limited.

 

One throwaway remark that he made really did cheer me up, when he said very emphatically "this is a hobby business", appearing to minimise the importance of the "toyshop sales" end of things. I've long thought that Hornby was very confused about this, trying to play in a toy market that they clearly didn't understand (because they didn't understand C21st children), when they would be better focusing their talents on the adult (which might start in teens) hobby market, which they have some chance of understanding. Still think they need to 'watch it' even there though, because what 50+ year olds value in their toys seems to be subtly different from what 20-40 year olds value.

 

Kevin

[JohnR]

2 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

I liked the concept of the sound fitted vent van but thought some of the sounds were out of place.   Do people want sounds of barking dogs, the noise of peoples feet walking or the meowing of a cat on their layout?  I think the sound files chosen need a rethink. I wonder what the full file list contains but you would perhaps want running water, seagulls, church bells, chiming clock, distant fire engine or police car etc...….but a cat?  nah unless you're targeting dads and lads. 

 

 

 

The Sound Van is now out of stock on Hornby.com, and even at several retailers. Theres been a lot of demand, hence why a second version is in the catalogue for 2019. As for the collection of sounds, I bought one at Model Rail Scotland for my son, (aged 6), and he loves it. He doesnt have any sound locos yet, but this has given him hours of fun. A meowing cat being chased by a dog, lots of shunting sounds, you name it. As for the quality of the chassis, I would have preferred a better quality one, especially if it was going on MY layout - but its not. Michael seems happy enough with it, although they could at least have changed the couplings. 

 

 

Quote

People seem to be very vocal about the APT tooling that might have been binned.  A new model is on the way and the old Hornby version was really nothing worth having.  It was almost 40 years old and times move on.  Whilst its also nice to look at the old tooling with rose tinted glasses on - were they seriously going to do reruns of 30 and 40 year models?   I dont see a place for them unless they were part of the RailRoad family.  Maybe now its all gone its time to accept it and look forward to new models from new tooling.  

 

I think the idea was to use life expired tools to create high margin models for the railroad range. My son (and I dont know how or why), is absolutely mad on the Blue Pullman and APT. I blame those BTF films! But I simply couldnt justify spending £500+ on Bachmann's BP for him, and the cost of the APT-E from Rapido is similarly out of the price range for him - even leaving aside the high level of detail, which while he appreciates it, he's simply not able to cope with at his age. 

 

If Hornby had produced the Blue Pullman and the APT in Railroad, he would be bending our ears from here to Christmas for them. And he most certainly would enjoy them. I dont doubt he'd be the only one. 

 

 

 

[robertcwp]

2 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

 

I see he was in at his desk at 6am which was an eyebrow raiser - that's dedication for what is essentially an office hours job.  Did anyone else spot the sticker on Simons office window "Spitfire"?   Was that a reference to the aircraft, the long gone spitfire railtour company or just maybe he was hot desking and had sat himself in the The Gateways "Sptifire" suite...…. LOL.

 

34066?

34066_TunWellsW SussexDownsman_22-3-64 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Mallard60022]

The great highlight for me was the Airfix Clinician. I have rarely seen anyone actually in action with that sort of stickability (sorry) and care in his painting, weathering and attention to small detail. SWMBO was well impressed with most of it and the only comment I received, with a hint of that's what you need, get it done, was storage as mentioned by said Airfix man when showing his garage set up.

Oh yes, his 'stash' of unmade kits was a gem and I so wanted the Bismarck box to get opened up so I could see the challenge that it most certainly would be. Also reassuring to view a garage that was actually more untidy than mine.

I thought the programme was well produced and edited as I know how hard that job really is. Outtakes might be ####### fun to watch too.

Phil

Edited March 7, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Black5]

Enjoyed the program last night with all the differing sides to the hobby.

Most of us realise anyway,but I thought more mention could have been made regarding the skills that the hobby gives you that young people could learn, modelling , electrical, woodworking, artwork and patience. How many other hobbies have such a range? I think in this day and age of almost instant everything ,the challenge of the modelling companies like Hornby is to encourage youngsters to stay with the hobby longterm and that might be difficult. I`m 77 and come from a generation where in railway terms we had a lot going on around us every day, but for todays youngsters, not quite so much. I agree with an earlier post regarding the program that followed, it would have made a bigger impact shown the other way round to see the progress made over the years.

Looking forward to part two.

['CHARD]

9 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 

almost exclusively from the same genre - i.e. make, older 50+ year old, grey haired, middle class, white. Now this is not particularly meant as a criticism, just an observation. To be fair it is probably reflective of the make up of those involved in the hobby. However, purely from my perspective, it is a sad indictment of the lack of diversity in hobby though. As I said, I enjoyed the programme, but in some ways it still smacked of the same old stereotypes with regard to those involved. 

 

 

Diversity will come if people with a latent interest are exposed to the hobby, and possibly if the hobby presents itself in novel, interesting and exciting ways.  We need, possibly - and wait for a really bad pun - to think outside the box on this one!

 

To describe 'lack of diversity' as a 'sad indictment' is, I think, unduly negative.  I reckon if you were to study the demographics of most 'niche' or specialist hobbies, a 'typical' participant profile would be apparent, it's not unique to railway modelling and we sometimes are in danger of fixating on it.

 

2 hours ago, Captainalbino said:

 the programme suggests that this is increasingly seen as a retirement hobby. Shouldn’t it be represented as a hobby for all generations?

 

Represented, yes, but we can't lose sight of the fact that between starting school and retiring, many people have restrictions on time, money and space.  Perhaps what should be emphasised are non-traditional/ stereotyped modelling pursuits, where traditional (certainly for me) equates to a big layout, not a box-file, diorama or shunting puzzle.  And these could be pursued while bringing up children, working or caring for family members etc...  I would love to do more modelling, but since the mid eighties (when I went to uni) it's been squeezed out by evolving combinations of all the above constraints.

[AY Mod]

13 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

It's just because I beat you at Scalextric, isn't it?

 

Job done.

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, Mrhoppity said:

am I the only one who found James May's approach a bit patronising and condescending?

 

Nah, not at all. He's excellent value all round.

 

I enjoyed this show more than any other TV for a long time, it was just fab. CTMK and I had a seriously loud 'LOL' moment about the young people with their faces blanked out.

 

1 hour ago, Mrhoppity said:

he visited Pendon in another programme and seemed bewildered by it.

 

He's probably not the only 'civilian' in the UK population to feel that!

 

1 hour ago, Mrhoppity said:

I am left wondering what he would make of Scaleforum or the Gauge O Guild show at Telford.

If he was to come to Scaleforum and wanted to understand more about 'why we all do this stuff', then he seems like the kind of chap who'd be happy to have it explained to him over a pint or two in one of Aylesbury's decent pubs after the show.

 

[The Stationmaster]

16 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Job done.

 

 

Albeit a little jerkily in places 

[AY Mod]

Chief Operations Officer Tim Mulhall has sent over a few explanatory notes:

 

Quote

The scrapped tooling – who said it was only Hornby and who said it was 1950/60/70s?

Plus, what makes people think tooling moved to China stayed there. I’m sat not 50 yards from tooling which was used in the last 12 months. That has almost certainly been happening throughout the period since 2000 when production moved to China.

Hornby Hobbies are 15 brands – made in 5 countries, including the UK.

 

[Mrhoppity]

24 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

1 hour ago, Mrhoppity said:

am I the only one who found James May's approach a bit patronising and condescending?

 

Nah, not at all. He's excellent value all round.

 

I enjoyed this show more than any other TV for a long time, it was just fab. CTMK and I had a seriously loud 'LOL' moment about the young people with their faces blanked out.

 

1 hour ago, Mrhoppity said:

he visited Pendon in another programme and seemed bewildered by it.

 

He's probably not the only 'civilian' in the UK population to feel that!

 

1 hour ago, Mrhoppity said:

I am left wondering what he would make of Scaleforum or the Gauge O Guild show at Telford.

If he was to come to Scaleforum and wanted to understand more about 'why we all do this stuff', then he seems like the kind of chap who'd be happy to have it explained to him over a pint or two in one of Aylesbury's decent pubs after the show.

 

 

Fair enough, not all TV presenters are to everyone's taste. I take your point about Pendon though.

 

[MarkSG]

1 hour ago, JohnR said:

 

The Sound Van is now out of stock on Hornby.com, and even at several retailers. Theres been a lot of demand, hence why a second version is in the catalogue for 2019. As for the collection of sounds, I bought one at Model Rail Scotland for my son, (aged 6), and he loves it. He doesnt have any sound locos yet, but this has given him hours of fun. A meowing cat being chased by a dog, lots of shunting sounds, you name it. As for the quality of the chassis, I would have preferred a better quality one, especially if it was going on MY layout - but its not. Michael seems happy enough with it, although they could at least have changed the couplings. 

 

 

I was a bit cynical about the sound van when it was first introduced, too, but I can see the appeal of it. After all, if we're adding sound to locos, then it does make sense to also introduce ambient sound to a layout. In fact, ambient sound has been a thing (albeit using a much more old-fashioned mechanism, such as a cassette player) on some exhibition layouts for as long as I can remember. So adding it to home layouts makes sense, too (and sound-equipped exhibition layouts even more so).

 

You could achieve the same end via a speaker under the baseboard or hidden in a building, of course. But the big advantage of using a DCC sound chip in a wagon is that you can just plonk it on the layout and operate it via your existing controller - no wiring necessary, no need for separate recordings, just the ultimate in plop-and-play. It's a kind of "eureka" moment that makes you wonder why nobody has thought of it before.

 

As for the couplings, given that it's going to spend nearly all of its time parked at the end of a siding, you might as well remove them if you're concerned about the visuals. I would, if I had one. In fact, I might well get one - although if I do, I then have to start thinking about sound in my locos, which I've previously decided I don't want. Ho hum.

[johndon]

Just watched this over lunchtime and enjoyed it.

The 'corporate' takeover at Hornby reminded me a bit of what's happened at Newcastle United with the big businessman coming in with no real passion for the product whether that be models or football...