Hattons Formations Diagram Discussion Group

[Hattons Dave]

Afternoon all,

 

We’ve had a great response to our new Railway Formations guides and we’d like to invite you to join in the discussion. Which are your favourites and what guides would you like to see the most?

 

You can join our brand new community on Facebook today to play your part in future Railway formations guides and share your thoughts and ideas with both the Hattons team and fellow enthusiasts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2242216175800967/

 

We're always keen to hear suggestions and requests for future diagrams and would love to involve the community even more.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

 

[Damo666]

11 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

Afternoon all,

 

We’ve had a great response to our new Railway Formations guides and we’d like to invite you to join in the discussion. Which are your favourites and what guides would you like to see the most?

 

You can join our brand new community on Facebook today to play your part in future Railway formations guides and share your thoughts and ideas with both the Hattons team and fellow enthusiasts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2242216175800967/

 

We're always keen to hear suggestions and requests for future diagrams and would love to involve the community even more.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Hi Dave,

 

Just spotted your "Railway Formations guides" on your website about an hour ago (whilst looking for your new 66s and wondering if they will be EM gauge upgradable). As someone who is coming back to the hobby and having a lot to learn, I'd like to thank you for these guides. It'll help me move up from just attaching 'something' to 'something else', to a train formation that is more meaningful.

 

As I'm not on Facebook, and have no intention of disclosing my personal life and what I eat to the world, saying as you've posted this announcement on RMWeb, can I ask that you use this medium for further ideas and discussions?

 

And my input would be: South Wales Freight route maps and freight formations.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Damo666

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

Hi Dave,

 

Just spotted your "Railway Formations guides" on your website about an hour ago (whilst looking for your new 66s and wondering if they will be EM gauge upgradable). As someone who is coming back to the hobby and having a lot to learn, I'd like to thank you for these guides. It'll help me move up from just attaching 'something' to 'something else', to a train formation that is more meaningful.

 

As I'm not on Facebook, and have no intention of disclosing my personal life and what I eat to the world, saying as you've posted this announcement on RMWeb, can I ask that you use this medium for further ideas and discussions?

 

And my input would be: South Wales Freight route maps and freight formations.

 

 

On the basis there is no RTR EM, only kits or converted OO then I think you just need to look at OO.

 

For Facebook, it isn't compulsory to 'disclose my personal life and what I eat to the world', that people choose to is their choice - me, I just read and occasionally contribute to the many interest groups that exist on there.  Plenty of modelling groups and real railway pages to view if you take the time to look.

 

[woodenhead]

20 minutes ago, Hattons Dave said:

Afternoon all,

 

We’ve had a great response to our new Railway Formations guides and we’d like to invite you to join in the discussion. Which are your favourites and what guides would you like to see the most?

 

You can join our brand new community on Facebook today to play your part in future Railway formations guides and share your thoughts and ideas with both the Hattons team and fellow enthusiasts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2242216175800967/

 

We're always keen to hear suggestions and requests for future diagrams and would love to involve the community even more.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

 

I would add, the links on Hattons page for the stock appear to show all gauges regardless - so I clicked on OO Mk1 CK in the End of Steam formations and I got N, OO and O coaches.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/SiteResults.aspx?searchfield=mk1 ck maroon OO coach corridor 

[Damo666]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

On the basis there is no RTR EM, only kits or converted OO then I think you just need to look at OO.

 

Understand, it's just that the Irish guys have made their brand new Deltic OO but easily convertible to EM orP4, and was wondering if Hatton's were also availing of the opportunity. I'm still in the OO camp, but weighing up my options.

[The Johnster]

I also choose to avoid Facebook, as you have to go to a lot of trouble in the settings to prevent it being very intrusive indeed, and they have a poor record when it comes to customer confidentiality.  I don't trust 'em!  

 

So I'm not sure what this is about; does it mean Hatton's have a FB page with items of interest regarding train formations?  

Edited March 17, 2019 by The Johnster

[Kelly]

14 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

Understand, it's just that the Irish guys have made their brand new Deltic OO but easily convertible to EM orP4, and was wondering if Hatton's were also availing of the opportunity. I'm still in the OO camp, but weighing up my options.

 

If the drive system follows along similar lines to Heljan and Bachmann mechanisms, then conversion should be fairly straight forward in terms of dropping wheels in. It depends really how the gears are aligned etc, ie whether half axles are used (as per Bachmann MUs) or whether a wider axle is used for the gear and brass bearings (as per Heljan diesels in some cases).

 

Hopefully Hatton's can give some answers on this when they're closer to release.

 

Accurascale have worked closely with the EMGS and S4S on their wagons to allow easy conversion to EM/P4. They'll be doing the same for their 55s, 92s and Mk5 stock I'd expect as it is a welcome feature.

 

Of course, the best manufacturer in this respect has been SLW with options for EM/P4 wheels to be fitted before dispatch for a small extra charge. I would love it if more manufacturers offered this option, but accept it is likely to be a relatively small number of buyers for viability to be unlikely.

[Damo666]

7 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I also choose to avoid Facebook, as you have to go to a lot of trouble in the settings to prevent it being very intrusive indeed, and they have a poor record when it comes to customer confidentiality.  I don't trust 'em!  

 

So I'm not sure what this is about; does it mean Hatton's have a FB page with items of interest regarding train formations?  

https://www.hattons.co.uk/NewsDetail.aspx?id=460

[Hattons Dave]

Evening all,

 

Thanks to everyone so far for getting involved.

We're certainly not going to ignore RMWeb as its often an invaluable source of information and knowledge so I'll keep checking back as I usually do anyway.

However, for this purpose we decided that the Facebook group system would work best to allow multiple threads of discussion to go on at once without continually spamming the forum and giving Mr York even more to do.

 

2 hours ago, Damo666 said:

Hi Dave,

 

Just spotted your "Railway Formations guides" on your website about an hour ago (whilst looking for your new 66s and wondering if they will be EM gauge upgradable). As someone who is coming back to the hobby and having a lot to learn, I'd like to thank you for these guides. It'll help me move up from just attaching 'something' to 'something else', to a train formation that is more meaningful.

 

As I'm not on Facebook, and have no intention of disclosing my personal life and what I eat to the world, saying as you've posted this announcement on RMWeb, can I ask that you use this medium for further ideas and discussions?

 

And my input would be: South Wales Freight route maps and freight formations.

 

 

 

In regards to the 66 and EM/P4 compatibility, whilst we don't specify this on our models I do imagine it will be possible to do for anyone who's interested.

The only real challenge would be re-installing the rotating axleboxes onto the new wheelsets.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[montyburns56]

How about one for Sleeper trains especially 70s formations.

[159220]

17 hours ago, Hattons Dave said:

 

We’ve had a great response to our new Railway Formations guides and we’d like to invite you to join in the discussion.

 

 

Though in principle they seem good, my expertise lies with the Wabtec modified Mk3 coach. The formations (and to an extent the coding is wrong - which I know is a Hornby issue, not yours - but do not fear they have been informed) are incorrect for the GWR 'Castle' GTi set. 

 

The formation is actually: 

 

A - TGS (Wifi pods on roof and ‘butterfly' external door)            B - TS                   C - TSD                D - TS (with ‘butterfly' external door)

 

As for Scotrail, the issue centres around the TGFB. This does not exist and the coach is actually a TFC. Angel/Scotrail are not fitting a TGS with first class seating and a 'cafe' service area. But a TF is being converted with a small 'cafe' area and some guard space. The formations are:

 

A - TFC (ex-TF) with a catering area, guards space and ‘butterfly' external door           B - TSD (Wifi pods on roof)             C - TSB (B for Bike space)             D - TSL               E - TSL(with ‘butterfly' external door)

Edited March 16, 2019 by 159220

[hexagon789]

6 hours ago, 159220 said:

 

Though in principle they seem good, my expertise lies with the Wabtec modified Mk3 coach. The formations (and to an extent the coding is wrong - which I know is a Hornby issue, not yours - but do not fear they have been informed) are incorrect for the GWR 'Castle' GTi set. 

 

The formation is actually: 

 

A - TGS (Wifi pods on roof and ‘butterfly' external door)            B - TS                   C - TSD                D - TS (with ‘butterfly' external door)

 

As for Scotrail, the issue centres around the TGFB. This does not exist and the coach is actually a TFC. Angel/Scotrail are not fitting a TGS with first class seating and a 'cafe' service area. But a TF is being converted with a small 'cafe' area and some guard space. The formations are:

 

A - TFC (ex-TF) with a catering area, guards space and ‘butterfly' external door           B - TSD (Wifi pods on roof)             C - TSB (B for Bike space)             D - TSL               E - TSL(with ‘butterfly' external door)

 

The ScotRail First Class/Buffet Car is indeed modified from a TF not a TGS, but it is coded TGFB (Trailer Guard First Buffet), as it does provide the guard's accomodation.

[hexagon789]

23 hours ago, Hattons Dave said:

Afternoon all,

 

We’ve had a great response to our new Railway Formations guides and we’d like to invite you to join in the discussion. Which are your favourites and what guides would you like to see the most?

 

You can join our brand new community on Facebook today to play your part in future Railway formations guides and share your thoughts and ideas with both the Hattons team and fellow enthusiasts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2242216175800967/

 

We're always keen to hear suggestions and requests for future diagrams and would love to involve the community even more.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

 

 

Can give you scores of options for ScotRail Express push-pull sets, I've made up pages of various formations observed from videos and photographs.

 

Also InterCity 125 and 225 sets, WCML Mk2f/Mk3 push-pull sets.

Edited March 16, 2019 by hexagon789

[Flood]

After looking at some of the formations on the Mk2F Coaches page I have decided to be polite and keep my thoughts to myself.

 

All I will say is that once incorrect information is posted on the net (on any site) then future readers may treat it as being the definitive answer.

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, Flood said:

After looking at some of the formations on the Mk2F Coaches page I have decided to be polite and keep my thoughts to myself.

 

All I will say is that once incorrect information is posted on the net (on any site) then future readers may treat it as being the definitive answer.

 

But unless you go and try to correct the misinformation, then it only perpetuates the inaccuracies.

Edited March 16, 2019 by newbryford

[159220]

18 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

The ScotRail First Class/Buffet Car is indeed modified from a TF not a TGS, but it is coded TGFB (Trailer Guard First Buffet), as it does provide the guard's accomodation.

 

Would you happen to have a photo of the data panel? As this one is going to bug me! Wabtec call the Angel/Scotrail coach A - TFC. I can only assume it is locally being re-titled once on depot. The data panel shall solve this one for us! 

 

16 hours ago, Flood said:

After looking at some of the formations on the Mk2F Coaches page I have decided to be polite and keep my thoughts to myself.

 

Interesting! I was wondering whether their other attempts correct. Clearly not!

[The Johnster]

On 15/03/2019 at 17:44, Damo666 said:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/NewsDetail.aspx?id=460

Thanks for that, Damo, you are very patient with an old Luddite.

 

At least I now know I can access this without having to submit to the horror that is Facebook!

[Flood]

To follow up my previous post:

 

[Bomag]

Flood

 

I take it that Hattons are listing what the closest coach they can flog you rather that what it should have been.

[Wickham Green]

On 18/03/2019 at 00:25, Bomag said:

Flood

 

I take it that Hattons are listing what the closest coach they can flog you rather that what it should have been.

That's certainly looked to be the case when they listed highly improbable formations for the 'P' class ......... I think ONE might have happened in preservation - but ........................

[woodenhead]

On 18/03/2019 at 00:25, Bomag said:

Flood

 

I take it that Hattons are listing what the closest coach they can flog you rather that what it should have been.

I am sure they are really just in it for the enthusiast wishing to make accurate trains. 

 

Just like the suggested purchases posts on Facebook that only ever have bargain sale items in them or the best seller list that seems to always feature the Hornby Railroad Hall - if that is their top seller then they must be manufacturing them on site. 

[Wickham Green]

Latest (?) list for Ally Pally totally misses the point that Ally Pally was only on a minor branch line served by tank engines ( N2 & forthcoming N7 perhaps ) with a couple of non-corridor coaches ( Gresley or Thompson ) - and would have been using 'S' Stock today if electrification had been completed ................... while the station they're actually talking about was called WOOD GREEN when most of their suggested formations were running.

 

...... see you Saturday anyway !

[Steven B]

The "Lancaster Local Coal" in the "End of BR steam" is an interesting one. It's been presented as a train where as the suporting photo looks more like a shunting move as the train has two brake vans next to the loco and the rest of the train is unbraked 16t minerals.

 

The "Alexandra Palace" entry has clearly been done to fit in with the exhibition; However, I wonder if the class 89 hauled "Modern Railways 500" is wishful thinking or do Hattons know something we don't....

 

 

Steven B.

[woodenhead]

6 minutes ago, Steven B said:

The "Lancaster Local Coal" in the "End of BR steam" is an interesting one. It's been presented as a train where as the suporting photo looks more like a shunting move as the train has two brake vans next to the loco and the rest of the train is unbraked 16t minerals.

 

The "Alexandra Palace" entry has clearly been done to fit in with the exhibition; However, I wonder if the class 89 hauled "Modern Railways 500" is wishful thinking or do Hattons know something we don't....

 

 

Steven B.

If you click on the 89 reference it goes to a wishlist........

[Wickham Green]

On 20/03/2019 at 13:00, Steven B said:

 

....................., I wonder if the class 89 hauled "Modern Railways 500" is wishful thinking or do Hattons know something we don't....

 

c'mon - by the time Modern Railways has been publishing for 500 years SOMEONE will have done a ready-to-run 89 !