Dcc controller recommendations

[MickkyL]

Hi,

At the moment I only have a program track as the layout is a work in progress. I have it controlled via merg but am considering an off the shelf system to which end I am looking for suggestions.

I have the following in mind :-

dynamis, nce power cab , Hornby elite or the gaugmaster one.

hope this post is allowed and in the correct place.

[Art Dent]

Hi Mickky

 

Personally, I wouldn't go anywhere near the Hornby Elite - some aspects of Hornby's implementation aren't fully NMRA-compliant.

 

The Dynamis is nice, if expensive, but the infra-red communication between walk-around throttle and base station is sometimes unreliable - particularly if there are flourescent lights nearby.

 

I had the Gaugemaster Prodigy Express with the Advance walk-around throttle and an additional Advance2 throttle.  It was great although the rotary throttle didn't always recognise the operator input.

 

I now have the NCE PowerCab and it works in much the same way as the Gaugemaster and I'm very happy with it.  It reads CVs from decoders reliably (something the Prodigy didn't do although others have reported a different experience to me) and it is easily expandable like the Gaugemaster system but the NCE misses out on a dedicated program Track output which the Gaugemaster had.  There are simple ways to replicate this on the NCE system.  That said, the NCE hand-held throttle has two pairs of buttons for incereasing the speed by +/- 1 step or +/- 10 steps which is very useful and which the Gaugemaster didn't have.

 

There are other systems too by the likes of Lenz, ECoS and Roco - but I have no experience of these.

 

If you have any railway model shops nearby and they have several systems - try them out and see which you like.  You could also seek out a local club and pop along on a club night - folks will be only too happy to help.

 

If you are anywhere near Lincoln, Digitrains have a large-ish multi track/multi gauge test track and at least three different DCC control systems that potential purchasers can try out.

 

Ultimately you have to find a system that you like - regardless of what others try to tell you to get.

 

It may help others if you post details of your budget, scale (eg N, OO or O), proposed layout and locomotive stock - eg small shunting layout with no more than 5 locos or a large layout with dozens.  Also if you intend to operate your layout singly or together with others.

 

Another point to bear in mind is do you want to be able to control accessories - eg, lighting, signals and points - from the walk-around throttle (cab).  Some systems are better than others at doing this.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Art

Edited March 15, 2019 by Art Dent

[JJGraphics]

This question has been asked many times in the past and the only real answer is to choose a system which you are comfortable with and regard as affordable. Everyone will have their differing personal view and preferences about the various off-the-shelf systems which will also be influenced by the depth of their pocket. When I moved to DCC a few years ago, I visited several shops, talked to people, both retailers and exhibitors operating their layouts at shows and "played" with a number of different systems until I found one which did what I perceived I needed and felt comfortable and intuitive to use.

 

I bought a GaugeMaster Prodigy Advance 2 and that served me faultlessly for over five years and continues to work faultlessly on the layout of a friend to whom I sold it. At that point I had decided I wanted much more functionality and moved to an ESU ECoS 50210 which I use in conjunction with DecoderPro on my Mac.

 

So, my suggestions are: Try some different systems as there really is no substitute for handling a controller to get the feel of it. Talk to people as there is nothing better than the first-hand experience of a user. Don't buy something too basic which you may quickly outgrow. 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by JJGraphics

[Phil S]

There are many more makes and models of controllers available - many of which are more up to date in capabilities than the basic list you have mentioned.  Some research on the internet via search engines is recommended !   Decide also whether you want handheld controllers, and/ or a central operating position.  Wireless or cabled.     Knob slider or touch screen - tablets and smart phones are an increasingly popular way to control layouts - not just locos -  how easy will it be to control accessories from the (chosen controller) ... what expansion potential does each have -  what 'control bus' does it use ?  eg Expressnet or Loconet  .... ie what other makes of handset  or software are compatible with it ?

There are free to use softwares, and pay-for softwares (which allow a free trial before real commitment ) - try seeing what options these could being to yuo in the future, as it may affect your choice of path now.     Note that Z21 (black) and z21 (white) are the full, and basic levels respectively of the Z21/Multimaus  'family', and  Digikeijs make a 'similar' model which offers the user a wider choice .... worth reading ALL these before spending any money in a hurry ! 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Phil S
tryping errers

[RedgateModels]

5 minutes ago, Art Dent said:

If you are anywhere near Lincoln, Digitrains have a large-ish multi track/multi gauge test track and at least three different DCC control systems that potential purchasers can try out.

 

This is what I always recommend. Jeremy is very knowledgeable and you can't beat being able to try them all out for yourself

[Ian Morgan]

Why replace the Merg offering? You will not find a system as capable for anywhere near the same price. If you are worried about it only producing 1Amp, then adding a Merg 5Amp or 10Amp booster will still be a cheaper option.

 

[meil]

12 minutes ago, Ian Morgan said:

Why replace the Merg offering? You will not find a system as capable for anywhere near the same price. If you are worried about it only producing 1Amp, then adding a Merg 5Amp or 10Amp booster will still be a cheaper option.

 

And there is a 3 amp version of the Command Station available now which will eliminate the need for a booster in the majority of cases.

[yelrow]

I can find no fault with the Hornby Elite. It does everything asked of it, and with 3   additional walkabout select controllers, at various points of layout, i have complete control.  Elite is fully compliant with regulations.

[RedgateModels]

1 minute ago, yelrow said:

Elite is fully compliant with regulations.

 

Agree, I'd like to see where it is officially stated that Elite has some aspects of it's implementation that aren't fully NMRA-compliant.

[Mike Buckner]

The question of Elite compliance was mooted before it became clear that the original NMRA spec was ambiguous. The NMRA have now admitted this, and sanctioned both interpretations as compliant. It had to do with whether you regard the "first" number as 1 or the "first" number as zero. Hornby had chosen the minority interpretation.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Mike Buckner
better expressed

[MickkyL]

Thank you all very much, I realise in the end it boils down to my personal experience but other people's views are always interesting.

[sunbeam.20]

After having used a few of the brands mentioned,  NCE is the most reliable and very user friendly. Easily connected to a computer with the ability to set up and use jmri Decoderpro and wifi loco control.

Matthew

[Crosland]

3 hours ago, Mike Buckner said:

The question of Elite compliance was mooted before it became clear that the original NMRA spec was ambiguous. The NMRA have now admitted this, and sanctioned both interpretations as compliant. It had to do with whether you regard the "first" number as 1 or the "first" number as zero. Hornby had chosen the minority interpretation.

Do you have a link to that? I would like to know which number you are referring to.

[Mike Buckner]

29 minutes ago, Crosland said:

Do you have a link to that? I would like to know which number you are referring to.

 

Part of the issue is explained here:

 

https://dccwiki.com/Accessory_Address

 

As I recall (I can't find a link immediately to hand), a related issue is that some accessory decoders offer addresses in groups of 4, grouping them as 0 to 3, 4 to 7, etc. Whereas others group them as 1 to 4, 5 to 8, etc. Some command stations make similar assumptions (either way). Mismatches between conventions of one supplier's command station and another supplier's decoder have caused confusion in the past.

 

There was another issue with a Hornby command station (I forget which one), where the electrical signal output to the track was liable to manifest "ringing" to a greater extent than other command stations, so that some decoders did not interpret the commands correctly. TCS decoders were prone to have problems, and TCS published photos of oscilloscope readings applied to a Hornby command station showing the ringing. 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Mike Buckner
clarification

[RedgateModels]

32 minutes ago, Mike Buckner said:

There was another issue with a Hornby command station (I forget which one), where the electrical signal output to the track was liable to manifest "ringing" to a greater extent than other command stations, so that some decoders did not interpret the commands correctly. TCS decoders were prone to have problems, and TCS published photos of oscilloscope readings applied to a Hornby command station showing the ringing. 

 

Select, not Elite

[40034_Nick]

5 hours ago, JJGraphics said:

This question has been asked many times in the past and the only real answer is to choose a system which you are comfortable with and regard as affordable. Everyone will have their differing personal view and preferences about the various off-the-shelf systems which will also be influenced by the depth of their pocket. When I moved to DCC a few years ago, I visited several shops, talked to people, both retailers and exhibitors operating their layouts at shows and "played" with a number of different systems until I found one which did what I perceived I needed and felt comfortable and intuitive to use.

 

I bought a GaugeMaster Prodigy Advance 2 and that served me faultlessly for over five years and continues to work faultlessly on the layout of a friend to whom I sold it. At that point I had decided I wanted much more functionality and moved to an ESU ECoS 50210 which I use in conjunction with DecoderPro on my Mac.

 

So, my suggestions are: Try some different systems as there really is no substitute for handling a controller to get the feel of it. Talk to people as there is nothing better than the first-hand experience of a user. Don't buy something too basic which you may quickly outgrow. 

 

 

I Would 100% save a bit more money for the ESU ECoS 50200 or 50210 ... I have seen many club members struggle with many a controller but not the ECoS. nI have one and its a complete game changer for running trains..

If that really is out of your budget then get the Roco z21 which can be controlled by a smartphone, iPad etc.

 

 

 

 

[Alan Kettlewell]

I just love my Roco Z21 - in my opinion one of the best and most user friendly systems around, packed full of features and wireless operation for just under £300.  

 

Definitely worth considering.

 

Cheers .., Alan

 

[ianLMS]

I also love the Roco, but I have the much cheaper z21 Start (white one), with the red Mulitmaus handset and Wi-fi package (approx £150 all in from www.scograil.co.uk) so I can operate loco's and points/accesories from a PC/tablet or phone. I prefer to operate loco's via the Multimaus and the points via the tablet plus 3 ADS-8SX accesory decoders.

 

I agree that its down to what you want it to do, your budget and personal preference and you can't beat going to a shop or show and seeing how each one works, finding out their limitations and testing them out for yourself.

 

I do not regret getting the Roco and have been very pleased with it for the last 3 years. 

[Philou]

Just to chuck in my tuppence worth,

 

I have an ECoS 50200 and I love it - it is not cheap though!!! Tactile screen with two rotary knobs for independent control of two trains at any moment, plus you can have others 'en route' at the same time. The screen will permit the creation of a mimic board with your layout on-screen (other bits of hardware will be needed to control the pointwork etc). You can duplicate the screen on a PC or tablet (though I haven't done so yet).

 

Downside is that it is expensive to repair (has to go back to Germany) - shouldn't ever need repair though (except if you're Mr Clumsy - don't ask !)

 

The club to which I belong, use Roco hand-helds and can have three or four all linked into the system via RJ 11 (telephone not ethernet type) plugs, which they can unplug and replug elsewhere to follow any particular train. More flexible (and cheaper) than the ECoS in that respect.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[JJGraphics]

2 hours ago, 40034_Nick said:

 

I Would 100% save a bit more money for the ESU ECoS 50200 or 50210 ... I have seen many club members struggle with many a controller but not the ECoS. nI have one and its a complete game changer for running trains..

If that really is out of your budget then get the Roco z21 which can be controlled by a smartphone, iPad etc.

 

 

 

 

 

100% agree with that. The ECoS 50210 is a superb piece of kit.

 

John

[WIMorrison]

How many DCC controllers and command stations are there on the market?

 

That defines how many recommendations you are liable to get without providing some specific requirements as currently every system that anyone recommends will meet you undefined scope because they can all run a DCC model

[peach james]

Other options:  LDCC running on a Mindstorms RCX 1.0.  SPROG.  Digitrax (which is the big name over here).  NCE's full meal deal rather than PowerCab.   ZTC.

 

There are all kinds of options out there for command station/handset.  I have seen good reviews for NCE, Digitrax, Roco, ECoS, Lenz.  They appear to me to be the first tier systems.  If you are going with a manufacturer system, then Hornby & Bachmann both do kit which works.  The Hornby Select is best avoided, due to being a piece of (didn't save the trees...).  I'd put Gaugemaster/MRC in the 2nd tier of kit as well, along with NCE PowerCab.  (though PowerCab has a good upgrade path).  

 

A LOT depends on how you want to control the train, and how you deal with the interface.  You are going to plump out at least 3 loco's worth of dosh to get DCC going.  Even the cheapest options (which I think would be SPROG) is going to set you back about $200 (or a hundred pounds) for the first loco.  The more expensive options go up from that- but even ECoS is only going to set you back 5 locos or so...

 

James

[Sir TophamHatt]

Spent the last 10 mins or so trying to find a topic I started a few years back asking the same question.

I can't figure out how the search streams work as I've asked for my own topics (that I started) from anytime, oldest first but it doesn't show me a list of topics like the old RMweb.

 

The general help I got was:

 

A lot of people have the NCE system.

However, I understood repairs took place in America, the power was on the low side (although you could buy an additional power booster), and something about UK power supplies and warranty perhaps?

 

I settled with the Prodigy Advance 2.

I don't think I'd be operating with one hand, so the turn of the knob doesn't bother me.  I've not noticed the knob not registering a turn, unless I turn it pretty quick, but then I'm either going to 28 or 0 speed so just keep turning it anyway.

 

Am I tempted by the ESU?
After looking at it, yes.  But I have a good system now and a baby on the way so no chance of replacing it!

[Art Dent]

6 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Spent the last 10 mins or so trying to find a topic I started a few years back asking the same question.

I can't figure out how the search streams work as I've asked for my own topics (that I started) from anytime, oldest first but it doesn't show me a list of topics like the old RMweb.

 

Similarly with me.

 

6 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

A lot of people have the NCE system.

However, I understood repairs took place in America, the power was on the low side (although you could buy an additional power booster), and something about UK power supplies and warranty perhaps?

 

As I understood it there is a UK retailer who repairs NCE equipment - but I can't recall who it is.

 

6 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

I settled with the Prodigy Advance 2.

I don't think I'd be operating with one hand, so the turn of the knob doesn't bother me.  I've not noticed the knob not registering a turn, unless I turn it pretty quick, but then I'm either going to 28 or 0 speed so just keep turning it anyway.

 

With my Prodigy system (as with my NCE), I have 128 speed steps set, so the rotary control not  registering was a frequent occurrence.

 

6 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Am I tempted by the ESU?
After looking at it, yes.  But I have a good system now and a baby on the way so no chance of replacing it!

 

Me too.  Looks lovely (and always gets great reports) but around £500-600 ?!

 

Art

 

[Izzy]

I think the advantage of the rotary control on the Prodigy handsets is that it is an encoder type, so picking up the speed of a previously set loco is smooth and easy. How many steps it moves depends how fast you turn it. It will register individual steps if done slowly, and go straight up the scale to the max, 28/128 is spun quickly.

 

The downside of the rotary control is it’s an encoder type which seem to be less reliable/go faulty quite a bit........I’ve had the one on my 9 year old wired handset replaced at a cost of £15. The one on my wireless handset is now a bit iffy at times, but since I really only use the buttons for speed control I won’t bother again. I would say that the ability to swop between the two on the fly is very useful.

 

I do think that perhaps one of the biggest differences to consider between the various systems is whether they are ‘base stations’ with separate display/control handsets, like the Prodigy, or ‘all-in-ones’ such as the Digitrax Zepher or ECoS. Some of course can be both. 

 

Much depends on on how you wish to arrange things and the space available. So many choices..........

 

Izzy