BBC Four - James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain

[The Evil Bus Driver]

The bit about the tooling was pretty alarming. Some of it must have been pretty ancient but didn't SK say the APT tooling was in a bad state and a precarious position?

Edited March 8, 2019 by The Evil Bus Driver

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, The Evil Bus Driver said:

 

 

That said the Hellcat does look tasty and he did a good job painting that engine assembly.

 

 

 

I think plastic kits look reasonable value for the amount of hobby time you’d get out of them. Do they own corgi ? Their models look awful value - IiRC 1/72 sea harrier is over 100 quid now and it’s very poor.

 

i personally wouldn’t go back to plastic kits, if I put that much time in , it’s got to move.

Edited March 8, 2019 by AY Mod

[The Evil Bus Driver]

2 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Shoreham crash - looks like he got off.

I think plastic kits look reasonable value for the amount of hobby time you’d get out of them. Do they own corgi ? Their models look awful value - IiRC 1/72 sea harrier is over 100 quid now and it’s very poor.

 

i personally wouldn’t go back to plastic kits, if I put that much time in , it’s got to move.

Yes I saw that.

 

I suppose being the one who makes the first of a kit has its own kudos lol. I'm more interested in the former Airfix railway stuff that's now with Dapol

[Fenman]

27 minutes ago, Pete Darton said:

Manufacturing maybe cheaper in China but the cost of the product has continued to rise to the customer. Where has the saving gone? Maybe it has saved Hornby from collapsing or has it gone into share holders pockets.

 

 ...

 

I’m not sure what you mean. Since Hornby has been making massive *losses* for years, the opposite has been happening: the shareholders have been subsidising every single sale, putting *their* money into *your* pockets. 

 

Paul

[Phil Parker]

3 minutes ago, Pete Darton said:

Manufacturing maybe cheaper in China but the cost of the product has continued to rise to the customer. Where has the saving gone? Maybe it has saved Hornby from collapsing or has it gone into share holders pockets.

 

there are pro and cons of production in China, we know what the pro are. The con are language issue between head office and China. Less communication between head office and production staff because of distance between the countries causing production issues. Also as China develop economically they will charge more and then what happens to production?

 

As mentioned in many, many threads on here, wages in China have been rising at the insistence of the Government putting the final price up.

 

China isn't the only place Hornby use of course, Airfix kits are made in India.

[polybear]

2 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Why would you bring tools to the UK (they are very heavy and expensive to move) when you have no machinery on which to run them and will simply need to return them to China the next time you want to run them? I have certainly never been told by Hornby that they've brought China-made tools to the UK. (CJL)

 

Safe keeping.  Or in this case not.....

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, railroadbill said:

 

Good grief! 

 

Also, those of us of a certain age may recall Gerry Anderson's  Fireball XL5  which (and I'm searching back through the mists of a long time here)  took off  along rails that curved up at the end.  There must have been a kit of it at the time...

 

We had a Fireball XL5 that you launched into the air with a catapult, and it deployed a parachute to land "safely". 

 

A rail-launched one, powered by a Jetex motor would have been fun!

[Mike Storey]

3 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Sneak Peak:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p072q8r9

 

Thanks for that (I think someone had already posted it but I missed it). Not the greatest of drama. Indeed, Simon sums it up "tedious".....

 

[C.A.T.Ford]

As various accusations about my operating team and my layout have been aired on this thread I thought I'd tell you all how we happened to arrive on this program.

 

The story starts two weeks before the Great Electric Train Show (GETS). I was at a show with my other layout and my son and my friend Paul were at a factory sale at Hornby's Margate site. While Phil, my son, was on the phone to me and surrounded by boxes he was approached by the film crew and asked if he was a collector, followed by, was he on the phone to a collector. It rapidly became apparent that the production company thought all Hornby products were bought by collectors and squirreled away. It took rather a long time for Paul and Phil to explain that they were buying equipment to use on a model railway, the  film crew seemed to have no concept of this.

 

 As a result Paul and Phil were interviewed and filmed checking out. It also came out that my layout was due to go GETS and so were the film crew. They wanted to film the layout before and at GETS and asked if they could do this.

Up until this point the production company had planned for no model railway content at all other than as a back drop to the Hornby stand at GETS. So the choice was Say yes and let them film warts and all, or say No and they would have gone back into the sale and kept on asking until they found a collector. If I said no the model railway community would have been represented to the public by a person opening cupboards to show stacks of unopened boxes. If I said yes at least some vestige of what the modelling community could do would get through. I said yes and I stand by that decision, although if I knew what it would unleash I might have thought again.

In due course the crew turned up at my home where the layout was part set up while we did some work. Five hours later they left after grilling us each for 20 minutes about what we would do when Hornby went under. We kept telling them that that wasn't going to happen and my comment on it being like the Queen dying was in answer to the modified question, "What would it be like if Hornby ceased to make model railways for any reason?"

 

At the show they filmed us arriving (I had to drive in and out of the car park three times). They filmed us setting up. Yes I had forgotten the buildings  but a quick there and back sorted that. No Gerard didn't save the day it was a team effort and Paul worked out that we didn't need those sections, but it was edited to seem that way. Editing can turn anything which ever way the Editor wants. 

 

The Ale Bar in New Cross has a monthly Railway Modeller's night. The film crew filmed that as well, so that was another four hours or so along with interviews. They wanted Paul and me to go to Warley (at our own expense) and walk them round the show to give the Railway Modeller's perspective on new developments. We did this and drew attention to various new items. All this ended on the cutting room floor.

 

All in all they must have had over 30 hours of footage of us let alone Gerard. I feel I should point out that the film crew didn't know Gerard until GETS But they contacted him and spent well over five hours at his home. I know he appeared first, remember what I said about editing!

 

So there you go it was go for it, or let the collectors speak for the community what would you do in that split second?

 

Oh! and one thing if you start and offensive sentence " I don't mean to be offensive" you are about to be offensive and that phrase doesn't make it right. The end result is I have to spend hours calming an offended person who wants to smash years of  modelling work up.

[jjb1970]

That wasn't a fight, that was a normal example of somebody having a go and being told "nice try but foxtrot oscar", if that's a fight and high drama then I should be punch drunk as such episodes are part and parcel of my work. 

[Mike Storey]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

As mentioned in many, many threads on here, wages in China have been rising at the insistence of the Government putting the final price up.

 

China isn't the only place Hornby use of course, Airfix kits are made in India.

 

And indeed an increasing number of the easier kits are made in the UK, near Newhaven. Humbrol was also brought home, but not to most people's satisfaction in quality terms.

 

Dapol are attempting to re-patriate some of the simpler manufacturing processes, back to Wales. This must be working to some extent as I believe they ordered a second machine a while back?

 

But the key winner in China (for skill and costs) is the detailing work, whether parts, paintwork or lettering, following the production of the bodies, chassis and motors. Attempts by some to find alternative countries have not proven successful. Some suggestions were made, on other threads, that it merely required the training up of another nation's staff to make this work, but apparently not successfully.

 

I guess the economics will eventually dictate the circumstances, but we are not there yet. Hornby's issues cannot rely on anything like that, in the short to medium term anyway. The fact that Chinese exports are taking a bit of a hit at the moment, suggests that model railway production there may have a bit more attention than maybe it might have done, for a while.

 

 

 

 

 

[newbryford]

6 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

The answer is in my post - same point motor, but one is set up to be run by DC and the other by DCC. I don't know how much clearer my post could have been.

 

Not quite correct.

The Digital IP can readily be powered by DC and controlled by pushbuttons (or SPDT switch)

[newbryford]

6 hours ago, Pete Darton said:

DCC concepts has got a poorly chosen name because they sell non DCC components.

 

And your point is?

 

They started out doing DCC stuff and then expanded.

What are they supposed to do? Change name?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Storey]

2 hours ago, Pete Darton said:

Manufacturing maybe cheaper in China but the cost of the product has continued to rise to the customer. Where has the saving gone? Maybe it has saved Hornby from collapsing or has it gone into share holders pockets.

 

there are pro and cons of production in China, we know what the pro are. The con are language issue between head office and China. Less communication between head office and production staff because of distance between the countries causing production issues. Also as China develop economically they will charge more and then what happens to production?

 

The "saving" was that far more complex and detailed models could be produced for less than the very basic models still being produced in Rovex days. The eventual rise in costs surround the highly labour intensive activities needed to produce the fine details and finishes on those products. It is abundantly clear that shareholders in Hornby have not become rich through their holdings. I know you are fairly new to the site, so may not have seen many past threads explaining that. But I would earnestly suggest that you do a teensy-weensy bit of research before levelling such, perhaps innocent, accusations.

 

As the base manufacturing costs equalise (assuming there is a case for investing in such substantial machinery and equipment elsewhere), there might emerge a case for the manufacture in one country and the finishing/detailing activity in another. Much like the way full size cars are produced today, But whether the tariff and non-tariff barriers to such a process, in the Far East, or between the Indian sub-continent and the Far East, would ever make that practical, is mute. We will be getting a taste of that soon, ourselves, if the polticos don't sort something out.

 

It remains a challenge for us to support the continuing affordability of our "hobby" (or obsession as implied elsewhere) based on very cheap labour, with working conditions rather unlikely to be accepted in Western Europe. Do we want Hornby or others to be the Primark (other alleged, exploiters of child and adult labour are available) of our luxuries? I don't.

 

 

[Mike Storey]

5 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

And your point is?

 

They started out doing DCC stuff and then expanded.

What are they supposed to do? Change name?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good point, but you should. Let Bryford go.........

 

[newbryford]

3 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Good point, but you should. Let Bryford go.........

 

 

Somehow, from "the poster formerly known as newbryford" doesn't have the same ring to it...................

 

[Willie Whizz]

11 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

And your point is?

 

They started out doing DCC stuff and then expanded.

What are they supposed to do? Change name?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, it does happen, and a business marketing case for that could certainly be made, though it would be a fine judgment whether it might do more harm than good, in the sense of making existing customers think their preferred manufacturer no longer existed.

[Phil Parker]

Fascinating as discussions on business names are, can we get back to talking about the TV show, please. 

[Prince Of Rails]

16 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

Fascinating as discussions on business names are, can we get back to talking about the TV show, please. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p072q8r9 

This is so funny can't stop laughing poor Simon

[Widnes Model Centre]

18 minutes ago, Prince Of Rails said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p072q8r9 

This is so funny can't stop laughing poor Simon

 

Poor Simon indeed. But looks like those signs look heavy and difficult to take down and put up again.  

Must weigh a lot from what l heard.

[EHertsGER]

Does anyone know if it will be available to stream over here in the USA?

[banburysaint]

And of course some of the banners had the Terrier on them which Simon at the time would have known was also being developed by Hornby... No wonder there was an accerelation in its development! 

[TravisM]

10 minutes ago, EHertsGER said:

Does anyone know if it will be available to stream over here in the USA?

 

Go onto the BBC iPlayer 

[cravensdmufan]

1 minute ago, jools1959 said:

 

Go onto the BBC iPlayer 

Don't think TV on the iPlayer works outside the UK. I couldn't use it even in southern Ireland.  Radio only.

[TravisM]

1 minute ago, cravensdmufan said:

Don't think TV on the iPlayer works outside the UK. I couldn't use it even in southern Ireland.  Radio only.

 

Surprised to hear that as I always assumed that the iPlayer was created to be seen worldwide, ho hum lol.