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BBC Four - James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain


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I have always been rather suspicious of passion in manufacturing. Energy, expertise, probity, team orientation, solid hard graft and a humble respect for the data are what get the results in manufacturing.

 

Entertainment is something completely other. Fruitcakes to the front basically, , egotistical, arrogant, passionate- we have a role for you. Need I name examples?

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18 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I have always been rather suspicious of passion in manufacturing. Energy, expertise, probity, team orientation, solid hard graft and a humble respect for the data are what get the results in manufacturing.

 

But this isn't a show about manufacturing - if it was we'd have "enjoyed" 60 minutes watching someone press a button on an injection moulding machine.

 

Passion for a product is essential, at least to generate the sales without which there's no point in the manufacturing.

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34C

 

Ah, but manufacturing, however soberly and diligently conducted, doesn't, of itself understand the market, or sell things. It just makes stuff very well, sometimes even stuff stuff that nobody wants.

 

An organisation that seeks to understand potential customers, then sell things to them, typically does need a few gregarious people, even some passionate people.

 

Kevin

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Well, I was reassured about the people in charge at Hornby.

 

However, I was very disappointed with the programme. It seemed to me that there was a lot of filler material —the bit about the Great Electric Train Show, for example. Probably the worthwhile material could have been fitted in to 15 minutes—half an hour at most.

 

Since the G.E.T.S is associated with Hornby Magazine, I wonder if they'd thought that HM was owned by Hornby, and only realised later that it wasn't?

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6 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Since the G.E.T.S is associated with Hornby Magazine, I wonder if they'd thought that HM was owned by Hornby, and only realised later that it wasn't?

 

Unlikely. They worked very closely with Hornby on this project.  If I were the big H, and being filmed, it's the show I'd be inclined to get them along to what with plenty of banners saying "Hornby" spread around. That said, they also filmed at Warley last year.

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5 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Well, I was reassured about the people in charge at Hornby.

 

However, I was very disappointed with the programme. It seemed to me that there was a lot of filler material —the bit about the Great Electric Train Show, for example. Probably the worthwhile material could have been fitted in to 15 minutes—half an hour at most.

 

Since the G.E.T.S is associated with Hornby Magazine, I wonder if they'd thought that HM was owned by Hornby, and only realised later that it wasn't?

At the end of the day this is a marketing exercise by the new Hornby management to show they are bringing the company back to the modellers so they needed to show Simon Kohler at the coalface talking to modellers to demonstrate that - GETS was on during the filming period.

 

This is standard fly on the wall programming - a little bit of joking, a little bit of last minute changes/problems and lots of promotion of the central company. 

 

The filler wasn't the ham the Airfix kit builder had on his sandwich, it was watching him eat it at his dinner table.

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9 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

At the end of the day this is a marketing exercise by the new Hornby management to show they are bringing the company back to the modellers so they needed to show Simon Kohler at the coalface talking to modellers to demonstrate that - GETS was on during the filming period.

 

And, more pertinently, it was the first show (or, at least, the first major show where Hornby had an official presence) that SK attended after his return. That was directly relevant to the timeline of the programme. While Warley might have seemed more important to most of us, it wouldn't have the same impact in the context.

 

(Having said that, I've never been to the GETS, but it looked quite impressive on the programme. I might go along this year; it's just about within my show-going range).

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3 hours ago, Mrhoppity said:

 However, am I the only one who found James May's approach a bit patronising and condescending? 

 

I certainly did not. I think his style was open, accessible and interesting. Most of all it was fun and didn't take the subject matter too seriously. After all this is a hobby for fun... all any of us are doing, from the 7-year old with a trainset to the bods at Pendon and Scaleforum, is playing with you trains. 

 

For the new entrant to the hobby, seeing a Copenhagen Fields, Stoke Summit or Pendon is all very well and good but somewhat overwhelming. Seeing a trainset based on a Hornby Trackmat or a micro layout that they can store under the bed might make them think... "yes I can have a go at this."

 

2 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Diversity will come if people with a latent interest are exposed to the hobby, and possibly if the hobby presents itself in novel, interesting and exciting ways.  We need, possibly - and wait for a really bad pun - to think outside the box on this one!

 

To describe 'lack of diversity' as a 'sad indictment' is, I think, unduly negative.  I reckon if you were to study the demographics of most 'niche' or specialist hobbies, a 'typical' participant profile would be apparent, it's not unique to railway modelling and we sometimes are in danger of fixating on it.

 

 

Represented, yes, but we can't lose sight of the fact that between starting school and retiring, many people have restrictions on time, money and space.  Perhaps what should be emphasised are non-traditional/ stereotyped modelling pursuits, where traditional (certainly for me) equates to a big layout, not a box-file, diorama or shunting puzzle.  And these could be pursued while bringing up children, working or caring for family members etc...  I would love to do more modelling, but since the mid eighties (when I went to uni) it's been squeezed out by evolving combinations of all the above constraints.

 

Fair enough but we are all entitled to our opinions and I do think it is sad. When I go to the football, there is a good spread of ages, gender, social background, ethnicity - something representative of the country and showing it is accessible and welcoming to all. Similarly in the musical groups I am involved with, there is a good spread of folk. 

 

I too am at the age where I am squeezed for time, money and space, so modelling normally takes a back seat. I understand what you are saying but it would be nice to see others featured rather than the stereotypical demographic (and dare I say a handful of boring old fuddy duddies). Again just my opinion and that last statement is somewhat tongue in cheek. 

 

You are right though, diversity will hopefully come with exposure. If this programme brings just a handful of new and returning people to the hobby then it can only be a positive thing. Even ten yeats ago we could never dream pf the amount of publicity railway modelling has got recently in the mainstream media - the C5 show, this programme (and the one which followed) aired at primetime on a BBC channel, the articles in the written press about Jules Holland's layout to name but a few. This is really positive and hopefully raises the profile enormously. As a 'community' we should be fully embracing it. Positivity was my overhwelming feeling after watching.

 

I'm looking to next week's episode! 

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GETS is a very ‘mainstream’ show, nothing much very specialised, off-beat, quirky, or other than 4mm (00?), so it’d be worth going to if that is what you are into. But, I wouldn’t recommend it if your interest is very far from completely mainstream.

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33 minutes ago, D1051 said:

My burning question is who are the two(or three). Involved with the bust up in the next program ?

 

I've heard a rumour that James May and that grumpy old bloke from Margate are involved in a bit of ultimate cage fighting...... 

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32 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

At the end of the day this is a marketing exercise by the new Hornby management to show they are bringing the company back to the modellers so they needed to show Simon Kohler at the coalface talking to modellers to demonstrate that - GETS was on during the filming period.

 

This is standard fly on the wall programming - a little bit of joking, a little bit of last minute changes/problems and lots of promotion of the central company. 

 

The filler wasn't the ham the Airfix kit builder had on his sandwich, it was watching him eat it at his dinner table.

 

It was marketing to some extent but it was warts and all too. It identified  the problems and issues with the company and didn't pull any punches. I don't think it was unduly sanitised. Any 'fly on the wall' show like this has to provide entertainment to the viewers too and there's nothing wrong with a bit of drama. We all know some aspects will have been staged but it is part of the fun. An hour of watching some plastic moulding in Margate or that guy playing with his animal sounds would have been as dull as with water...... 

 

Marketing? Maybe? Publicity and exposure?  Certainly! Only a positive for both Hornby and the whole hobby.

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8 minutes ago, south_tyne said:

Marketing? Maybe? Publicity and exposure?  Certainly! Only a positive for both Hornby and the whole hobby.

That's all the same thing.

 

Hornby need to generate exposure to generate interest and more sales after their aggressive entry into 2019 with it's models, this programme is part of the strategy, they wouldn't be doing the programme if it didn't offer a positive spin for the current management.

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Just now, woodenhead said:

That's all the same thing.

 

Hornby need to generate exposure to generate interest and more sales after their aggressive entry into 2019 with it's models, this programme is part of the strategy, they wouldn't be doing the programme if it didn't offer a positive spin for the current management.

 

Agreed. They are commercial business - ultimately the name of the game is to make money. They will presumably taks any opportunity or avenue available that potentially boosts sales.

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Just now, Pete Darton said:

These are the sort of people Hornby should be consulting about future products.

 

Some; maybe.

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1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

if it was we'd have "enjoyed" 60 minutes watching someone press a button on an injection moulding machine.

If that's what you really think is encompassed by the term manufacturing, that's deeply disappointing.

 

What comes first, product or excitement about the product? No product, ultimately nothing to get excited about. Seen any results of excitement generated over future products that then don't appear?

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2 minutes ago, Pete Darton said:

Hope Hornby are following this forum post because it’s a great way to find out what people think of them. 

 

What SOME people think about them. As we learned with RMweb live, this forum is good, but not that representative of the bulk of the hobby. I'm sure the information and opinions feed in to decisions though. 

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2 minutes ago, Pete Darton said:

Hope Hornby are following this forum post because it’s a great way to find out what people think of them. 

 

Its obvious that there are alot of passionate people posting today on this subject. These are the sort of people Hornby should be consulting about future products.

 

You’re a bit behind the times there and that’s a truly questionable value judgment as AY mod has just pointed out to you.Paul Isles ...”Islesy” has been a member of this forum for a few years.He is one of Hornby’s professional R&D team and posts occasionally and is available via forum PM for exchange of views (not on open forum btw).

 

In actual fact,Hornby have consulted the more experienced and knowledgeable members of this forum on a number of projects over the last few years.We cannot do their job for them : but we can help in a quiet and practical way. “Open Season” it definitely is not..That way you end with Tower of Babel chaos

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Just now, Pete Darton said:

To be honest I found your response a bit insulting and in a way discourages me from buying Hornby products.

 

Where did you pick up this 'entitlement' from?

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5 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

If that's what you really think is encompassed by the term manufacturing, that's deeply disappointing.

 

What comes first, product or excitement about the product? No product, ultimately nothing to get excited about. Seen any results of excitement generated over future products that then don't appear?

 

If no-one got excited about products that don't exist yet (and in some cases never do), then RMWeb would probably have about 50% of the traffic it currently does!!

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typo!
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I think that to succeed in any endeavour it helps hugely to be passionate about what you do. A healthy passion helps carry you through the difficult times and keep going when things are tough. I hate giving career advice because I find most careers advice is about self justification rather than about thinking about what is best for the person being advised and respecting their choices. However one thing I do advise youngsters is to do something that they enjoy and have a passion for as it is remarkable how things like pay and promotion can look after themselves if you love what you do, and if not then you will probably be happier than doing something that you hate. So it is good that Hornby has so many passionate people. However, you also need people who can run the mechanics of a business, recognise when passion needs to stop and hard headed business needs take over, make difficult decisions and have the necessary competence. I do not see these things as being exclusive as they can be combined in an individual (eg. Jason Shron), equally it works if people do not have both sets of attributes if they are in the right positions. Certainly I would always take passionate people over indolent time servers but they also need to be capable of doing the job they have been paid to do to the required standard. One of the big positives of this show was the obvious passion of so many people at Hornby. 

 

Overall it is great to see the positive interest in Hornby generated by the show and the genuine affection so many have for the brand, that can only be a good thing. Certainly it speaks volumes of the standing of Hornby that the show was even made. No other model company would be seen as worthy of such attention by the media. With the best of will, how many people outside the hobby would notice or care if Hattons or Bachmann shut up shop? 

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Maybe Hornby should grasp the nettle of losing all those old moulds and go for new and inovative future production methods.

Industry is already making complex parts in various materials using computer driven lasers and clever tools. Squirting hot plastic into a jelly mould is old hat.

Take the quantum leap Hornby and go for radical new methods which will leave the competition behind for some considerable time.

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52 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Certainly it speaks volumes of the standing of Hornby that the show was even made. No other model company would be seen as worthy of such attention by the media. With the best of will, how many people outside the hobby would notice or care if Hattons or Bachmann shut up shop? 

 

It must be said, though, that it matters not one jot how anyone feels about the fate of any business/brand they do not patronise, however "iconic". It has no more effect upon them than they will have had on the business.

 

In my case, the parallel is the tribulations of various high street clothing emporia. The only one I miss is BHS, which was my go-to source for shirts and casual trousers. M&S stuff is no better and twice the price.

 

John

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