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BBC Four - James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain


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Anyone who can see how Hornby can get from Cecil B De Kohler ("squeeze it like you mean it") directing his scalextric advert to anything approaching the critically acclaimed, stylish and witty The Lego Movie has a far better imagination than I possess.

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17 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

I had the giraffe and mail coach. I always longed for the ore wagon. Alas, 'twas not to be.

Our model railway club at Winterborne Kingston has got the helicopter car, the operating mail coach and the operating ore wagon set for our Tri-ang layout and our members enjoy playing with these. We also have  a stock car and a baggage car with opening doors from the Tri-ang transcontinental series.

 

These would make good television for James May's next TV series.

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11 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

 

BTW Has anyone found the Scalextric advert that SK was making in-house. I've looked on Youtube but no sign of it.

 

 

 

Is it this one?
 

 

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7 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

Is it this one?

No -  as it should feature two cars flying through the air.

 

Re the VR issue would be an idea for others as well, then for example people could "play" with Bachmanns new announcements each year rather than waiting x years for the actual model  to turn up.  

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53 minutes ago, Keep the Faith said:

 

Exactly. I play with trains (can't pretend it's more sophisticated than playing!) to get myself and the kids away from screens. 

 

If I am wearing VR goggles that isolate me from the world then what is the point of a physical model?

 

AR on the other hand could be a fun additon. Pull a model train into the station and then hold up the iPad to see virtual passengers, freight being loaded, people around Skaledale houses, steam from the loco etc.

 

52 minutes ago, Clearwater said:

@MarkSG @Phil Parker

I agree with both your point and Phil's.  For Hornby to invest directly in developing their own software, kit, marketing etc would be madness.  Others do it already and better.  Hornby doesn't need the distraction from its core business.  However, there is some value in linking their constructional brands to software.  Given they understand how a licensing agreement works, I can see the logic in licensing the scalextrix or Airfix names to some software businesses.  I commented above that I thought this was Hornby kite flying.  Listen to what Kohler was saying - he was seeking to say "we have this, come and talk to me."  If he wanted to develop this in house, we wouldn't have had that segment of the programme.

 

David

Hornby would not do any VR in house, it's not their business it would simply be wrapping Hornby around an off the shelf VR package.

 

What might be interesting would be some sort of Augmented Reality that mixes the real and virtual world - so you run your Flying Scotsman on your railway and the AR adds in scenics/smoke/sounds and life around your trainset - think Pokemon Go for trains.  It would draw in children to physical model railways using the attraction of VR.

Edited by woodenhead
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I watched part 2 last night.

In two minds about some of it.

 

I was disappointed to hear Hattons suggest it was "spite" about the Class 66.

Did they not see the level of detail?  Yes, £75 for a sound model against the ~£260 Hattons is asking is a whole lot of difference.  But there's a whole lot of difference in the models too!

I wouldn't have thought it was spite - Hornby don't have enough money to be spiteful, surely?

 

The Terrier was a bit naughty, and I did feel for the Rails guy.

But this is what business is all about.  Hornby aren't going to tell other businesses what they're making.  I'm glad the Rails guy showed his dismay but came over as the complete opposite to Hattons in that Hornby wern't being spiteful, just trying to drag themselves out of the red.

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8 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

"Every programme that's not live is made in the edit (live programmes are edited in other ways) and you can argue that what you film are just the raw materials for the edit."

 

So editing is a bit like kit building, assembling parts that someone else has produced. But unlike kits, it isn't so obvious when you fit a bit wrongly or leave it out. 

 

However, the programme was about providing "entertainment", which it appears to have done. I wonder whether the producer or director have followed this topic, if so, would they have considered they would have done  anything different? I rather doubt it.

 

It would also be interesting to hear the views of the casual viewers, who probably aren't members of RMweb. What impact the programme will have on Hornby's future is a complete guess, even for the industry pundits on this topic.

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Considering the limitations they had with the ad, I think it turned out well!

 

We pitched to Scalextric a few years ago to do an online advert for them in conjunction with another entity, I would have absolutely loved to make it. I wanted to include a tracking camera on a flat wagon hauled by Flying Scotsman....

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20 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I think the banner business was ridiculous theatre rather than anything else although it might well have been there to add effect to something later in the programme.  

 

No doubt it was staged and done "for the camera" to give the programme a little zest. I'm sure Simon at Hornby is the best of mates with the Rails bloke (seemed so at the end).

 

However, can either firm afford model duplication (Terrier) ? I think a mistake was made here by both firms. No doubt both Terriers will be first class - The way I look at it we (the enthusiast) have lost an unmodelled prototype here. (i.e If Rails had known about the Hornby Terrier they would have made summat else !)

 

The 66 issue is not as important - An expensive detailed one (Hattons) V a much cheaper less detailed one (Hornby) - room in the market for both of those I reckon.

 

I don't "Choose" Hornby over anyone else - I buy the models I want regardless of manufacturer - but price (as always for me) is the ultimate deciding factor.

 

Again best wishes to Hornby, rails, Hattons etc.

 

Brit15

 

 

Edited by APOLLO
Punctuation (sorry Mr Wright !!)
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2 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

"However, can either firm afford model duplication (Terrier) ?. I think a mistake was made here by both firms. No doubt both Terriers will be first class - The way I look at it we (the enthusiast) has lost an unmodelled prototype here. (i.e If Rails had known about the Hornby Terrier they would have made summat else !)"

 

 

 

It is important to recognise that people's emotions, not just simple economics, are involved here. During a career in the motor industry, mainly in manufacturers' dealer "interface" roles, I found that people's motivation was often not the most logical one.

 

So perhaps these model commissioners/manufacturers thoughts included;

  • We can make a better one.
  • We can do that if we want.
  • I bet we can sell more of ours.
  • They've nicked our idea, we'll show them.
  • We've already invested time and money, we aren't stopping now.

RTR buyer's motives are also probably very difficult to define, so there is also a strong possibility that some consumers will buy models from both manufacturers.  Does logic apply whe nit comes to what models are bought. From occasionally reading some of the frothing topics on RMweb I would say not.

 

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I think adb968008's initial point, that Hornby should consider Augmented Reality (AR) as the more natural progression, shouldn't be forgotten/lost in the VR chat.

 

There is a commercial partnership, Hornby and Warner Bros, that is ideally suited to this and the age demographic - if an iPhone/iPad app that supplements these sets, and populates the physically built model railway and trains with augmented wizards and animated stories, is what it takes to get the next generation interested in model railways then I'm all for it (and I'll only demand about 5% of future profits for waiving my intellectual property rights on this particular idea)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

No -  as it should feature two cars flying through the air.

 

Re the VR issue would be an idea for others as well, then for example people could "play" with Bachmanns new announcements each year rather than waiting x years for the actual model  to turn up.  

 

Are you sure? Looked the same to me and there are two cars....

 

1494889582_Screenshot2019-03-15at11_11_45.jpg.092bb42798a698d1380cd4745f81a598.jpg

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

No -  as it should feature two cars flying through the air.

 

It does, about 24 seconds in.

 

Bear in mind that this is a very tightly edited result of what we saw being filmed. Individual shots in adverts can be as short as a second or so - almost a "blink and you'll miss it" scenario.

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39 minutes ago, TFR said:

I think adb968008's initial point, that Hornby should consider Augmented Reality (AR) as the more natural progression, shouldn't be forgotten/lost in the VR chat.

 

There is a commercial partnership, Hornby and Warner Bros, that is ideally suited to this and the age demographic - if an iPhone/iPad app that supplements these sets, and populates the physically built model railway and trains with augmented wizards and animated stories, is what it takes to get the next generation interested in model railways then I'm all for it (and I'll only demand about 5% of future profits for waiving my intellectual property rights on this particular idea)

 

 

 

Imagine if you could film your hogwarts express with your iphone, the app recognises the loco and generates a flying ford anglia zooming around in real time!

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3 hours ago, PMP said:

I bet Boeing are quaking in their boots that they'll be found out that they didn't make the, F15 or F16

Boeing's lawyers are very sharp, hence why the new Airfix F-4 Phantom kits carry a sticker saying they were licensed by Boeing because Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas and the rights to their products (and probably get a cut on every kit sold). Likewise for the North American P-51 Mustang. Perhaps one day one of the locomotive manufactureres will do the same and both Hornby's and Hattons Class 66s will be required to carry a sticker marked "Licensed by Electro-Motive Diesel"

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1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Not quite so bad as the BBC's depiction of a fumbling filming process might suggest, but, still, you see more smoke than cars.  

 

Hornby: The Movie still seems a long way off! 

Most filming looks like the crew are fumbling. I think that is the ad- or at least one version of it-   and it probably does the job. 

 

I can't honestly see VR working for slot car racing- the whole point is that you can't steer the cars and with VR you could, as in any of the many car racing games. VR slot car racing  would be more like tram racing (there's a thought!) . Much the same for model railways, again why you would want a CGI model  railway, except perhaps to trial a plan before building the actual layout* , when you could have a CGI full size railway and there's already a whole hobby around train simulation with scenery modelled etc. Same for Airfix, would you want to assemble a giant VR Spitfire kit or asssemble  and fly a  real Spitfire. 

I can see real potential for AR though.  As people have said, looking at the modelled scene through a phone and seeing things added like passengers boarding, goods vans being loaded, a fully working signal box, the blank board in front of the fiddle yard becoming the train moving through scenery, the station cat actually waking up, could be great fun especially if there was some way of designing your own cameos.  

 

*(I managed to get my Hornby Virtual Railway software working in compatibility mode but compared with Anyrail the design interface is rubbish)

 

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30 minutes ago, Nigel Bunker said:

Boeing's lawyers are very sharp, hence why the new Airfix F-4 Phantom kits carry a sticker saying they were licensed by Boeing because Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas and the rights to their products (and probably get a cut on every kit sold). Likewise for the North American P-51 Mustang. Perhaps one day one of the locomotive manufactureres will do the same and both Hornby's and Hattons Class 66s will be required to carry a sticker marked "Licensed by Electro-Motive Diesel"

 

Following the logic of Boeing buying up McDD etc, the 66 should be "Licensed by Progress Rail" (or possibly even "Licenced by Caterpillar"....)

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16 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

 

*(I managed to get my Hornby Virtual Railway software working in compatibility mode but compared with Anyrail the design interface is rubbish)

 

 

Something you said yesterday set my mind racing.

I had Hornby virtual railway too and it was clunky as you say, and thought about the options available today, what it made me think was to imagine if someone like Hattons partnered with a company like Auran (who make Trainz) to make a Model Railway planning/simulator app. Kind of a development of Hornby's game but with access to product from all manufacturers, allowing you to not only plan your layout as you do with Anyrail, but also the scenics, stock etc, and test it out, to see if you actually enjoy using it. You can then use your plan to create a shopping list (with live updates on price and availability etc. on the Hattons site).

Auran's game engine takes care of all the driving, physics etc., with the product specs. supplied by Hattons.

Whilst not AR or VR, this could exist as a mobile or tablet app, or even a game on Steam or similar.

 

@Hattons Dave something to consider?

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I watched the second part.  I found it not so much James May as the Simon Kohler Show.  He who Hornby decreed they  could do without then thought better of it possibly at very significant cost.  Yes May introduced and interjected during the show.  But the message I got was that Hornby (and perhaps their bankers) deeply regretted the move to Sandwich, were keen to return home and salvage the business if possible despite mounting losses.  

 

All's fair in love and war apparently and there was certainly no love lost between Kohler and the respective managers of Hattons and Rails when it came to apparent rights to certain models.  Certain chapters of history seemed overlooked.  Hornby's Margate premises were, when filmed, as empty as their bank account.  Quite what it must cost in terms of staff relocation (twice) or loss and recruitment (twice) when businesses make such a move is for the accountants to know but possibly for the consumer to pay for.

 

We live in times when small niche manufacturers are making some headway in the marketplace with just one or two products and where a few retailers have ventured into dealing direct with factories for commissions effectively turning them into manufacturing businesses also.  The large players are fighting to stay alive in a shrinking market place where there is also less disposable income among consumers.  

 

Th future is going to be a bumpy ride for some.  That was alluded to in the show and was a message I came away with.  That and to await product and reviews before buying when there is choice.  That is something I do anyway.  

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