LBSCR 54ft Carriage

[Lastgaspandy]

I have a kit of the above carriage but the kit is at was in SR days post 1927. This is an all third example

 

I want to create this as an actual LBSCR example but i understand by 1927 the ducketts on the sides had been removed.  (at least that's what is says in the instructions) Can any one confirm the original build did have ducketts. If so, whereabouts on the side would this have been, and lastly does anyone know where i can get some castings of suitable  4mm ducketts. A google search has not given me any leads as yet. 

 

Thanks

[Nearholmer]

Surely an all third would never have had duckets, not having a guard’s compartment.

[IWCR]

Picture of the side would be good.

If a brake third the duckets were on the brake end between the guards door and the end, these were normally flush steel sheeted after removal hence the position is obvious, (no mouldings).  The end was also often rebuilt with different windows.  An internet search should give pictures of the LBSC ducket shape and end windows.

If you have a 9 compartment full third this is not easy, some of these were rebuilt from brake thirds for the Isle of Wight for which kits do exist. The rebuild was very extensive with the whole brake end removed and replaced with compartments, returning this to the brake third format would be very difficult.

 

Pete

[Lastgaspandy]

excuse my ignorance, but are we saying that a full third never existed in LBSCR days, and these were a rebuild from brake thirds.

 

[Nick Holliday]

There were plenty of 54ft full thirds built by the Brighton. The specific kit, Alan Gibson by the sound of it, was intended for Isle of Wight modellers and was based upon the rebuilt stock as found on the island. I don't know how different the IOW rebuild was from a mainland original, and I suspect that it is marginal, and probably undetectable on a layout. Over the years many island coaches lost parts of the timber mouldings to the panels, some ending completely flush sided, but I don't think this applied to the all thirds.

For some reason the Southern originally transferred only brake thirds, of various types, and some composite coaches, so, presumably, the actual operational requirements needed more third class accommodation, hence the rebuilding. I don't know why full thirds weren't transferred, perhaps they were earmarked for the DC electric train conversion programme.

[Lastgaspandy]

Thanks for the information. It looks like we are good to go with the all third as it is. 

 

It was the instruction that confused me in stating that ducketts had been removed and as pointed out above only a brake would have any need for ducketts to start with. 

[IWCR]

I dont have details of the mainland Full Thirds but I would expect equi-spaced compartments.

The IOW rebuild Full Thirds do differ slightly in the added compartments but only by an odd inch here and there, as stated above this would not be noticeable in 4mm.  Indeed without doing some very detail checking I couldnt say the model kits even reproduced this detail.

A detail not visible is that the original body framing was built for 3/8" timber paneling and rebated accordingly,  the added compartments were built with framing for steel sheet panels with minimal rebates.

 

Pete

[chris45lsw]

Yes Nick Holliday's surmise is correct - the building of suburban EMUs took up so many thirds that there weren't any to spare for the IoW, hence the rebuilding of brake thirds.

 

Chris KT