BBC Four - James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain

[Phil Parker]

And this might be why Hornby's senior management is pushing to get stuff back in toy shops:

 

The Entertainer grows year on year profits by 31 per cent

 

It's not all doom and gloom out there.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Phil, that profit growth appears to be largely, if not totally, driven by acquisitions and increased market share.

[jjb1970]

Seeing the biggest toy shop chain go into liquidation probably does wonders for the market share of other toy shop chains.

[40F]

5 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Seeing the biggest toy shop chain go into liquidation probably does wonders for the market share of other toy shop chains.

 

 

Which toy shop chain are you referring too ? If it is Inter Toys they are Dutch and as far as I am aware do not have branches over here 

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎20‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 22:03, Legend said:

No comment on sales teams, but mention was made above to Bachmann being main competitor, that may have been true 5-6 years ago and previously, but since then Bachmann have had issues delivering new models . The 90 that appears imminent was first announced 5 years ago I believe . Also Bachmann are established . I think what Hornby are trying to do is ward off further new entrants in what is already becoming a saturated market.  The way to avoid this (and Bachmann could learn from this) is to deliver reasonable quantities at regular intervals, then shops would have plenty to sell and not see need to commission models . But I think it’s too late , the lid to Pandora’s box is open and people can see that it is possible to make money out of Model Railways .  They use a direct selling model but still see it as worthwhile .   

 

Of the biggies I think Bachmann are much the more vulnerable at the moment, with their range in danger of being picked off and them not being able to react in the short term. Hopefully the sparcity of new introductions this year means they are working behind the scenes and will announce new models to market in months not years .  If they don’t get the price right it’s irrelevent though, and here Hornby do seem to have learned the lesson, moderating prices (usually) while Bachmann have gone for gimmicks , fitted at low cost, but deemed to attract higher prices 

 

I think there's rather more to it than a regular supply of new models from the established players. Also, price may not be the factor it was; enough of us have got used to gritting our teeth, buying one less of everything, or ignoring something we'd quite like in favour of something else that we really want.

 

There's also the point of what is made. I'd strongly suggest that Kernow's first two choices, the Beattie Well tank and the Adams O2, came out of more than local relevance. At the time Bachmann had only ever made two Southern locos and showed no inclination to expand in that direction, whilst Hornby's predilection for "big, green and named" steam locos still dominated their thinking. Risk of duplication? Almost nil, and the same probably went for the SR diesels and the D600 Warships, neither of which hold the iconic status that made Bachmann go for the LMS twins and DP1. Any danger of competition would probably have come from Heljan.

 

Ideas have changed since then, especially at Hornby. Bachmann's more recent incursions into things Southern shows them thinking more like a commissioner themselves by pointedly avoiding prototypes from the ex-LSWR area, where Hornby has a particularly strong record.

 

The big difference that commissioning makes is the freedom for a retailer, or group of retailers, to choose prototypes that Hornby or Bachmann might not get round to producing for a decade, if ever. Once they taste success in that, there's no going back.

 

It seems certain that dogfighting over the mainstream diesel classes will continue. Not indefinitely, but until any further advance comes at such cost, relative to the margin of superiority, that the majority will decide to stick with what they already have.

 

John

 

 

 

    

Edited March 22, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[petethemole]

He presumably means Toys R Us. Also, The Entertainer don't stock Hornby brands any more.

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Phil, that profit growth appears to be largely, if not totally, driven by acquisitions and increased market share.

 

Possibly, the point is that they are a high street toy store that isn't closing down.  It's the sort of place Hornby are looking to get product into. In this case, the new Corgi models would be a good start, but I could see the cartoon based Scalextric being a close second followed by Airfix Quick-build kits. Once you have a toe in the door, then other stuff can follow but the process takes time.

[jjb1970]

Toys R Us had a token Hornby presence with a few Hornby and Scalextric sets and a few Airfix kits. Smyths don't have any Hornby or model stuff and none of the Entertainer stores I have visited have anything. Few independent toy shops have more than a token model section now. This is maybe as significant as the decline of dedicated model shops as I remember when I was younger many toy shops had model sections as well stocked as many dedicated model shops and even some department stores had good model sections. Our local Hobby Craft has a good plastic kit section but model railways is limited to a token Hornby train set at Christmas time. 

[Chamby]

The significant price increases seen over the last couple of years or so are actually part of the problem for Hornby and Bachmann.  Although it improves profitability for them, it also improves the financial attractiveness for new competitors.  A more profitable market will inevitably attract newcomers!

[caradoc]

The two 'proper' model shops in Oxford are no more; The Railway Bookshop at the Green Road roundabout changed hands some years ago and closed soon afterwards, and Howes, having moved successively further away from the city centre, no longer stock model railways (other than some Heljan spares). In the city, Boswells, with a large toy department, gave up on Hornby a couple of years ago, although they still stock (and have a good range of) Revell kits, including, when I was there last week, the UP Big Boy. How can such a shop still sell aircraft, ship and other kits, yet not the by far best known range of British model trains ? A store like that should be a natural outlet for Hornby, and the fact that it is not is concerning.

[woodenhead]

So 'upset' were Hattons about Hornby's class 66 that they have published a video on Facebook extolling it's virtues and value now it's in stock.

[JohnR]

10 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Phil, that profit growth appears to be largely, if not totally, driven by acquisitions and increased market share.

 

The story says that like-for-like sales growth was 12.3%. How much of that was due to the disappearance of Toys R us is difficult to say, but its not all bad news.

 

I note they have a deal with Matalan as well, putting toys into their stores. Again, if we could get Hornby product into there....

[Mallard60022]

22 hours ago, Legend said:

No comment on sales teams, but mention was made above to Bachmann being main competitor, that may have been true 5-6 years ago and previously, but since then Bachmann have had issues delivering new models . The 90 that appears imminent was first announced 5 years ago I believe . Also Bachmann are established . I think what Hornby are trying to do is ward off further new entrants in what is already becoming a saturated market.  The way to avoid this (and Bachmann could learn from this) is to deliver reasonable quantities at regular intervals, then shops would have plenty to sell and not see need to commission models . But I think it’s too late , the lid to Pandora’s box is open and people can see that it is possible to make money out of Model Railways .  They use a direct selling model but still see it as worthwhile .   

 

Of the biggies I think Bachmann are much the more vulnerable at the moment, with their range in danger of being picked off and them not being able to react in the short term. Hopefully the sparcity of new introductions this year means they are working behind the scenes and will announce new models to market in months not years .  If they don’t get the price right it’s irrelevent though, and here Hornby do seem to have learned the lesson, moderating prices (usually) while Bachmann have gone for gimmicks , fitted at low cost, but deemed to attract higher prices 

Just watched Part two today. Not a patch on part 1 except for certain laughs at the old site. Rails and Hattons were not very happy boys were they? Shame realty that SK had had to deal with this situation. 

Wasn't till after the piece finished that I realised there had been no real mention [or even (IIRC) a quick view of some products] Bachman being a competitive main producer (that is with a wide range of items). I can accept Peco not being featured and the smaller suppliers as they are 'small' compared to the wealthy Rails (see the bloke's car outside the Sheffield store?) and even more wealthy Hattons and this programme was about Hornby and mentioned the big two because they have the same loco's being in production.   

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

....compared to the wealthy Rails (see the bloke's car outside the Sheffield store?) .....

 

It's only an F-Type.

Ten a penny round here.  

 

 

.

[Hroth]

5 hours ago, woodenhead said:

So 'upset' were Hattons about Hornby's class 66 that they have published a video on Facebook extolling it's virtues and value now it's in stock.

 

Well, they want to get the Hornby locos off their books before their own come on stream..... 

[Wheatley]

21 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Toys R Us had a token Hornby presence with a few Hornby and Scalextric sets and a few Airfix kits. Smyths don't have any Hornby or model stuff and none of the Entertainer stores I have visited have anything. Few independent toy shops have more than a token model section now.

 

Those (I think), Hawkins Bazaar, Toyland/Toymaster, department stores (Fenwicks and Beales around here) and the late Modelezone took Hornby on a concession basis. After Hornby killed off the concessions (under the old regime) it's not surprising they aren't falling over themselves to restock.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Wheatley

[woodenhead]

9 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Well, they want to get the Hornby locos off their books before their own come on stream..... 

Three of the 66s are under 10 items in stock so it's working.

 

Actually it is noticeable how many new items in this week at Hattons from Hornby are already in single figure stock levels - whether first tranche deliveries are low or there is a real popularity to Hornby's releases I don't know but the stock isn't hanging around including the Railroad class 90 with Bachmann's version about to land.

[RedgateModels]

Judging by the amount of posts of Facebook the Hornby 66's are VERY popular ....

[Pacific231G]

17 hours ago, caradoc said:

The two 'proper' model shops in Oxford are no more; The Railway Bookshop at the Green Road roundabout changed hands some years ago and closed soon afterwards, and Howes, having moved successively further away from the city centre, no longer stock model railways (other than some Heljan spares). In the city, Boswells, with a large toy department, gave up on Hornby a couple of years ago, although they still stock (and have a good range of) Revell kits, including, when I was there last week, the UP Big Boy. How can such a shop still sell aircraft, ship and other kits, yet not the by far best known range of British model trains ? A store like that should be a natural outlet for Hornby, and the fact that it is not is concerning.

Are Howes still going? The last I heard they'd moved to a unit near the Airport and had stopped doing Roco spares. I'm glad to know that Boswells are still going even if not stocking Hornby any more.

My local Hobbycraft store (where I buy paints and card etc.)  used to have a fair range of Hornby products (slightly hidden away on their upper floor) but, AFAIK, the only models they now sell are Revell and a few Airfix  model aircraft though they do sell Humbrol, Revell and Tamiya paints, varnishes and glues and, rather oddly, Woodland Scenics.  do many people other than railway modellers make much use of Woodland Scenics scenery products?

[Roddy Angus]

1 minute ago, Pacific231G said:

  do many people other than railway modellers make much use of Woodland Scenics scenery products?

 

Have a look at a military modelling website to get an answer to your question.

 

Best wishes

 

Roddy

[The Stationmaster]

11 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

Are Howes still going? The last I heard they'd moved to a unit near the Airport and had stopped doing Roco spares. I'm glad to know that Boswells are still going even if not stocking Hornby any more.

My local Hobbycraft store (where I buy paints and card etc.)  used to have a fair range of Hornby products (slightly hidden away on their upper floor) but, AFAIK, the only models they now sell are Revell and a few Airfix  model aircraft though they do sell Humbrol, Revell and Tamiya paints, varnishes and glues and, rather oddly, Woodland Scenics.  do many people other than railway modellers make much use of Woodland Scenics scenery products?

Hobbycraft seemed to expand their Woodland Scenics range into some of the space previousl;y occupied. by Hornby stock in the Reading branch.  Not sure if it's still like that as I haven't been there for a while.  So it was Bachmann Europe doing better at the expense of Hornby in the case of Hobbycraft!

[Pacific231G]

1 minute ago, Roddy Angus said:

 

Have a look at a military modelling website to get an answer to your question.

 

Best wishes

 

Roddy

I did wonder about them but figured that though their diorama based modelling (am I right about that?) approach would need scenery it wouldn't need a lot of it. Woodland Scenics own promotion leads on railway/railroad modelling but mentions, architectural, diorama, gaming and military modelling also. ISTR that Hobbycraft used to stock a few of the small ruined buildings and wall pieces used for military dioramas but I've not seen them recently.  

[ruggedpeak]

15 hours ago, woodenhead said:

So 'upset' were Hattons about Hornby's class 66 that they have published a video on Facebook extolling it's virtues and value now it's in stock.

Surely this "spiteful" action by Hornby would mean Hattons refuse to stock them on principle!! Indeed they should stop selling any Hornby at all. That'll learn 'em, like it has learnt Bachmann !!

 

The problem for Hattons is SK is a grizzled PR and sales pro. The head honchos at big retailers aren't and it was quite a nice little TV scene that SK put together that Hattons fell right into. Rails played it much better.

 

From a sale perspective it appears that perhaps the rush to provide the most super duper mega detailed locos and rolling stock has opened up a huge opportunity for Hornby to exploit as no one else is turning out cheap low detail items for the mass market that has been created by rapid growth in interest after the GMRC being on TV. Hattons, Bachmann, and others are metaphorically kicking seven bells out of each other at the top end whilst Hornby creams off the lower value but presumably profitable sales using old tooling. What are dads and kids who are newly into models going to buy when faced with 3 versions of a fancy liveried 66? The detailed and fragile Hattons or Bachmann model for £150+ or the very similar to the untrained eye £75 Hornby model, and a load of a wagons.

 

All is fair in love and war. And the model railway business.

[woodenhead]

49 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

Judging by the amount of posts of Facebook the Hornby 66's are VERY popular ....

Which goes to prove whilst there is a market for the all singing all dancing disco light locomotives, a lot of people like simple rugged models that will go around their railways without a fuss.

[caradoc]

32 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

Are Howes still going? The last I heard they'd moved to a unit near the Airport and had stopped doing Roco spares. I'm glad to know that Boswells are still going even if not stocking Hornby any more.

My local Hobbycraft store (where I buy paints and card etc.)  used to have a fair range of Hornby products (slightly hidden away on their upper floor) but, AFAIK, the only models they now sell are Revell and a few Airfix  model aircraft though they do sell Humbrol, Revell and Tamiya paints, varnishes and glues and, rather oddly, Woodland Scenics.  do many people other than railway modellers make much use of Woodland Scenics scenery products?

 

Howes are still going, now based in an industrial estate at the far north end of Kidlington, near the Airport as you say, but not particularly handy for the main/frequent bus routes to Kidlington. Their focus nowadays seems to be on Radio Controlled models. A far cry from their former location on Broad Street and huge model railway stocks !

 

Boswells still have, as well as a prime city centre site, a large and well stocked toy department, except for no model railways. IMHO this is the kind of place Hornby should be bending over backwards to get their stock into.