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Dcc controller recommendations


MickkyL
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3 hours ago, Izzy said:

 

....I do think that perhaps one of the biggest differences to consider between the various systems is whether they are ‘base stations’ with separate display/control handsets, like the Prodigy, or ‘all-in-ones’ such as the Digitrax Zepher or ECoS. Some of course can be both..........

 

A very good point Izzy.

Maybe it could be better described as a choice between systems that use handsets (either wireless or tethered) and console based systems (fixed operating position).

 

The "both" meaning console based systems, that can have optional handsets added for greater flexibility, or additional operators.

 

The choice between a handset based or console based system, is one of the fundamental decisions to be addressed when selecting which DCC system to purchase.

 

 

Ron

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8 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

The choice between a handset based or console based system, is one of the fundamental decisions to be addressed when selecting which DCC system to purchase.

 

 

Ron

 

It is worth remembering that most of the console-based systems like the ECoS can be connected to WiFi and that technique permits those systems to utilise wireless handsets either in the form of proprietry units or by using mobile phones with appropriate software. I appreciate that some handset-and-base station systems can also do this.

 

The ability to use wireless remote handsets was one of the many features that attracted me to the ECoS after having the Prodigy with a wired handset (Yes, I know the Prodigy can go WiFi, but it is an expensive add-on to an existing system). Using mobile phones offers a low-cost way of adding handsets as many people already have one. If you anticipate having a larger layout or would like the opportunity for multiple operators, that is something to bear in mind when choosing a system.

 

I have a modest BLT, but sometimes share operation with two friends. One of us is the "signalman" and operates the points and signals from the ECoS console whilst the other two are "drivers" and each "drive" using TouchCab on their iPhones connected to the ECoS via WiFi. That scenario provides quite a bit of interest and we try to operate for periods without speaking to each other, just observing a timetable listing on a large sheet of paper, looking at the signals and moving trains accordingly. It is quite satisfying if it all goes well but it does need a bit of concentration on everybody's part!

 

John

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

A very good point Izzy.

Maybe it could be better described as a choice between systems that use handsets (either wireless or tethered) and console based systems (fixed operating position).

 

The "both" meaning console based systems, that can have optional handsets added for greater flexibility, or additional operators.

 

The choice between a handset based or console based system, is one of the fundamental decisions to be addressed when selecting which DCC system to purchase.

 

 

Ron

 

 

 Yes Ron,

 

I was actually thinking in terms of where the units are located. For many years, well the early '80's, I have always had the mains power boxed on the ground and only low voltage - 16vac - going anywhere near a layout. I generated a modular type arrangement using DIn plugs and either home-produced or commercial hand held DC controllers ( this was before todays DCC systems  arrived). It is still in use today, and can plug into any layout I build if I want to test anything on simple DC. But my PA2 is the daily use equipment.

 

I don't know if the ECoS/Digitrax Zepher/Z21 etc are like the MRC/Gaugemaster with separate laptop type SMS bricks pluging in so they can be on the ground, but I really don't like the idea of the old type cased units with the transformers in the case along with the rest of it, like the DC units Gaugemaster still produce today. I know they are safe, it's Just me really.

 

But whatever, these units still need space to sit somewhere near/on the layout if they contain the actual controls for the layout, which the alternative handhelds don't. Just another design factor to take into account depending on the type/size of layout you have/want to make. Everybody has different needs and wants, so nothing is ever a one size fit.

 

Izzy

 

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As has been said, it is horses for courses and it depends on what sort of layout you have and how you want to operate it.

 

I was in the same position two years ago when I started out with DCC and in retrospect the answer would have to been able to go somewhere where I could spend hours trying all the different options. However, in the end I took a punt and luckily it worked out. My layout is 30ft long with about 45 sets of points and about 30 locos. I took the view that I needed a computer based system with the "mimic" panel on a screen as well as loco throttles. A traditional mimic panel, I reasoned would need about 6 miles of wire! I plumped for the sometimes maligned Hornby Elite plus Railmaster. I have computer monitor screens dotted round the layout (well, three of them!) and a wireless mouse and satellite mouse mats. I scoot up and down the layout on my office chair will wheels having a whale of a time! Like we have all said, it is your choice but my point is that if you are building a big layout, having everything on screen is a great help.

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4 hours ago, JST said:

.......I took the view that I needed a computer based system with the "mimic" panel on a screen as well as loco throttles.

A traditional mimic panel, I reasoned would need about 6 miles of wire! ......

 

A "glass screen" is an excellent and flexible way of displaying and using a mimic panel,....

....but

.....it is now possible to have a so called "traditional" physical mimic panel, with button or switches, LED's etc, working via DCC and not having 6 miles of wire. Just a simple short single cable connection to the DCC system's cab bus (e.g. XpressNet etc.).

Even a mini lever frame can be connected via DCC.

 

 

 

.

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18 minutes ago, JST said:

You are of course quite right Ron. However, due to the size of my layout, the mimic panel was going to be a bit big.

 

Perfectly understood.

I only intended to point out to anyone else reading such comments, that so called "traditional" (physical) mimic panels can still be used for DCC control of points, signals etc, if there's a personal preference for physical mimic panels over other options.

 

As evidenced by comments on this and other forums, there are still people out there that believe (incorrectly) that to use DCC for the control of points and signals, means either punching addresses into a handset or console keypad, or having to connect a computer and run some layout control software.

I intended to point out that this is not the case at all.

 

 

Ron

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I guess the other consideration is cost to use ratio.

 

I'm not sure that something like the ESU would really be worth the money for the amount of time I spend on my layout actually controlling trains.  I could save up and get one at the end of the year, but I am weary that it could be replaced by then too.

 

For the £600 odd, I could get 3 sound locos - even more if less.

 

Not sure what something the ESU would have over my current controller, that I'd actually use!

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I've been DCC for a couple of years. Someone on here recommended the NCE Power Cab. I looked at several systems, but was initially attracted by the price. It is very upgradable, and is intuitive to use. I've tried a couple of other systems at exhibitions, and find the PowerCab much nicer to use. It is personal taste though, and you should definitely try several systems before deciding. 

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On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 18:55, Art Dent said:

 

 

Me too.  Looks lovely (and always gets great reports) but around £500-600 ?! 

 

 

 

 

ESU is a good system. Played with it. But: A z21 (plus wireless modem) is much cheaper - and you are not restricted to 2 locos at a time. Have a tablet - gives you 2 locos to view at the same time, have your phone - gives you another one, have a multimouse, and you have another one. 

I love it if more people are around. If several people control the same loco - useful if you have a long layout - you see fully synchronised that the throttle is moved or any function key pressed on all devices having called this particular loco. 

 

So for those who need a turning knob: Fleischmann or Roco (they are equal but the colour of the case is different...) multimouse or wireless mouse.

For those who want graphic symbols and no number learning by heart: a tablet (doesn't matter if it is apple or android) or a smart phone. By the way even an I-pod touch can do it. Doesn't need to be a phone.

 

So for me z21 and Z21 are the winners. The z21 (white) will cover 95% of all user needs and is affordable. 

 

Vecchio, owner of a black and a white one...

 

Edited by Vecchio
i-pod- touch. The older i-pod cannot...
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2 hours ago, Vecchio said:

 

ESU is a good system. Played with it.

But: A z21 (plus wireless modem) is much cheaper - and you are not restricted to 2 locos at a time.

Have a tablet - gives you 2 locos to view at the same time, have your phone - gives you another one, have a multimouse, and you have another one..........

 

 

You can do exactly the same with the ESU ECoS.

Just like the z/Z21, you can also run other throttles on phones, iPads and on the dedicated MobileControl 2 handsets ( which have a motorised control wheel).

 

 

Ron

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On 19/03/2019 at 17:27, MikeHunter said:

I've been DCC for a couple of years. Someone on here recommended the NCE Power Cab. I looked at several systems, but was initially attracted by the price. It is very upgradable, and is intuitive to use. I've tried a couple of other systems at exhibitions, and find the PowerCab much nicer to use. It is personal taste though, and you should definitely try several systems before deciding. 

 

Yes the NCE Pro Cab Or Power Cab are ergonomically possibly the most drivable wired cabs and feel great in hand.  For newbies the powercab must be the most user friendly starter system, their software interface for programming and setting up new decoders is really easy to follow and understand (eg CV29 bits in plain English). It’s not perfect but right up there as one of the more useable dog bone hand held cabs. Lacks wireless but with long tethered coil cables that hasn’t been an issue for me so far with 16x12ft layout with multiple cab ports positioned around the layout. I lusted after the colour ECoS but the fixed twin base station console put me off and their wireless mobile II cabs were very expensive. The Roco Z21 May be a good compromise for folks who really want inexpensive wireless cabs (ie phones and tablets) but touchscreen throttle slider controls have control issues lacking tactile feel and requiring eyes on the display instead of watching the train. The Zimo Mx31 is superb and very driveable but an expensive system when you build it up. The Pick smart control which seems rebadged ESU bridges the wireless touchscreen concept with a physical rotary throttle control but not inexpensive. Touch screen cabs have an advantage for sound locos due to their ability to have personalised function button labels for sounds, but can lack precise throttle control for shunting, etc. There will never be a perfect system, a cabs physical and control ergonomics is very much a personal taste thing, my advice is try many different systems out at clubs, exhibitions or retailers that have demo stock set up in store. You’ll know in minutes Which is the right system for you.  

 

Personally and it’s just me I don’t like controlling points using DCC cabs of any kind (eg remembering accessory numbers for specific points), I prefer point switches or especially point levers either wired either to the switches or via a DCC bus to reduce running wires from each switch to each point motor. Switches give tactile feel and a visual indication as to how a point is set, as well as feeling more life like to operate. Just my tuppance 

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4 hours ago, NoelG said:

Personally and it’s just me I don’t like controlling points using DCC cabs of any kind (eg remembering accessory numbers for specific points), I prefer point switches or especially point levers either wired either to the switches or via a DCC bus to reduce running wires from each switch to each point motor. Switches give tactile feel and a visual indication as to how a point is set, as well as feeling more life like to operate. Just my tuppance

 

This is me too.

DCC layout but simple (off-on-off) switches for points.

 

I don't have a layout board, LEDs this or that, just put the switches in order of where they are; the left most points are the left switch, the middle ones are the middle switch etc etc...

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I agree, NCE control for the track (locos, rolling stock lighting function and turntable) point control separate. The NCE powercab is very user friendly and there are many options for procab, boosters, wireless,  wifi throttles,  jmri etc that you can't go wrong. Plus I have found that it is reliable,  Digitrax, Bachmann Dynamis, Hornby, MRC etc not so much.

Matthew

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23 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

 

This is me too.

DCC layout but simple (off-on-off) switches for points.......

 

 

He didn't say that if you read the quote again.

He said DC or DCC through switches, as opposed to DCC through cabs (e.g.  handsets).

 

For example, here is demonstration module used by DCC Concepts, to show their Cobalt S signal box levers being used to operate points and illuminate LED’s on a mimic board, all on DCC.

 

7B4C8000-1690-419F-818F-1D54FEE789D2.jpeg

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