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BBC Four - James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain


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I think the old guy was there to emphasise the shoddy management that had landed them in the position that Hornby  had found themselves in. SK seems a very switched on guy showing Rails and Hattons that business is full of uncertainty, they will learn from the lesson.

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6 hours ago, barrymx5 said:

The programme may have been SK’s idea but I didn’t think he came out of it too well. The arguments he put forward about the Terrier just was not convincing. In fact, as has been pointed out above, is inaccurate. Hornby under various managements has had a habit of being on the verge of producing a model which did not appear until a rival announced one eg Adams Radial. 

 

A bit similar to Peco seemingly only bringing out bullhead track when challenged by potential rivals!

Edited by Jeff Smith
Autocorrect.....
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I have yet to see episode 2.

 

However, apologies, pedantry warning!

 

Just to be clear - and this is certainly not a complaint, merely an observation -  with the exception of 2 Limited Edition M7s in Drummond and Urie liveries, until Dapol released its B4, there were no LSWR locomotives RTR. I think the B4 is currently the only one.

 

Otherwise, what Hornby and Kernow have produced are ex-LSW locomotives and coaches, which is a rather different matter.  The T9 and Black Motor tooling effectively limits them to ex-SW state, and this is also the case with the Hornby and Kernow coaches.  The Adams Radial in Adams livery is "as preserved", though I think requires little work to bring it back to Adams condition, I suggest that is a happy accident, rather than something Hornby catered for, so does not break the general rule of thinking only in terms of late condition ex-SW models. 

 

Pedantic, yes, but if you describe something as "LSWR", it tends to suggest that a modeller of the LSWR could actually use it!

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9 hours ago, Craig Watson said:

Thought the programme tonight was really interesting again, the thing that jumped out at me was the Hattons rep getting upset over Hornby releasing the class 66 again, how a model which has it's roots in the old Lima tooling can be seen as competition to the forthcoming Hattons version is beyond me, they will appeal to two different markets in my opinion, the Hornby one will appeal to the modeller who's building on their initial train set, who maybe can't afford the Hattons one to begin with, the Hattons one will be the more experienced modellers choice in my opinion.

 

Thought the programme was a great insight into the company, here's to it's future!


Yup, completely different market, I run DC mainly old lima kit because I'm more into signalling that super detailing a class 47. I class myself as an experienced modeller but as a fellow signalling nut said "A true signalling enthusiast would happily roll golf balls around a model railway as long as they adhered to the absolute block regulations!" 

 

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8 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

? Like Warley setting up even as the crowds are massing outside the hall...

 

 

Well I was with my demo stand ;)

 

Well, ok, probably tucking into breakfast

 

Shame I didn't get a feature LOL

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I thought SK was behaving in a rather petty manner with his complaint about the banner on the Rails stand.

I would have just smiled and taken it on the chin that I had been outsmarted.

I loved the Rails dig about corn beef and fillet steak in respect of the Terrier.

I have made previous comments re the lack of QC procedures at Hornby.

Surprise, surprise, to hear that axle/hole diameters are not standard saved items in CAD.

I did not get what the furniture assembly by the new designer had to do with things.

In general I found it an entertaining program. I can see that Hornby will get back into profit. But to recover the lost £30m? that seems a hard task.

Bernard

 

 

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4 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

Shame I didn't get a feature

 

The journos were filmed for a full day and didn't make the grade. :laugh:

 

As Phil and I were wearing BRM shirts as we were doing our own filming we'd have probably had to have been pixellated out, maybe a good thing. Anyway we had our own problems to contend with.

 

 

RMweb itself did actually slip into the programme for a few seconds.

 

 

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Oh and maybe if Rails had agreed to remove the banners from above Hornby's stand then Simon might have been more amenable to a quiet word about the Terrier. He did say he's get his own back ;)

Edited by RedgateModels
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No one has mentioned the VR section of the programme.  If in the near future, you will build your Airfix Spitfire 'on screen' in VR and then take off and fight the dastardly Hun in endless air battles, where does that leave the need for space cluttering real models?  Likewise we have had low definition build your own layout simulators for years, but when they finally crack HD VR railways, any era, place, or stock, again confined to the system of your choice, who will want to take up valuable physical space in ever shrinking sized homes with a real layout. 

 

If I could create a layout where I could take a stroll through the countryside, and watch the shunting in the yard I have created, or get underneath the loco and watch the motion, even sit in the fire-box and watch the coal coming in, perhaps take a drink the pub, be a guest at the wedding, or help fight the fire: in other words be a participant in the the hundred and one different scenarios modellers have created in static models, why would I want to bother with space consuming largely static conventional layout?  If such a system was available now, I perhaps wouldn't even consider traditional railway modeling and I'm in my mid sixties. 

 

Hornby must go down that path, or they will be like the British bike industry of the sixties, blind to the winds of change, luckily the UK is renown for it high quality VR work, so the future should remain bright for Hornby, but we might not recognize the company in the future.

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19 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I thought SK was behaving in a rather petty manner with his complaint about the banner on the Rails stand.

I would have just smiled and taken it on the chin that I had been outsmarted.

 

 

 

He seemed to think that it was an attempt by Rails to diminish the Hornby stand's impact. Realistically, in a big hall, a standholder such as Rails wants to make sure that customers have the best chance of finding their stand.

 

Down to the show manager really to set some rules about this and I am sure Paul J has made a note for this year's show.

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So all we really learned from episode 2 is that we can expect Hornby's stand at Warley 2019 to be substantially taller.

 

It was a shame that viewers were allowed to think that the Terrier was the first time models had been duplicated. I thought the first episode was the better, but both were interesting.

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15 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

He seemed to think that it was an attempt by Rails to diminish the Hornby stand's impact........

 

The Hornby stand last year, diminished itself.

It was a poor affair and slightly semi-amateurish, if there is such a term.

 

The other thing, which last nights part 2 gives some context to, but didn't show (missed a trick there BBC editors) is that apart from the Rails banners above the Hornby stand, the large Hattons stand was located directly opposite the Hornby stand, almost overshadowing it in both size and most notably, exciting new content (i.e. Class 66, Rail head treatment train etc, ).

 

It will be interesting to see if Hornby up their exhibition budget next time round.

 

 

Ron

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I enjoyed watching the programme but I would like to mention a few points.

 

Hornby seems to be rewriting history by suggesting that its ancestry comes from Hornby produced by Meccano.  The present Hornby company is descended from Rovex and Tri-ang Railways. It is still making products introduced by Tri-ang like the R044 black points switch and R8008 Grand Suspension Bridge. Tri-ang brought model railways into the price range of ordinary children and Hornby should be proud of their predecessor.  Perhaps they should have pictures of Lines Brothers in a glass case showing how the name Tri-ang was derived from a triangle representing the three Lines brothers rather than a picture of Frank Hornby.

 

The Terrier is not a model that has nearly always been in the Margate range like the Princess or the Britannia.  The Terrier originated with Dapol and Hornby acquired the tools. Having said that the Terrier has been in the Hornby range for a long time and any rival firm would expect Hornby to upgrade it. If it takes two years to develop a project Hornby's decision to make a new Terrier was probably taken long before Simon Kohler returned to Hornby and before Rails announced their intention to build a Terrier.

 

Similarly the Class 66 has been produced by Bachmann from 2005 and by Hornby from 2007 so I am surprised that Hattons decided to produce a model that is already well catered for

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8 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

The Hornby stand last year, diminished itself.

It was a poor affair and slightly semi-amateurish, if there is such a term.

 

The other thing, which last nights part 2 gives some context to, but didn't show (missed a trick there BBC editors) is that apart from the Rails banners above the Hornby stand, the large Hattons stand was located directly opposite the Hornby stand, almost overshadowing it in both size and most notably, exciting new content (i.e. Class 66, Rail head treatment train etc, ).

 

It will be interesting to see if Hornby up their exhibition budget next time round.

 

 

Ron

 

Who would be an exhibition manager? Setting out the hall to avoid this sort of problem is about as easy as doing the table plan at a wedding where feuding relatives are expected.

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9 hours ago, MrTea said:

 

 

Who’d have thought we’d have had this and the Great Model Railway Challenge (which funnily enough didn’t get a mention) on TV within the space of a few months?

 

 

Although GMRC didn't get a mention, Clucas Bay appeared in one shot!

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32 minutes ago, locoholic said:

So all we really learned from episode 2 is that we can expect Hornby's stand at Warley 2019 to be substantially taller.

 

It was a shame that viewers were allowed to think that the Terrier was the first time models had been duplicated. I thought the first episode was the better, but both were interesting.

 

TBH I preferred the second episode. I thought the first episode had not very much Hornby and too much of the DOGA team and the guy building the Airfix kit and (with respect to the DOGA guys) reinforced the 'sad old men' stereotype that GMRC moved away from.

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21 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

 

The Terrier is not a model that has nearly always been in the Margate range like the Princess or the Britannia.  The Terrier originated with Dapol and Hornby acquired the tools. Having said that the Terrier has been in the Hornby range for a long time and any rival firm would expect Hornby to upgrade it. If it takes two years to develop a project Hornby's decision to make a new Terrier was probably taken long before Simon Kohler returned to Hornby and before Rails announced their intention to build a Terrier.

 

 

SK did remark that the Terrier took a record 9 months from start to finish, so pretty much puts it entirely within his current tenancy at Hornby.

 

Cheers,

Mick

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I'm wondering what the time period was between the new Scalextric project manager starting her design and the parts arriving for the trial assembly?  Surely wheels would be standard parts and therefore be the correct size to fit the axle.  The parts looked to be styrene injection moulded not 3D prints.  If the former, the time to produce moulds would surely be months?

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11 hours ago, delticfan said:

My thoughts exactly the Hattons chap didn’t seem to grasp what Simon was telling him, made him look a bit thick really which I’m sure he isn’t. Lets face it Hornby are the big boy manufacturers and Hattons are box shifters wanna be manufactures which they will have a place but they can’t be both.

 

"Made him look a bit thick" ???

On the contrary, he appeared to really miffed at what is clearly a direct attempt to undermine his business plans.

He is the owner and he, through his company, has risked a very large amount of money in this venture.

 

Despite the supposed "different markets" and the notable differences in quality, detail and price, there will still be a certain degree of dilution of sales of the Hattons model. 

If Hattons retail price has been set very keenly (e.g. to wipe out any price advantage Bachmann could have), then even a modest dilution of sales caused by the cheap Hornby model could possibly jeopardise the profitability of Hattons efforts. I'm hoping not.

 

For years now , Hornby have only offered a couple of liveries each year on this low-rent ex-Lima 66.

All of a sudden, they've decided that this year there will be loads of livery options, mostly duplicating exactly the same liveries Hattons are doing this year.

You could'nt be more blatant about it.

 

As for the comment about retailers can't be manufacturers?

I suggest you look at Walthers.

There are plenty of examples of similar success in other types of business too.

 

 

Ron

Edited by Ron Ron Ron
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1 minute ago, Londoner said:

Why would you see a need to flatten incorrect speculation?

 

Oh, we'll just let people run around with incorrect statements or suggestions then.

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