BBC Four - James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain

[Robin Brasher]

00 Works has produced models that were gaps in Hornby's range like the Adams Radial, the Drummond 700, the King Arthur and the Pullman Observation car. Fortunately they sold out of them before Hornby produced their models. I hope that one of the smaller manufactures will make a model of something that has not been made before like an SR U class rather than duplicating existing models where they have been discontinued.

 

I don't think that Hornby would ever have produced the Pullman observation car if 00 Works and Golden Age had not produced theirs first.  Hornby's Pullman observation car undercuts the Golden Age version in price.

[AY Mod]

12 hours ago, CME and Bottlewasher said:

As 5 model shops, like pubs, a month fall by the wayside,

 

10 hours ago, CME and Bottlewasher said:

At its worst five model shops a MONTH were closing.

 

There's quite a difference in the two statements and if it had been made in the latter form it may not have been picked up upon. As referenced by others there have been exceptional events which have exceeded that figure on occasions but the statement indicated a steady rate of closure which has been contested. I am sure you are passing on the information quoted in good faith but, despite you saying it's empirical, it hasn't been verified and it may be worth asking the person who related this for further data.

 

9 hours ago, CME and Bottlewasher said:

I have to presume that neither of you are in the trade,

 

I am comfortable that both parties have a sound level of knowledge in this respect, I know what they do and what their background is. Similarly observations over a lengthy period on commentary here indicate that the figure isn't a steady rate, certainly if applied to model shops or stockists of model railway items.

 

8 hours ago, CME and Bottlewasher said:

There is also a certain amount of skullduggery afoot which I cannot and shall not enter into on a public forum.

 

I was hoping that by challenging the initial statement (lest it get repeated by others) would iron out any incorrect information so it's unfortunate that there's now an accusation of unfair practices. There's many things I know but cannot say on a public forum so I don't (but rest assured none of them have anything to do with such practices).

[Robin Brasher]

In Swanage we have got two model shops selling Hornby Railways now whereas a couple of years ago we had none.  The Swanage Railway shop stopped selling Hornby last year due to supply problems but is selling them now and the other model shop opened last year.

 

It looks like when one door closes another one opens.

[Edwardian]

There are model shops and model shops, of course. 

 

Certainly in my location, it is easier to find an outlet selling off-the-peg solutions - RTR locos and rolling stock - set-track - ready-to-plant buildings - pre-made scenics and accessories etc - than it is to find the more traditional shop where I could buy these things but also such things as specialist glues, balsa, copper tube, kits, a healthy second-hand section etc.  

 

As a consequence, I find more modelling supplies at my local art shop than I do in the nearest dedicated model shop.  

 

On the other hand, the local toy shop that sold little by way of models than a token selection of Airfix kits, Humbrol paints, and Hornby RTR now sell none of these things.  Once upon a time, this was common; every small town and many villages would have a shop with some Hornby and Airfix, which was what made these things part of the world of a child. Perhaps the distribution policy has changed.  Perhaps, if it has, this matters less if today's children see everything online.

 

 

[RJS1977]

10 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

In Swanage we have got two model shops selling Hornby Railways now whereas a couple of years ago we had none.  The Swanage Railway shop stopped selling Hornby last year due to supply problems but is selling them now and the other model shop opened last year.

 

It looks like when one door closes another one opens.

 

... which brings the thread round to something I've been thinking about for the last few days.

 

Model shops based at heritage railways have to my mind a great potential for the future of the model railway trade. They have big advantages over the traditional town centre shops of not having to pay rent and have volunteer staff, so no wages to pay. They also get plenty of families visiting - who are important both for the future of heritage railways and the hobby.

 

Porthmadog and Aylesham stations both have thriving model railway shops (I'm sure there are others I can't just think of) and it would be nice to see more heritage railway gift shops moving in this direction. However there's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, both in terms of the amount of capital the shops are prepared to risk on entering the sector (I've persuaded my local heritage railway to make some tentative steps in terms of commissioning some limited edition wagons from Dapol and buying some Railroad Mark 1s from Hattons in their recent sale), and also in terms of advertising, given the limited hours some railways are open and that you can't really advertise as a model shop if you've only got a handful of coaches.

 

Is there anything more the manufacturers (thinking particularly of Hornby) can do to encourage the tentative steps of some of these shops?

[PMP]

The number of retail outlets is a significant element of the hobby. At the Toy Fair, Hornby, (TM), emphasised in conversation the importance of that trade to me, and how they were looking to improve over the recent past. 

 

I’ve just done a noddy statistic check using a contemporary magazine and shop adverts. Criteria was no ‘box shifters’ and an ad that showed a shop frontage, and or a ‘high street’ address with opening times, what we could consider a ‘model shop’. No one whom might be considered a manufacturer either, eg C&L who do both were included either, or those whom are presumably primarily on-line retailers.

Over 20 pages or so 77 ‘shops’

5 per month closure rate about 18 months left before all gone.

1 per month around six years to end game.

 

Obviously that’s a very simplistic approach, but it does highlight how those numbers, if correct, could affect the small retail outlets. If I were a manufacturer, with those sort of projected shop losses, I’d be pulling the shutters down before the shop closures did it for me.

[cambo74]

Only saw the second part fully and wasn't too bad a documentary - i especially liked the part where I had a starring role at the annual gatecrashing of the Warley show - imagine my surprise to find myself staring at my ugly mug in HD on my TV !!!!!

 

Did like the Rails and Hattons reactions to the various announcements ........... I have to agree with them to be honest.

 

Anyways - if anyone wants an autograph - form an orderly queue and sadly for everyone as I'm now world famous then Bens Resprays prices have just doubled !!!!

(only kidding about that part) ......

 

Ben

[adb968008]

My back pack was famous by its TV appearance at Warley.

it’ll be on ebay shortly.

 

:-)

[MarkSG]

11 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

I attended a local exhibition this Saturday.  There were maybe 20 odd layouts, two O gauge, one EM, one HO, a couple of N gauge, several 009, a couple of Z gauge the rest OO.  All, as far as I could tell were predominantly RTR.  Also there were several traders selling new and used RTR, almost all the OO were Hornby.  The only kits were structure or road vehicle, although I did see some old Ratio coach kits.  Not a single loco kit.....This probably reinforces the gulf between the RTR side of the hobby and the kit/scratch builders.

 

 

Part of that, though, is the increase in quality (and breadth of range) of RTR.

 

Once upon a time - certainly, when I first got into the hobby as a teenager - a well-constructed loco kit resulted in a better model than the RTR offerings of the day. Kitbuilding was also the only way to get anything other than the relatively limited (compared to today) selection offered by the manufacturers. Or, to be more precise, manufacturer, as Hornby was, pretty much, it, until Palitoy launched the Mainline range (which was a game changer in many ways). So there was an incentive to construct kits, and gain the skills necessary to do so. I was never hugely good at it, but my early layouts had a few K's kits on them, and I've still got one, somewhere, in a box in the garage. Also, kits were cheaper than RTR, which mattered a lot!

These days, though, you have to be really, really good at kitbuilding to construct a kit to a higher standard than a contemporary RTR loco. Of course, it can still be done and some people do do it. But it's no longer the near-necessity that it once was.

 

The other big reason for the demise of loco kits is that the demographics have changed. On average, modellers are richer than they were when I was a teenager. I know that's a dangerous generalisation to make, as there will always be someone who pipes up with "But I don't have much money!". But, statistically, it is true. Not only are we older, on average (and therefore more likely to be in relatively well-paid jobs or to be retired and have an above-average disposable income), but the economy as a whole is vastly different to what it was when I was a young teenager. We (collectively, if not necessarily every individual) can afford to spend far more on the hobby than we used to. I know that there are always howls of complaint when prices rise, and when a new model is priced at an eye-watering level. But they still sell. We are in the fortunate position of being able to demand quality, and pay for it.

 

This is also where railway modelling parts company with the market supplied by, for example, Airfix. With a plastic aircraft kit, the whole point of buying it is for the pleasure of constructing it. And, having built it, all you do with it is put it on display on a shelf so that you can admire your handiwork. Railway modellers, by contrast, buy models mostly to run, rather than look at. Why spend six months building a kit when you can take it out of the box and have it running on the layout in minutes? For most of us, that's a no-brainer. 

 

Now, of course, that doesn't mean that kits are completely superfluous. Wagon kits, in particular, still fill a valuable niche, because they still play an important role in filling gaps in the RTR ranges and are simple enough to put together over the course of a few evenings rather than months. I've got a few kits on the go, and some waiting to be constructed. But I could do without them if I had to. The kits I have bought are filling gaps, but they are considerably outnumbered by the RTR models. Unlike when I was a teenager, when most of the rolling stock on my layout was Peco "Wonderful Wagons".

 

I agree, though, that this reinforces the gulf between RTR and scratchbuilding. Back in the day, there was a fairly obvious progression from train set to kits to scratchbuilding, even if most of us never got further than the second stage (I did scratchbuild one wagon, once!). These days, though, the progression is train set RTR to detailed RTR, and kits don't really come into it as far as locos and rolling stock are concerned. Instead, we focus our creative energy on kitbuilding and scratchbuilding scenery (although even there, RTP is making more and more inroads) and weathering the RTR models we do buy (although factory weathering is making inroads into that, too). 

 

So you could argue that the hobby is gradually being deskilled, and I suppose that, to some extent, it is. But, against that, we're less and less tolerant of compromises when it comes to a working, exhibition-standard layout. Finescale is a much bigger segment than it was in my teens. Even in bog-standard OO, the level of scenic modelling on display at a typical exhibition is generally much better than than it used to be. A layout based primarily on RTR locos and rolling stock may require fewer technical skills than it used to, but I think we employ more creativity and artistry than was once the case. Skills evolve rather than disappear.

[Invicta]

 

13 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

I think this dates back to the autumn, when there seemed to be some sharing of resources amongst the main model retailers, that I dont think received the level of comment it deserved.

 

Now, you can buy your Kernow O2 from Hattons  and your Hattons Barclay and P from Rails, Kernow and several others. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Possibly not just the bigger ones, either. I noticed my local model shop had some Heljan-for-Hatton's Co-Bos on display recently.

 

John

 

The last couple of shows I've been to, TTC Diecast (Derby IIRC?) have had pretty much the full selection of Hattons Ps and Barclays and a fair choice of Warwells available on their stand- Presumably this kind of resource-sharing makes sense for both the commissioner/retailers who get to increase the visibility of their own product in the market place, and the individual retailer who get a wider range of product to sell.

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

My back pack was famous by its TV appearance at Warley.

it’ll be on ebay shortly.

 

:-)

 

Its got to be done....

 

L00K!!!!  RARE!!!!!   As Seen On TV!!!!!

 

 

[Liam]

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I haven't seen it yet so can't comment on the programme itself.

 

But if there was any real animosity then I doubt I would have received an email from Rails the other day telling me to buy Hornby Terriers. It even says Buy Now!

 

 

 

Jason

 

Same with Hattons and the class 66s - they’re available on the website for pre-order, and not at a bad price too.

 

Incidentally, has anyone got any idea why for some smaller retailers the price of ‘Evening Star’ and 66789 are more than the others? I’m really tempted by 66789, to the extent where I’m considering adapting my diesel depot plans accordingly, but some places charge £90 for those two while the others (including the Flying Dustman) are priced at £75. 

 

 

[NIK]

Hi,

 

Hattons have been offering some of their own products on wholesale terms since the 22nd October 2018 as reported on this forum https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138639-hattons-wholesale/&do=findComment&comment=3339515

 

As regards the Hornby Terrier - it was a possibility that Hornby would eventually get round to updating this model as its small and carried many liveries. 

 

Regarding VR my impression of video game type development for PCs is that it is more expensive than developing a model loco and is vulnerable to becoming obsolete with updates to Windows. Maybe that was why Simon Kohler mentioned the advantage of always owning a physical item. Hornby Virtual Railway is the only piece of commercial software that failed to work on my laptop after installation so I think Hornby ought to be very careful about expanding their software. I have thought about animated model railway backscenes for the future - once wide viewing angle displays such as OLED become cheaper. Multi'player' software may become a thing where railway modellers with some stock in common take part in a part real part virtual model railway wherever they are in the world. Say a Class 800 bimode leaves a terminus and goes into a tunnel on one layout, the software lets the next operator drive his version of the train from his fiddle yard into his through station and then into another fiddle yard etc.

 

As to the programme itself it seemed a contrast to the Great Model Railway Challenge - the BBC one using the typical image of model railway enthusiasts as part of the entertainment. At least Bachmann and Dapol got a mention - the first time I remember them being mentioned on the TV.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Edwardian]

23 minutes ago, NIK said:

 

As regards the Hornby Terrier - it was a possibility that Hornby would eventually get round to updating this model as its small and carried many liveries. 

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

But, given that any plans were in abeyance until, on my understanding of his own on-camera explanation, Simon Kohler dusted them off and rushed them through in the wake of the Rails/Dapol announcement, it is unclear that we would have had a new Hornby tool in our lifetimes had not Rails/Dapol decided to make one. 

 

One suspects that anyone who chooses "corned beef" might thank the producers of "fillet steak" for the fact they have that choice!

[Workbench52]

21 hours ago, The Johnster said:

'What an artist dies with me'!

 

This is a nice idea and I like anything that encourages people to have a go, even if it's only improving what came out the box with a coat of weathering gunge.  The Brake 3rd has the correct number of clerestory windows and ventilators, and the roofs are not identical.  The Second, which Triang described as a composite, has the clerestory window lights at the correct spacing to match the compartments, spaced differently to those on the Brake 3rd.  This was in line with the standard Triang coaches of 1961, short mk1 compos, RK, and Brake 2nds, and the 'matching' freelance suburbans, which had proper moulded roof detail including periscopes on the brakes.  But while the bodies are very adaptable to cut 'n shut modelling. there are no underframes; the coach is 'monocoque' with an added moulding for the trusses and vac cylinder, the same one as on all Triang coaches. 

 

I have 3 shorty clerestories which I've worked up to represent a late 40s-early 50s South Wales Miner's workman's; the last such coaches in service ended their days on such work in the area in the mid 50s.  I have replaced the buffers, provided compartment dividers and seating, glazed the clerestory lights, and had a go at the mk1 bogies.  These are not bad mk1s, especially considering their age, though of course wrong entirely for these coaches which need Dean 8'6" bogies (but not the ones from the Hornby gangwayed Deans).

 

I've cut the tie bar out, and fabricated footboards from real treewood, actually Sainsbury cafe coffee stirrers cut in half lengthways and then cut to length.  You need to cut rebates in footboards to clear the axleboxes, and then it can be simply superglued in position.; not scale modelling but what I describe as 'impressionist', in that they look not unlike Dean non gangwayed clerestories for the purposes of the 2 foot rule.  I may replace them in time with cast whitemetal Deans of the proper type, but it feels like overkill on coaches that'll never be scale models of anything anyway!

 

There are some photos if you can be bothered looking on my layout topic (on 'Layout Topics') 'South Wales Valleys in the 50s, but you've probably got a life...

Yes, I did find the photos thanks. Took a bit of finding as you are an amazingly prolific member with well over 7,000 posts/comments . . . . . Wow !!!

 

I see what you mean about the roof's being different. I will get mine out again sometime but at present they are buried in a box in a trunk up in the loft! At the demos I used to encourage people to buy cheap second hand models and do them up . . . then if the worst happened they have lost much. The only thing now is that the second hand prices seem to be climbing to keep pace with the new ready to run prices. Old Triang stuff is still quite cheap though.

 

This is an example. The old refrigerated van is a bit of a dogs breakfast but, surprisingly, the body moulding is almost spot on. The prototype they chose is really obscure, being a Hull & Barnsley Railway vehicle. Presumably they were used to bring frozen food, like New Zealand lamb, from the docks inland to Barnsley and beyond. I suspect they chose it as they found the drawing in the old 'Wagon Drawings Book' by Roche and noticed it would fit their standard chassis.

 

As an exercise I limited what I did and used as much of the original model, albeit altered, as possible. I didn't want to get into that silly situation most of the wagon was replaced. . . . but at least the buffers were from the original!! That wasn't the point.

 

So I trimmed the roof to the correct size, fitted proper vents, and added vac pipes to the body. Most of the work was on the chassis. I couldn't be sure from the drawing if it was wood or steel. I suspect it probably would have been wood, but some steel chassis were coming in at that time and tended to go on posh priority fitted vehicles, like this, first. So I left it as a steel one, trimmed off all but the lever and V hanger from the brake gear, fitted a cross shaft and links to the cylinder and fitted clasp brakes.

 

The real wheels were 3' 6" (as the wagons were expected to travel at passenger speeds) so the original Triang ones were quite close, in reality being a bit too big to represent the standard wagon 3' 1" wheels. The real wheels were the Mansel type with wooden segments so I just cut discs from plasticard, painted them to represent the wood centres and force fitted them into the Triang wheels. Surprisingly, they looked quite good!

 

Lastly I made up a set of steps for each side below the doors with brass wire & scraps and added a couple of other details from bits of plastic or brass. Then it was just a full repaint and the fiddly job of picking out all the ironwork on the body in black. The cost of the original was £2 (I brought two and kept one to show how it started life) and the only additional parts, that weren't just bits of scrap plastic or metal, were the roof vents. So for £3 and a couple of hours work you had a reasonably scale wagon. It certainly meets your "2 foot test"!  The photos aren't too flattering as they are larger than the original and the flash illuminates parts that would normally be shaded ( a problem that is even worse with N gauge models!)

Edited March 18, 2019 by Workbench52
Corrections

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

00 Works has produced models that were gaps in Hornby's range like the Adams Radial, the Drummond 700, the King Arthur and the Pullman Observation car. Fortunately they sold out of them before Hornby produced their models. I hope that one of the smaller manufactures will make a model of something that has not been made before like an SR U class rather than duplicating existing models where they have been discontinued.

 

I don't think that Hornby would ever have produced the Pullman observation car if 00 Works and Golden Age had not produced theirs first.  Hornby's Pullman observation car undercuts the Golden Age version in price.

 

And on weight.

[wainwright1]

27 minutes ago, Workbench52 said:

Yes, I did find the photos thanks. Took a bit of finding as you are an amazingly prolific member with well over 7,000 posts/comments . . . . . Wow !!!

 

I see what you mean about the roof's being different. I will get mine out again sometime but at present they are buried in a box in a trunk up in the loft! At the demos I used to encourage people to buy cheap second hand models and do them up . . . then if the worst happened they have lost much. The only thing now is that the second hand prices seem to be climbing to keep pace with the new ready to run prices. Old Triang stuff is still quite cheap though.

 

This is an example. The old refrigerated van is a bit of a dogs breakfast but, surprisingly, the body moulding is almost spot on. The prototype they chose is really obscure, being a Hull & Barnsley Railway vehicle. Presumably they were used to bring frozen food, like New Zealand lamb, from the docks inland to Barnsley and beyond. I suspect they chose it as they found the drawing in the old 'Wagon Drawings Book' by Roche and noticed it would fit their standard chassis.

 

As an exercise I limited what I did and used as much of the original model, albeit altered, as possible. I didn't want to get into that silly situation most of the wagon was replaced. . . . but at least the buffers were from the original!! That wasn't the point.

 

So I trimmed the roof to the correct size, fitted proper vents, and added vac pipes to the body. Most of the work was on the chassis. I couldn't be sure from the drawing if it was wood or steel. I suspect it probably would have been wood, but some steel chassis were coming in at that time and tended to go on posh priority fitted vehicles, like this, first. So I left it as a steel one, trimmed off all but the lever and V hanger from the brake gear, fitted a cross shaft and links to the cylinder and fitted clasp brakes.

 

The real wheels were 3' 6" (as the wagons were expected to travel at passenger speeds) so the original Triang ones were quite close, in reality being a bit too big to represent the standard wagon 3' 1" wheels. The real wheels were the Mansel type with wooden segments so I just cut discs from plasticard, painted them to represent the wood centres and force fitted them into the Triang wheels. Surprisingly, they looked quite good!

 

Lastly I made up a set of steps for each side below the doors with brass wire & scraps and added a couple of other details from bits of plastic or brass. Then it was just a full repaint and the fiddly job of picking out all the ironwork on the body in black. The cost of the original was £2 (I brought two and kept one to show how it started life) and the only additional parts, that weren't just bits of scrap plastic or metal, were the roof vents. So for £3 and a couple of hours work you had a reasonably scale wagon. It certainly meets your "2 foot test"!  The photos aren't too flattering as they are larger than the original and the flash illuminates parts that would normally be shaded ( a problem that is even worse with N gauge models!)

 

[wainwright1]

Hi Workbench52.

 

This looks very nice. Its a pity that Hornby don't upgrade some of their older fairly accurate wagons to more modern standard. The L.N.E.R. bogie brick wagon and Southern bogie utility van also spring to mind.

I seem to remember an article in a magazine some years ago where a similar upgrade was carried out on this van.

In that case, the whole chassis was replaced with a Peco one, as used in their Wonderful wagons. Basically they had to plot the position of the prongs for the chassis components onto the underside of the van and then drill holes for them. This obviously gave them the bonus of a wagon with working buffers and suspension, but I cannot remember if they cut off the mounts for the Peco couplings. Then the steps were added.

I think that the Peco chassis components may still be available.

I hope that this is of interest.

Ray

 

[Dunsignalling]

26 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

But, given that any plans were in abeyance until, on my understanding of his own on-camera explanation, Simon Kohler dusted them off and rushed them through in the wake of the Rails/Dapol announcement, it is unclear that we would have had a new Hornby tool in our lifetimes had not Rails/Dapol decided to make one. 

 

One suspects that anyone who chooses "corned beef" might thank the producers of "fillet steak" for the fact they have that choice!

Hornby must have stuck their partly developed model into the pending cupboard at least three quarters done in order to be able to get it on sale so quickly, and they clearly wouldn't have left it in limbo indefinitely. Possibly until sales of their old one started to flag and/or the tooling began to show signs of wear.

 

My gut feeling is that the difference the Rails announcement made to Hornby's strategy probably amounted to three or four years.

 

John

 

 

[Ravenser]

23 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I think re-issuing back catalogue items such as LOTI and the shortie clerestories is a knee-jerk response the demand for these products on 'Bay; prices here have dropped through the bottom since the re-issue was announced.  It is a cheap and easy exercise for H so long as they still have the toolings, and can be done relatively quickly, but there has been no attempt to improve the models or bring them to a modern standard, and the interiorless shorties are still on mk1 bogies having never been updated since 1961 except for the bogie mounting.  This may be damaging in the long term, as the company is less likely to introduce (and benefit from the profitability of) a re-tooled Dean Single, and will continue to produce the old model which is not acceptable to people used to modern standards of detail and daylight beneath boilers, even Railroad customers, likewise the coaches which are the wrong length and of indeterminate prototypes.  The Dean gangwayed coaches are also due a revisit, as their lack of moulded panelling is a major drawback.

 

It is my belief that modern standard models of these items, inevitably much more expensive of course, would sell very well; there is very little competition in this sector of the market.  Hornby may claim that it is a bit niche, but the coaches especially were in service for many years, well in to the 'period 3' era, which is not by any means niche but pretty mainstream!  Rapido are making a go of the Stirling single, and that hasn't even got any coaches to run with it! 

 

But Hornby will have to pause to draw breath over the next year or so after this year's phenomenal (and very creditable) effort, and investors will probably want to see some of their money back before endorsing further expansion for a while, so not much is going to happen any time soon in this respect.

 

I think LOTI is not worth retooling. None preserved , all gone by WW1. Pre-grouping modelling is less prominent than it was in 1960

 

The singles that are worth tooling have longer ranges. The Stirling Single was used on specials in 1938, and on the GC in the late 1980s . That means you can sell  it to LNER modellers (Grantham has one) or BR Blue modellers (I've idly thought about getting one to run as a "steam special" on 2 blue/grey Mk1s , but so far the price has deterred an impulse buy)

 

Caledonian 123 looks at first sight like a risky choice. But in reality it was out and about on specials in the 1950s , and  is preserved, so its another model with covering a lot of periods ( pre-group /LMS / BR 1950s ), and arguably a better candidate for new tooling than LOTI. Grampian coaches ran into the 1950s.

 

City of Truro has been a considerable success for Bachmann for similar reasons . It can be run in a LOT of periods. This is the market niche Heljan have tapped with their prototype diesels, and Bachmann with the LMS twins - glamourous widely travelled singletons at a premium price

 

The Johnson Spinners might be a good candidate - in traffic to 1928 (so LMS as well) and preserved , so a " running in preservation" model would not be incredible

 

And I'm sure someone one day will do Hardwicke , which ticks these boxes as well, and is a perfect interwar branchline engine. Suitable coaches are available from Ratio

 

Dean coaches are another matter. There's a good case for doing a set of Dean coaches to modern standard, they just need something glamourous and Edwardian to pull them

 

[CME and Bottlewasher]

9 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

 

There's quite a difference in the two statements and if it had been made in the latter form it may not have been picked up upon. As referenced by others there have been exceptional events which have exceeded that figure on occasions but the statement indicated a steady rate of closure which has been contested. I am sure you are passing on the information quoted in good faith but, despite you saying it's empirical, it hasn't been verified and it may be worth asking the person who related this for further data.

 

 

I am comfortable that both parties have a sound level of knowledge in this respect, I know what they do and what their background is. Similarly observations over a lengthy period on commentary here indicate that the figure isn't a steady rate, certainly if applied to model shops or stockists of model railway items.

 

 

I was hoping that by challenging the initial statement (lest it get repeated by others) would iron out any incorrect information so it's unfortunate that there's now an accusation of unfair practices. There's many things I know but cannot say on a public forum so I don't (but rest assured none of them have anything to do with such practices).

Andy

 

Please PM me. I have spent an hour or so, with a subject matter expert working through statements made on here, via PM - and by and large we are in agreement.

 

I have made the information as clear as it can be, in the written word. I've also tried to end this aspect of the conversation as I feel it detracts from the thread now.

 

There is little difference in my two statements that I can see. The only difference is time (on here) and time scales in the real world. There are small shoots of recovery I admit, but other aspects are now impacting on those.

 

Canvassing friends last night, they rattled off numerous model shops that had fallen in the past five years - none had been replaced.

 

Some model shops are specific to model railways and some are not, they're generic - some on here may have missed that point? But those shops went nevertheless. And such was noted and commented upon by a longstanding rep for an importer/distrubutor/wholesaler, whom I also quoted - my only mistake was not using quotation marks. And I cannot state names of individuals or companies.

 

Its similar with some cottage industries too.

 

In my home town/and within a five mile radius, over a longer time period admittedly, we have lost 5 model shops. Two are hanging on in there, one is struggling and the other belongs to time served, retiree's, supplementing their pensions.

 

On here? It appears to be a lot of fuss about nothing - except questioning my integrity? But for the shop owners? Its a battle for survival - I hope that is easing.

 

I'm beginning to feel like Simon Kohler after 66/Terrier-gate.

 

I can't state any further without betraying confidences or commercially sensitive information, that I have been truthful and factual. Agreed some information is on good faith, from honourable fellows who are subject matter experts.

 

To me, folk, appear to be burying their heads in the sand, if simple information is not believed.

 

No one has yet stated the ratio of start ups to closures (and how many start ups are making it work for longer than two years), all that has happened is that I've had pot shots fired at me and I'm only the messenger.

 

One individual Im aware of, a model shop, proprietor, could fully detail to you, in private, what 'skullduggery' he is being made to suffer at the hands of model railway OEMs and larger retailers. I recently met him at a show and the buyer for a local chain of generic model shops (who also sells model railway equipment), and they were singing from the same hymn sheet. Others too, however, they don't go on forums. In addition such is commercially sensitive.

 

I'm disappointed that you don't believe me. But that appears to be how the modern world is going when online?

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

Edited March 18, 2019 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Legend]

the Caley  123 has been done to death . If that was the tooling that was lost I’ll not weep, it’ll prevent Simon Kohler releasing it as a token Caley loco like he has done for years  . If you were going to expense of tooling or retooling  please do something else instead , like a Dunalastair , something more typical of the Caley than the 123. I think some of the later 4-4-0 lasted until early BR black . 

[The Stationmaster]

Sorry to go wildly off topic, I apologise in advance.

 

I live not far from a town which once a had an excellent model railway shop (Eames) - it closed years ago because of retirements and the ending of the lease in order to redevelop the site.  in the past decade the town has seen both of its remaining model shops close - Modelzone because of the failure of the chain and a local concern Hobby Centre for whatever reason but most likely renewal of the lease and perhaps falling sales (it stocked very little Hornby and no other model railway stuff).  Our local model shop closed several years ago following flooding damage from the flat above and the insurance assessors refusing the full claim, it sold Hornby and Bachmann, nothing else.

 

In the past 5 years one new shop, selling Hornby and Bachmann, has opened 5 miles away and seems thus far to be prospering while another new model shop (I don't know if it does model railways?) has opened about 12 miles away.  So in the past decade 3 local(ish) shops have gone and two have opened.

 

Sorry to not be quoting names of various studies or whatever retail trade 'experts' happen to be spluttering (some experts in my experience tend to splutter, or maybe that should be splatter us with statistics)u but I can only talk about things I'm directly aware of. 

 

Now can we please get back to the subject of the thread?

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, SVRlad said:

 

Same with Hattons and the class 66s - they’re available on the website for pre-order, and not at a bad price too.

 

Incidentally, has anyone got any idea why for some smaller retailers the price of ‘Evening Star’ and 66789 are more than the others? I’m really tempted by 66789, to the extent where I’m considering adapting my diesel depot plans accordingly, but some places charge £90 for those two while the others (including the Flying Dustman) are priced at £75. 

 

 

 

£74.99 direct from Hornby so I don't know why other places are charging more.

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/locomotives/diesel-electric-locomotives/gbrf-class-66-co-co-66789-british-rail-1948-1997-era-11.html

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/locomotives/diesel-electric-locomotives/gbrf-class-66-co-co-66779-evening-star-era-10.html

 

 

 

Jason

[CME and Bottlewasher]

21 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Sorry to go wildly off topic, I apologise in advance.

 

I live not far from a town which once a had an excellent model railway shop (Eames) - it closed years ago because of retirements and the ending of the lease in order to redevelop the site.  in the past decade the town has seen both of its remaining model shops close - Modelzone because of the failure of the chain and a local concern Hobby Centre for whatever reason but most likely renewal of the lease and perhaps falling sales (it stocked very little Hornby and no other model railway stuff).  Our local model shop closed several years ago following flooding damage from the flat above and the insurance assessors refusing the full claim, it sold Hornby and Bachmann, nothing else.

 

In the past 5 years one new shop, selling Hornby and Bachmann, has opened 5 miles away and seems thus far to be prospering while another new model shop (I don't know if it does model railways?) has opened about 12 miles away.  So in the past decade 3 local(ish) shops have gone and two have opened.

 

Sorry to not be quoting names of various studies or whatever retail trade 'experts' happen to be spluttering (some experts in my experience tend to splutter, or maybe that should be splatter us with statistics)u but I can only talk about things I'm directly aware of. 

 

Now can we please get back to the subject of the thread?

Nice to hear.

 

Agreed.

 

Atvb

 

CME