Genesis of an Inglenook?

[hartleymartin]

I must also point out that the layout board is 120cm x 30cm, so it doesn't exactly need much in the way of framing, and will probably be exhibited sitting on top of a trestle table.

 

I'm getting a bit frustrated with getting Kadee couplers to work. I may just switch back to tension-locks and use the brian-kirby method with wire staples.

[hartleymartin]

 

Just finished a test shunting session.

 

The things which make the Kadee couplers work well:

 

- Dead slow running. The magnets are only 20mm long and require more precise positioning to work reliably.

- Wagons not too free-rolling. I stuffed little foam under one axle of each wagon to slow them.

- Layout dead level. The kitchen bench is pretty level, unlike some of my other tables and work-spaces.

 

The old Hornby Trainset controller worked well for shunting in O gauge, but is not as good for OO gauge. I reckon that the 40:1 gears, large motors and flywheels in my O gauge locos tends to smooth out the Hornby controller. It isn't a "bad" controller by any means, but it is clearly intended for running trains around loops rather than the precise control needed for shelf-layouts. The reversing switch is a little awkward, which is going to be a major consideration for a replacement controller.

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by hartleymartin

[Stubby47]

If you can, replace the Hornby controller with a Gaugemaster Model W, the handheld/walkabout one.

It has much better slow speed control.

[hartleymartin]

I will have to get the new controller after next pay packet.

 

Just retested the Hornby Controller with my O gauge locos. The Hudswell Clarke likes it just fine but my brass H class Manning Wardle seems to like it less. It will be interesting to compare the performance with a gaugemaster unit.

 

In reality I've just been putting off going to DCC. The only trouble is that I don't like most DCC controllers.

[south_tyne]

14 hours ago, hartleymartin said:

Knaufboard is basically a type of insulation board. I plan to use some 5mm Foamcore board as a sub-base for the track. I plan to use some 1" square aluminium box-section for the frame (I have some in the garage) and then 3mm MDF to form the outside faces of the layout module. The plan is to then use speaker-cabinet carpet covering. Basically, I want to be able to make this without having to use power tools or saws. The only exception of course is the soldering iron that I will need to attach track power. At the moment I'm using a pair of alligator clips!

 

Thanks Martin, that's really useful 

[hartleymartin]

A few comments in the Hornby section of this forum seems to indicate that the motors used in the newer Hornby locos don't like the old Hornby Controller I have (It is well over 15 years old). It seems that an investment in a good Gaugemaster controller is next in line.

 

I was going to get myself a new controller, but the new Hornby Terriers arrived and I just had to have Rolvenden in KESR Blue. LBSC Improved Engine Green "Stepney" would have been the only one to trump that for me, but was not on display at the time. I also discovered that my usual no. 18 Kadee couplers foul on the coupling hooks of the terrier so I'll have to obtain some no. 19s tomorrow. No worries though, since the no. 18 give me a nice close-coupling on the wagons. Only disappointment was the lack of sprung buffers on the new terrier model.

 

New set of axles for the Bachmann J72 arrived today. Strangely, that particular loco seems to run just fine on the old Hornby Controller.

Edited April 11, 2019 by hartleymartin

[john new]

On 11/04/2019 at 13:12, hartleymartin said:

A few comments in the Hornby section of this forum seems to indicate that the motors used in the newer Hornby locos don't like the old Hornby Controller I have (It is well over 15 years old). It seems that an investment in a good Gaugemaster controller is next in line.

 

I was going to get myself a new controller, but the new Hornby Terriers arrived and I just had to have Rolvenden in KESR Blue. LBSC Improved Engine Green "Stepney" would have been the only one to trump that for me, but was not on display at the time. I also discovered that my usual no. 18 Kadee couplers foul on the coupling hooks of the terrier so I'll have to obtain some no. 19s tomorrow. No worries though, since the no. 18 give me a nice close-coupling on the wagons. Only disappointment was the lack of sprung buffers on the new terrier model.

 

New set of axles for the Bachmann J72 arrived today. Strangely, that particular loco seems to run just fine on the old Hornby Controller.

Have never liked the Hornby train set controllers. Can thoroughly recommend Gaugemaster gear as a satisfied user of their controllers for many years. (No trade connection, merely an independent user)

[hartleymartin]

I saw a youtube video where a person explained and demonstrated the Gaugemaster controllers against pure, smoothed DC. It seems that the key for Gaugemaster is that they don't have smoothing which effectively gives a 100Hz pulsing which significantly improves slow-speed running. I am sure that my old Hornby Controller would be just fine for a tail-chaser at moderate speed, but not for slow, precise control needed for shunting - especially since I use 20mm long magnets under the track for my Kadee couplers.

[hartleymartin]

The other day I came home with a Gaugemaster model W controller. I used the Hornby controller's AC output to power it and I am currently using crocodile clip leads to power the track. With the Easter weekend, a lot of shops will be closed, so I will have to wait until next week to head to an electronics shop for the required DIN socket and plug. The train control is greatly improved. Although, for some reason the old Bachmann J72 seems to perform exactly the same. The Hornby J94 is only slightly improved, but the new Hornby Terrier is now at last controllable. I suspect that the Hornby Terrier has some issues with the wheel pick-ups as it sometimes stalls on the points. I think one of the centre-axle pick-ups is not making proper contact on one side, since when I turn the loco around it seems to have far less issues.

 

I also started looking into motorising the points. I could just do it mechanically with DPDT slide switches and wire-in-the-tube, but I kind of like the idea of a control panel and not touching the layout at all. After investigating the Peco point motors, PL-15 switches, etc, I found that it would be practically the same cost to just buy a couple of Cobalt Analogue point motors. The plan is to surface-mount these, hide them in buildings and use wire-in-the-tube to form the linkage to the points.

[Stubby47]

I find with the model W I can roll the speed knob around with just my thumb, holding the box in my palm. This leaves the other hand free to push buttons, prod things or uncouple, as required.

 

Though, weirdly, I can use it better in my right hand, although I'm left handed...

[hartleymartin]

I did some more homework and found that Peco point motors with a surface-mount and then PL-15 switches would end up costing a fair bit. Funnily enough, Cobalt slow-action motors from DCC Concepts actually worked out cheaper, so I obtained a couple of them today. The only thing not in stock at the local hobby shop (remember those?) were the right-angle attachments. The plan is the surface-mount them at the rear of the layout with wire-in-tube running to the points themselves. The motors will be hidden in suitable buildings. The "tube" portion I plan to use bicycle gear cable housings. I have plenty of these since one of my other hobbies is vintage/classic bicycles. These are lined with some sort of slippery plastic (teflon?) and I plan to use some 1mm brass rod through them, all lubricated with a bit of labelle 102 or white grease. The hopes are that they will remain maintenance-free for a long time (long time? Wasn't I planning to sell this layout after it is finished?)

 

I also picked up a bottle of "Ballast Magic" which is a glue powder. The idea is that you mix it in with the ballast, get it all tamped down and then lightly spray with water to make it set. The ballast I'll be using is a 50/50 mix of medium grey and fine cinders from woodland scenics. I am given to understand that this stuff is made from crushed nut shells. One bag of each will be more than plenty for the whole layout. A quick check of the inter webs shows that I can buy a packet of 10x A4-sized Cork sheets at Kmart down the street for $4. I don't know what thickness it is, but I am hoping that it is at least 2mm andI can use it for the track base. The plan is to use 5mm foamcore board as a sub-roadbed and cork sheet (with holes cut for the uncoupling magnets) on top. The cork sheet should then allow me to use some sort of spray-paint to pain the track then ballasting will follow. I'm not sure that foam-core will react well with spray-paint, hence the cork sheet just to be on the safe side.

[hartleymartin]

Twiddling my thumbs over the layout at the moment. I can't do any more work on it until I get those right-angle adaptors for the point motors, and I had a good couple of free days to get stuff done too!

[hartleymartin]

I wired up the controller with a plug and I've wired up a socket. Now I just need to finish up the baseboard so I'll have somewhere for the socket to be mounted. I have also come to appreciate having heat-shrink tubing to help secure the wires and give them mechanical strength. I have used a 180-degree 5-pin din plug and socket from Jaycar Electronics. Of course, the advantage of doing it this way is that you can use the one controller on more than one layout!

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by hartleymartin

[mogtrains]

I only just 'discovered' what a huge difference using different DC controllers can make ( I normally use DCC these days).. testing slow running on my new little layout, I found that the KPC feedback controller was not friendly to some locos.. my trusty old gaugemaster Combi was okay.. but when i plugged in my Kato controller, the difference was really noticeable.. especially with the Oxford Adams Radial.. what I assumed was a noisy motor and reluctant performer just glides now! every day is a school day :-)

[josh_will]

Regarding the Kadees, I find I need to put foam on top of both axles, I cut out two cubes of foam around the size of a sugar cube and hold them in place with lumps of Blu-tac. If you try to spin the axles with your finger they should barely rotate - this will allow the Kadees to work well, the wagons won't get pushed backwards when you try to couple and they won't get dragged along and not uncouple when you want them to uncouple when over a magnet.

 

I believe that in the US wagons tend to be much heavier, and they should be weighted at the official standards set by the modelling associations over there. This might mean that Kadees are more reliable there without the need to add resistance to the axles, I don't know for sure.

 

I spent weeks trying to find a solution for reliable uncoupling for my micro layout and eventually settled on Kadees after extensive testing of them because they can be 95% reliable if you get the set up just right.

 

Also the height is crucial, they must be consistent so if you have any that are too high or too low then paper or card shims in the gearboxes or NEM pockets will make it work.

 

 

Josh

[hartleymartin]

A lot has happened since I last posted on this. The Layout baseboard was not successful - it failed to remain flat whilst in storage. That said, all the locos, stock and track are safely in storage whilst I investigate other options. I now have a remarkably larger collection of woodworking tools so I intend to try something in timber. I am also eyeing off the Hornby W4, Hattons Barclay and a number of other little industrial shunters. Had these things been available 20 years ago I might never have made 7mm scale my primary area!

 

 

[Pacific231G]

2 hours ago, hartleymartin said:

A lot has happened since I last posted on this. The Layout baseboard was not successful - it failed to remain flat whilst in storage. That said, all the locos, stock and track are safely in storage whilst I investigate other options. I now have a remarkably larger collection of woodworking tools so I intend to try something in timber. I am also eyeing off the Hornby W4, Hattons Barclay and a number of other little industrial shunters. Had these things been available 20 years ago I might never have made 7mm scale my primary area!

 

 

Hi Martin

Sorry to hear that your baseboard was not succesful but grateful to you for sharing your experience with it.

I'd been thinking of using blue insulatation as a baseboard material but your experience of it not remaining flat in storage may suggest it's not such a good idea and maybe sticking to conventional timber construction would be better. Do you think the warping was that down to the insulation board itself or the box section aluminium framing that I think you said you were planning to use. Was there something in the structural form of it that pulled it out of shape?

 

[hartleymartin]

Now that I have a circular saw, straight edge and mitre saw it will be relatively easy to make that style of baseboard construction. Might I ask what thickness did you use for the top?

 

I suspect that my lack of success with my baseboard was due to using the foam unsupported. I think if I had boxed in the sides with thin plywood or MDF then covered it with carpet it may have been more successful.

 

Also, I think it may have been because it was sat upon a shelf at a strange angle and on top of a few boxes in a hot garage.

[hartleymartin]

Jim - when I advise people on how to make things, I do tell them exactly how I did it. I prefer to tell people that you can do it with basic and inexpensive hand-tools, rather than flashing my collection of expensive trade-level power tools. I don't want to put-off beginners that might join the hobby.

[hartleymartin]

Come to think of it, I could offer to make such baseboards for people in between jobs. January has been a bit slower than anticipated and two big jobs that I had lined up... well, one was cancelled because the corporate client (multi-million, multi-national type) didn't want to pay a materials deposit, and another was delayed. So I might just go shopping for some plywood and make up a baseboard this week. Only other confirmed work at the moment is the new garden shed for Mum and a bit of gardening again for Mum.

[hartleymartin]

Sorry Jim - That wasn't intended as a criticism towards you. More my thinking out loud about what I would tell people at exhibitions.