First time scratchbuilder needing help starting

[MrDobilina]

Afternoon all,

 

I have recently decided that as part of my new layout I would like to start scratchbuilding some line side buildings, houses, huts, platforms and other things such as coalstaiths and fencing.

 

This all sounds great but I am an absolute beginner. I have had some pointers as to where to get some supplies, but am still rather daunted as to what the supplies suggested are on a website (as the naming and sizes seem to be different depending where you look).

 

Ideally I'd like to model something along these lines:

 

And alot of my inspiration for buildings and bits come from the legendary Chris Nevard.

 

And this scene is an inspiration for what I would like to accomplish at one end of my layout.

Quote

 

It's very difficult to advise you on that without a better idea of what you want to build. I would suggest you get in a stock of 10thou, 20thou, 40thou and 80thou plain styrene sheet to use for the basic structures, along with stocks of styrene strip in 10thou thickness and 20thou thickness in 10, 20, 40, 60 and 80thou widths. This will give you the ability to build a basic shell, and window and door frames, and various detail pieces.  Slaters, Evergreen and Plastruct all have ranges of these sorts of items.

 

Then I suggest you look at embossed styrene sheets for brick, stone, planking (for doors etc) and any other textures you feel you need. Slaters, SE Finecast and Wills all make different scales of these sheets.

 

The advice I've currently had is:
 

Which is great, however how do I get from those thin strips to a whole building. 

 

I realise this has probably been answered a hundred times before, but I always learn best through example.

 

Many thanks to any who reply

[Edwardian]

The world divides into styrene and card.  If it's styrene, I cannot help.  If it's card, I have a little experience and would be happy to pass on any tips garnered, however, you could do worse than look at these topics:

 

• Card Modelling Forum
• One of the Aldersgate Topics
• One from Chubber
• Westerhamn-Ewer St
• Little Muddle 

 

Bear's End mill by Chubber of this parish:

 

But some people like solvent fumes and individually painting bricks ...!

 

A lovely subject.  If I were tackling it, I'd make it out of 1.5mm picture framer's mount board.

 

It looks like the front is rendered.  If so, you might find a mount board a suitable colour, or paint it with water-colour or water-based acrylic, using the slight texture of the board.  Alternatively, download the stucco texture sheet from Scalescenes.

 

I would make each wall flat and then glue as a box. Often it's as simple as gluing the sides round floors.  In this case, I'd be tempted to but-joint the front to the sides, with the edge of the front visible.  

 

The wood cladding can be easily achieved by overlapping strips of thick paper or very thin card.  Ditto the roof tiles.  I find Pritt Stick does the job perfectly well.

 

The only tricky bit here are the windows. These are sashes, so should be made in two halves, the upper set proud of the lower.  I have made these by sticking self-adhesive labels on clear sheet, cutting out the pane areas and peeling off to leave the clear sheet visible.  See example (Norfolk Cottages) below:

 

You might want to consider some ready-made windows from, say, York Model Makers  You could buy the nearest visual match and cut your window apertures to suit. 

 

I would recommend a Swann Morton scalpel with frequent changes of blade, a steel rule and Roket Card Glue. 

 

The materials are hardly expensive, so you may as well just have a go.

 

Would like to see the results.

 

The original Cardmeister - Ahern's Madder Valley:

Bear's End:

The Bilteezi cottages reworked on Maeport East:

Brick paper to good effect on Maeport East:

Maeport East is, alas, no more, but very much alive and thrilling is Little Muddle by KNP of this parish: 

 

Lest we forget that other pioneer and user of brickpapers, Peter Denny:

 

I realise that i have hi-jacked your topic and given a paean for card modelling, sorry for that, but it's subtle and suits small scale of indoor model railways.

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Edwardian

[gobbler]

Have a look at Graham Walters thread,  Wills sheet & plasticard. 

 

He's looking into scratch building too. I've added a picture of a Station based on Southminster in Essex.   I've used the Wills range for the roof and brickwork.   The bricks are a tad over scale, but i like them.  The sheets are a bit small for something bigger than a semi detatched house.  I wouldn't want to do a street of terraced houses with them.

 

Good luck in your endeavours and post pictures of your progress, I'll be watching with interest, in the mean time I'll continue with my scratch built carriages, coaches and wagons.

 

Scott

[doilum]

Circa 1963, mother made me a cottage from a plan she found in a home makers magazine. Dad found some straw board ( like a very thin OSB board). The finished shell was skimmed in the recently released Polyfiller. Later I bought the Airfix cottage for which it was a perfect match. More recently I have used this technique in 7mm mixing my own blend of emulsion paint, pva and fine sand for a rendered finish. Most other materials can be found in the recycling bin.

[Brassey]

15 hours ago, MrDobilina said:

...however how do I get from those thin strips to a whole building. 

 

 

 

Build the shell of the building out of the sheet; making cutouts for windows and doorways.  Use the strip for adding window ledges, door frames etc.

[dibateg]

It might be worth taking a look at the model Building books written by Geoff Taylor. I'm sure they'd be a help.

 

Regards

Tony

[doilum]

Some basic tools.

Knife and sharp blades. Every one has there own favourite. Mine is the Xacto#2. Stanley type is good for cutting out the main shell.

A metal ruler with clear markings.

Set square. Look out in budget diy shops for a flat 30x20 cms steel example.

Cutting mat. 30x20 cms will do.

Make your own modelling board. Take an off cut of flat ply. (6mm will do) measuring about 40x30 cms. Glue a thin batten of straight hard wood to one long side. Place cutting mat on top. If you take the flat set square and put it up against the batten every cut will be square.

Glue and paint pots. Wash out the yoghurt containers and give them a new role as disposable mixing pots.

Emery boards. Cheaper than files. Try the pound shop where you will also find tubes of quality contact adhesive, scissors and dozens of other useful items. Try their small paint brushes..if you get lucky you may be surprised by the quality, if not they will do for glue.

The main thing is to have a go. Don't start on a full scale model of St Pancras or York Minster, begin with small shed or cottage and work up to a small  diorama of a group of associated buildings.

Many years ago. I was making a brick lineside hut from plastikard when my ten year old daughter asked if she could have a go. Having demonstrated the basic technique of how to create corners I left her to it and went to the pub..On my return there was a row of three and I could not tell which was the original. One eventually ended up on a club layout that had a big feature in Railway Modeller. Sadly that was the end of her interest and she had modelling out of her system.

[Siberian Snooper]

I would recommend that you download one or two of the Scalescenes kits, some of which are free and have a go at building them, this will give you a basic idea of what's what. Similar techniques apply whether building a card based building or a plastic structure, or a hybrid. I use a card structure and add plastic overlays.

 

https://scalescenes.com/

 

 

[sej]

I love John Ahern's book "Miniature Building Construction". It's very old school; all cardboard and seccotine and an absolute delight!

[Philou]

As Edwardian suggested above, you could try the Scalescenes series of papers - downloadable and they're yours for ever.

 

I downloaded a couple of their kits to try my hand - easy to follow - but they take a little while.

 

Tiles and slate roofing are cut in strips and stuck with Pritt stick, resulting in the effect of coursing. At a distance you can't see it, but it is there.

 

For the Tudor-style building, I reprinted the timberwork onto thin card and with a very sharp blade, cut it out as a fret and overlaid it onto the building - again giving a 3D effect.

 

Windows are from the Brassmasters range, glazed from behind and, in the case of the sash windows, the upper sash glued on top of the lower one - some open.

 

I varied the proposed setting out of the buildings just to be a little different. The terraced houses I changed by adding a dormer to one using a spare window and in another created a roof light (though it could have done with trimming of the edges). A garage was made up using some leftovers. (Ignore the tree - a first attempt too ).

 

They're all lit internally - not every floor and not all windows. There are external lights too - though not easily discernible on the photos.

 

The reason for mentioning all of the above, is that having done a few building 'by example', I now feel quite confident in tackling a real building in 4mm scale, and I am currently determining the dimensions from some old photographs - primarily from brickwork sizes.

 

Hope it's of help.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Philou
Edit: I should have dusted the cobweb off before taking the picture!

[Philou]

I should have added - Edwardian is being exceedingly modest. He has created from scratch a superb flint and brick Drill Hall. It is top-notch!!

 

If I can get anywhere near that standard, I shall be very pleased.

 

Here's the link:

Cheers,

 

Philip

Edited March 7, 2019 by Philou

[Ian Major]

If you haven't already invested in plastic sheet, I would throw my vote behind using good quality card. It is lovely to use for model buildings.

 

I would suggest doing a card kit first to get an idea of how  model buildings go together. There are those suggested above. I got started using Superquick kits. They are quick because they are die cut so it is quick to to produce the individual parts.  One that might be useful to you would be their Kit B21 "the Swan Inn". It is about £7.

 

 

It is rather generic but you would learn a lot from it. And whilst you are building this or one of the other suggested kits you will have time to absorb all the good advice above and to look at the various logs that will help to improve on the kit version.

 

Ian.

[Charlie586]

As a few others have said, card kits are a good way to start. The Metcalfe kits go together well, have good instructions and don't need tools that the average home doesn't have. It's worth trying a plastic kit at some point so you can see which you prefer working with. I think after a kit or two you'll see how to adapt or start from scratch on other buildings and how to make the Swan will be clear.

 

Is your first name Bob? I've got that song running round my head now.

[MrDobilina]

Can I just say that I am so thrilled to see so many responses to this topic! Some great details and pointers and I do like the suggestions of what kit I should get and where to look for more inspiration!

 

11 hours ago, Philou said:

As Edwardian suggested above, you could try the Scalescenes series of papers - downloadable and they're yours for ever.

I do like scalescenes and other printables, but I have no printer currently and works printer is only black and white. (Also not for personal use)

 

1 hour ago, Charlie586 said:

Is your first name Bob? I've got that song running round my head now.

Haha no it's not, but you're not the first to ask that

 

 

I think I will buy some styrene sheets as I've worked with plastic model kits before and see where I get with that. I'll update this topic with some bits as I experiment.

Here's a ratio N gauge one I put together a couple years ago:

[MrDobilina]

On 07/03/2019 at 09:30, doilum said:

Cutting mat. 30x20 cms will do.

Make your own modelling board. Take an off cut of flat ply. (6mm will do) measuring about 40x30 cms. Glue a thin batten of straight hard wood to one long side. Place cutting mat on top. If you take the flat set square and put it up against the batten every cut will be square.

 

Hey @doilum just wondering what you thought to this offer currently available from RMWeb:

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/brm/store/reader-offers/laser-cut-work-station-cutting-mat-her-first-edition/#FullDescription

 

Would this be sufficient or would those sides be too flexible? I realise it is a bit more expensive than making your own.

[doilum]

1 hour ago, MrDobilina said:

 

Hey @doilum just wondering what you thought to this offer currently available from RMWeb:

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/brm/store/reader-offers/laser-cut-work-station-cutting-mat-her-first-edition/#FullDescription

 

Would this be sufficient or would those sides be too flexible? I realise it is a bit more expensive than making your own.

Just my personal view, but I would find it difficult to work hemmed in by the sides and with all my tools and glues dangling over me. Were it gifted to me, it would be quickly divided into a tool tidy for the back of the bench and a cutting board. Being from God's own county, I also begrudge spending money on something I can make for nothing leaving funds for those things I cannot make, like Slaters driving wheels and multistage gearboxes.

The most important items are the square and the knife. The cutting mats are good value. Before I discovered them I used a sacrificial piece of hardboard.

I am lucky where, after over forty years of adult modelling, I have my ultimate perfect workshop. My favourite feature are shallow drawers in the work bench that glide out to access all my small hand tools. 

If however you have to work from the kitchen table, keep an eye out in charity shops etc for a fibreglass briefcase. Make your cutting board to fit, this way you can quickly tidy up, or move to another location.

If plastikard is to be your material of choice (I love it) be ready for a whole new learning experience on solvents. After lots of experimenting with cheaper alternatives. I have returned to Slaters Mekpak but you will get lots of other advice.  Look out at shows for large sheets at a good discount as the cost mounts up, especially when you discover the wonderful Microstrip product.

[Barclay]

On 07/03/2019 at 10:11, sej said:

I love John Ahern's book "Miniature Building Construction". It's very old school; all cardboard and seccotine and an absolute delight!

These two gems from Wild Swan are worth having too:

 

 

[30368]

I wouldn't pretend to be an expert in this field. My only real experience of building (4mm) structures are those contructed for 70D Basingstoke engine shed.  

 

I wanted to avoid spending huge amounts of time starting everything from scratch although this was unavoidable in some cases, for example, the corrugated structure that served a a coal stage. The shed itself although unique in many respects was very close to "off the shelf" models of other sheds. I wanted a embossed brick moulding of some sort and not brick paper although I know some of these are embossed as well.

 

In the end I contacted "Townstreet" to discuss the project and supplied them with the prototype's  overall dimensions and images of 70D. Townstreet make Plaster of Paris wall sections that are suitable, and after some further dialog they supplied me with enough sections to build the shed walls and ends very quickly. The advice on painting and weathering the completed structure was very helpful. 

 

A not very good 'photo of my version of 70D which, sadly, remains unfinished but moves are afoot to remedy that! Roof structures scratchbult from various brass sections.

 

Hope this is of some help, Kind regards and good luck,

 

Richard B

 

[Darwinian]

I have scratch built buildings in both card and plastic card over many years. Which medium you choose is really a matter of what you are most comfortable with. In my experience plastic is harder to work and can warp due the solvent.  The Wills sheets (and similar from other manufacturers) are quite thick but give good relief detail making stonework etc. easier but the brick can look overscale, especially the depth of the mortar courses, in my view. Card is more stable but less suitable for complex shapes. On the other hand it's easier to use brick papers over card than over plastic.

 

Whichever material you use I'd recommend making a careful scale drawing of your building before you start. This helps to sort out what goes where and you can think about how it will fit together as you draw. This only needs to be the main outline not a fully detailed architects plan.

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

[doilum]

The key thing is to have a go and not to be discouraged by first attempts. It will take a few attempts to discover which materials suit yo best. Despite some success with plastikard and other materials,I never got the hang of brick paper. I have known several old school modelers who could produce museum quality work from brick paper, but never got to grips with solvent and plastics. Whilst plans are essential for larger and more complex structures, an equally important aid is to develop an eye for size and scale. The ability to stand in a room and guesstimate it's size accurately, and to build a mental knowledge of typical room sizes, ceiling heights and window proportions cannot be underestimated. A walk round a heritage museum like Beamish with a camera and a note book is a good start. Ask a partner or offspring to stand arms akimbo whilst you photograph a building to provide a scale when you get home and produce your own drawings on graph paper.

 

[doilum]

The key thing is to have a go and not to be discouraged by first attempts. It will take a few attempts to discover which materials suit yo best. Despite some success with plastikard and other materials,I never got the hang of brick paper. I have known several old school modelers who could produce museum quality work from brick paper, but never got to grips with solvent and plastics. Whilst plans are essential for larger and more complex structures, an equally important aid is to develop an eye for size and scale. The ability to stand in a room and guesstimate it's size accurately, and to build a mental knowledge of typical room sizes, ceiling heights and window proportions cannot be underestimated. A walk round a heritage museum like Beamish with a camera and a note book is a good start. Ask a partner or offspring to stand arms akimbo whilst you photograph a building to provide a scale when you get home and produce your own drawings on graph paper.

 

[MrDobilina]

4 hours ago, doilum said:

. A walk round a heritage museum like Beamish with a camera and a note book is a good start.

Thanks for justifying my want to go to beamish haha

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

Dont be afraid to scrap parts you feel are not up to scratch. If you leave them they will always draw your eye and you will regret leaving them there.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[doilum]

2 hours ago, MrDobilina said:

Thanks for justifying my want to go to beamish haha

If you haven't been before, aim to spend a full day or even two.

Lots of good places to stay locally.