BBC Four - James May's Big Trouble in Model Britain

[Daniel W]

I was watching the programme with my girlfriend and she made a couple of interesting observations about the VR section. One: VR really isn't quite 'there' yet, both in terms of market penetration and the technoology. Two: If/when it does get there, Hornby could do something similar to the Nintendo Amiibos or Disney Infinity where you get the physical item (the model) and also a code for the same item in VR.

 

My own feelings on the programme, however, can be summed up by this gif:

[Edwardian]

Whereas others may feel Mr K's plan is better summed up by this picture of a stupid dwarf ...

 

 

It's not big and it's not clever. 

 

Your girlfriend sounds quite bright. 

 

[298]

On 12/03/2019 at 12:55, papagolfjuliet said:

 

 It was stated that the only surviving Hornby tool which hadn't gone to China was the tunnel. Off the top of my head I'd say that means the APT, the Australian diesel and brake van, the strange US outline 0-4-0T, and a couple of wagons. Lord knows how much Tri-ang, Scalextric, Airfix, Corgi, and Lima stuff was destroyed, although some of the earlier Tri-ang tools were sold to an Indian company years ago.

 

...and it now has it's own museum...

[Edwardian]

Oh, well, thank goodness for that. 

[The Johnster]

On 01/04/2019 at 10:59, jjb1970 said:

 

I think it depends on whether you see books primarily as an artefact, or as an information carrier. People collect books and value them as artefacts, in which case the tangible properties of a printed book have great value. If you see books as an information carrier then the carrier format (printed book, hard bound, soft bound, electronic down load, E-book, on-line viewing etc) is less important than the information and people will value whichever carrier works best for them.

 

And of course many people value both. I collect books and have quite a large library of history and maritime books, as well as a few scientific and engineering texts, but when I want to access the information carried by books then nowadays I prefer E-books.

 

So I'm not sure the comparison with models says anything as it is very much an apples and pears comparison. And although the supply side of the hobby is fairly buoyant these days it seems to have found a new level of buoyancy based around a smaller overall market and with increasing use of pre-ordering and crowd funding to de-risk projects. A better comparison might be the music one already noted. There has been a big revival in vinyl (although as a percentage of total music sales vinyl remains a niche), people like vinyl LPs as artefacts, value the cover art, being able to hold something tangible and the whole rigmarole of playing vinyl (handling it, cleaning things, setting up arms and cartridges etc). If you just want to enjoy listening to music then digital (either as optical discs or more commonly now as files on a hard drive, streaming or such like) is a better option.

An old friend on mine, now sadly gone to the great record shop in the sky, back in the 70s remarked that a vinyl album, with the sleeve and artwork and all the rigmarole, was a possession, whereas a cassette, and later a CD, was a mere chattel.  He'd be horrified to learn that none of my current collection of music physically exists in any form other than electronic algorithms, 'streamed' (whatever that is) on demand...

 

It certainly saves space!

 

But playing a vinyl album on a decent (ish) hi fi deck was something like a ritual.  After having set the deck up, itself an occult rite, you then removed the album in it's inner sleeve from the outer cover with a suitable flourish as if you were holding the Holy Grail, with due reverence, meticulously took it out of the inner sleeve, looked carefully on both sides, wiped the dust off with an anti-static cloth, and, being careful not to contaminate the playing surface and holding it by the edge, placed it as precisely as you could on the turntable platter.  Then, with the greatest possible care and reverence, you started the turntable and lifted the arm, very gently placing it on the lead in groove at the edge of the side you were playing, breath held in case you made a jerky move.  Then, you withdrew from the Holy Record Deck, gently closing the smoked plastic cover, and listened.

 

Tell kids that terday, they don't believe yer.  Who needs all that, now.

[decauville1126]

On 31/03/2019 at 12:55, jjb1970 said:

Metrology is an interesting subject in itself and a discipline which too few ever study. Certainly if comparing different measurements then you have to understand what you are trying to measure and the basis of the measurements taken. 

 

When I was an apprentice, metrology was my favourite discipline. And even today I can't stop buying various devices at car boot sales and the like just to recalibrate them and see them kept and used for their intended purposes. 

[Free At Last]

16 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

But playing a vinyl album on a decent (ish) hi fi deck was something like a ritual.  After having set the deck up, itself an occult rite, you then removed the album in it's inner sleeve from the outer cover with a suitable flourish as if you were holding the Holy Grail, with due reverence, meticulously took it out of the inner sleeve, looked carefully on both sides, wiped the dust off with an anti-static cloth, and, being careful not to contaminate the playing surface and holding it by the edge, placed it as precisely as you could on the turntable platter.  Then, with the greatest possible care and reverence, you started the turntable and lifted the arm, very gently placing it on the lead in groove at the edge of the side you were playing, breath held in case you made a jerky move.  Then, you withdrew from the Holy Record Deck, gently closing the smoked plastic cover, and listened.

I remember once when closing the smoked plastic cover the static in it lifted the arm off the disc and promptly fell back on it with a loud crack when I lifted the lid to see why there was no sound.

[The Johnster]

AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I feel for you, and hope that time and counselling have assisted a recovery...

[jjb1970]

2 hours ago, decauville1126 said:

 

When I was an apprentice, metrology was my favourite discipline. And even today I can't stop buying various devices at car boot sales and the like just to recalibrate them and see them kept and used for their intended purposes. 

 

It's amazing how useful a basic understanding of measurement is, especially in regulatory matters. Very, very few policy makers appear to have ever studied the subject and have zero understanding of principles such as repeatability, reproducibility, standard deviation, what calibration means, instrument drift etc. So they leave themselves wide open to ridicule when they start pontificating (often with somebody from their department that does understand the subject sat behind them looking at the floor in embarrassment). All good fun.

[jjb1970]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

An old friend on mine, now sadly gone to the great record shop in the sky, back in the 70s remarked that a vinyl album, with the sleeve and artwork and all the rigmarole, was a possession, whereas a cassette, and later a CD, was a mere chattel.  He'd be horrified to learn that none of my current collection of music physically exists in any form other than electronic algorithms, 'streamed' (whatever that is) on demand...

 

It certainly saves space!

 

But playing a vinyl album on a decent (ish) hi fi deck was something like a ritual.  After having set the deck up, itself an occult rite, you then removed the album in it's inner sleeve from the outer cover with a suitable flourish as if you were holding the Holy Grail, with due reverence, meticulously took it out of the inner sleeve, looked carefully on both sides, wiped the dust off with an anti-static cloth, and, being careful not to contaminate the playing surface and holding it by the edge, placed it as precisely as you could on the turntable platter.  Then, with the greatest possible care and reverence, you started the turntable and lifted the arm, very gently placing it on the lead in groove at the edge of the side you were playing, breath held in case you made a jerky move.  Then, you withdrew from the Holy Record Deck, gently closing the smoked plastic cover, and listened.

 

Tell kids that terday, they don't believe yer.  Who needs all that, now.

 

Funnily enough records are quite trendy with the young and hipsters again. I think there is a sense of wanting something physical and tangible in the digital world. However I also think that this is a supplementary interest and is growing the size of the pie rather than people turning away from digital in a world where the size of the pie is assumed to be fixed.

[Mike Storey]

Hornby........Has anyone noticed this?

 

http://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/Hornby/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=1477&newsid=1246408

 

The share price dropped slightly on issue (9th April), but has been steadily climbing since March to knock on 40p now, roughly double its price of about a year ago (and market cap to £49m+). Whilst we know the share price is not such an important feature of a Hornby health check these days (only 50 shares traded most recently but it moved the price a whole penny), it does at least suggest that there is some confidence out there (or internally?). As the brief statement does not say a great deal (full report to be issued in June), one wonders what is driving this.

 

[adb968008]

50 shares... that’s less than £20.. the trading fees will be close to that.

[57xx]

It's only £5 per trade with iWeb.  

[Pacific231G]

More about Hornby than the programme narrated by James May but I've just seen this video from Kalmbach- publisher of Model Railroader- for its magazine Fine Scale Modeller

http://www.finescale.com/videos/online-extras/2019/02/how-to-use-your-modelers-tool-box?utm_source=Yesmail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SA000_HBS_190426_P35571_ToolboxVideoCallout_FSM-MRR-HBS

 

I had no  idea that Humbrol and Airfix were such well known brands in the U.S. I'd always thought that Tamiya and Revell were dominant over there.

 

 

[autocoach]

17 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

More about Hornby than the programme narrated by James May but I've just seen this video from Kalmbach- publisher of Model Railroader- for its magazine Fine Scale Modeller

http://www.finescale.com/videos/online-extras/2019/02/how-to-use-your-modelers-tool-box?utm_source=Yesmail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SA000_HBS_190426_P35571_ToolboxVideoCallout_FSM-MRR-HBS

 

I had no  idea that Humbrol and Airfix were such well known brands in the U.S. I'd always thought that Tamiya and Revell were dominant over there.

 

 

In a  well stocked US railroad oriented hobby shop you will find Tru-Color, Testors, Vallejo (sometimes), Mission, Scale Coat and many other brands. My own personal favorite is PBL's Star Brand with higly accurate SP and UP passenger and freight colors which has to come UPS ground due to volitility so I wait until I get a big enough order. It is not sold in any retail outlets to my knowledge.  Due to postal regulations most non-Acrylic paints cannot be shipped by US Postal Service mail.  They have to go UPS or whatever local unmarked van Amazon uses.  Humbrol and Airfix are of interest primarily to military modelers so a store would have to cater to that market as well as trains. You won't find Humbrol UK railway colors. Testors appeals to the automobile/truck modeling community. Testors has almost completely elimintated any remaining trace of the the Floquil and Polly-S paints. There are a couple of other brands that cater to war gamers.   The Kalmbach Fine Scale Modeller does not carry railroad oriented articles.  There is also a whole different set of brands in the big box craft stores. Often they are rebranded as store name brands.  I have not seen Revell paints on the west coast.  Kalmbach is very upper midwest oriented and strains to do justice to anything west of the Rockies. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by autocoach

[Jeff Smith]

Personally I have not recently seen Humbrol but do not frequent any specialist model shops as any local to me closed.  Hobby Lobby carries Airfix kits but paints are limited to Testors and Vallejo.  Badger Modelflex acrylic come in model railroad, ship and military ranges - I order from Amazon.

[Pacific231G]

7 hours ago, autocoach said:

In a  well stocked US railroad oriented hobby shop you will find Tru-Color, Testors, Vallejo (sometimes), Mission, Scale Coat and many other brands. My own personal favorite is PBL's Star Brand with higly accurate SP and UP passenger and freight colors which has to come UPS ground due to volitility so I wait until I get a big enough order. It is not sold in any retail outlets to my knowledge.  Due to postal regulations most non-Acrylic paints cannot be shipped by US Postal Service mail.  They have to go UPS or whatever local unmarked van Amazon uses.  Humbrol and Airfix are of interest primarily to military modelers so a store would have to cater to that market as well as trains. You won't find Humbrol UK railway colors. Testors appeals to the automobile/truck modeling community. Testors has almost completely elimintated any remaining trace of the the Floquil and Polly-S paints. There are a couple of other brands that cater to war gamers.   The Kalmbach Fine Scale Modeller does not carry railroad oriented articles.  There is also a whole different set of brands in the big box craft stores. Often they are rebranded as store name brands.  I have not seen Revell paints on the west coast.  Kalmbach is very upper midwest oriented and strains to do justice to anything west of the Rockies. 

 

7 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Personally I have not recently seen Humbrol but do not frequent any specialist model shops as any local to me closed.  Hobby Lobby carries Airfix kits but paints are limited to Testors and Vallejo.  Badger Modelflex acrylic come in model railroad, ship and military ranges - I order from Amazon.

Thanks Jeff and Ken; my curiosity deepens. If Humbrol is not a major brand in the US why is Fine Scale Modeller giving it such prominence. It's not about railways but a new Airfix kit was a major element in the BBC-4 programme. When I was modelling a N. American railway* I used Floquil paints and they seemed to work well with the wood used in Craftsman kits. ISTR the fumes being a bit evil

 

*(Railway not RR because, although it  was allways a bit vague, my layout was usually set in Canada rather than the US if only because the combine that provided the passenger element of the mixed train daily to my small silo town was lettered for the CNR.)

Edited April 27, 2019 by Pacific231G

[autocoach]

All I can say is that Humbrol is not well known in the current US model railroading.  Neither Humbrol, Airfix or Hornby have an ad in the latest Kalmbach Model Railroader magazine, Railroad Model Craftsman or Model Railroad Hobbyist.  Again Fine Scale Modeler is not a magazine even carried by my local hobby shop (LHS) as it caters to military and road vehicle modelers. Far be it for me to say whether Hornby as Airfix or Humbrol has possibly made a significant advertising buy with Kalmbach in Fine Scale Modeler resulting in their prominence.   The US Railroad hobby paint industry went through a major shakeup/shakedown with the demise of Floquil after it's purchase by Testors who is owned by Rust-Oleum Paints who is a wholly owned subsidiary of a mega chemicals holding company, RPM International. Testors to limit all sorts of legal issues is discontinuing any remaining enamel in it's Model Masters line which is now acrylic except for spray cans. 

 

About 3 years ago I mail ordered from Humbrol USA some Acrylic Service Brown which was available as an aircraft color to use as Southern goods wagon brown paint for a series of Cambrian's  LSWR 1410 van kits I was building.  It was unfortunately unusable having separated in the tiny tin and no amount of shaking and stirring or thining with recommended spirits and other liquids would reverse the congealment.  After a bit of experimentation,  I found a more than adequate substitute in the Vallejo Model Color line.  

Edited April 27, 2019 by autocoach

[Pint of Adnams]

This two-part programme returned to BBC4 this evening, Saturday 27 January, and is available on the BBC iPlayer for 30 days: BBC iPlayer - James Mays Big Trouble in Model Britain

 

I guess that the second episode will be shown next Saturday at 7 pm.

 

A rewatching is made even more interesting by the events of the past year and the latest news about Hattons, whose 2018 turnover (if I caught it correctly) was £50 million and they were about to introduce their own Class 66. Naturally SK on his return to Hornby features prominently.

[JohnR]

35 minutes ago, Pint of Adnams said:

A rewatching is made even more interesting by the events of the past year and the latest news about Hattons, whose 2018 turnover (if I caught it correctly) was £50 million and they were about to introduce their own Class 66. Naturally SK on his return to Hornby features prominently.

 

In the (publicly available) accounts turnover for the year to June 2018 was £14.4million, so i guess it was £15million.

[Pint of Adnams]

11 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

In the (publicly available) accounts turnover for the year to June 2018 was £14.4million, so i guess it was £15million.

 

I replayed it several times and still wasn't sure, but to these 75-year-old ears it sounded like fifty although it was a big number - but including worldwide sales? Thanks for the correction.

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Pint of Adnams said:

 

I replayed it several times and still wasn't sure, but to these 75-year-old ears it sounded like fifty although it was a big number - but including worldwide sales? Thanks for the correction.

Hattons' turnover to year end jun 2018 was definitely £14.41 (rounded) million.  

 

Hornby's revenue to year end March 2018 was £35.7 million, a decline of almost £12 million on the previous year.  They didn't publish a split by brand in 2018 but their UK model railway sales were £9.9 million the previous year our of total sales of £47.4 million.  The decline in Hornby's revenue continued - down to £2.8 million in year end March 2019 but back up to £37.8 million a year later and a big leap to £48.5 million in year end March 2021 (and they reported a profit) - no doubt due to the effect of Covid lockdowns etc.  Since then there has been further growth in revenue but the rate of growth slackened noticeably between 2022 and 2023.