My DCC journey

[Tallpaul69]

Hi Everyone,

As you may have seen from my last entry in my thread  "To DCC or not?" I have decided to go for DCC in my 00 gauge 12ftx8ft round and round layout, based on a 2 track WR main line, branch junction, and yard. 

The layout track plan will be a compromise because while the main focus is on a 1960-62 era scene in the lower Thames Valley west of London, I have, and wish to run, from time to time, locos and stock from a number of periods up to c2016 (when electrification infrastructure spread into the area).

 

I want to run singlehanded, a fairly intensive timetable, which I have generated from what I consider are the interesting movements from the 1960 WTT, coach and locomotive diagrams.

So, I think I need eventually, to have a touch screen mimic diagram.

 

Initially my DCC equipment will be used on a small end to end test track, that I am setting up in my workshop, which is separate from the dedicated railway room. 

 

Having set the scene in this first post, next time I will share the details of the equipment I have bought.

 

Best regards

Paul

[WIMorrison]

Paul

 

perhaps you should start a blog where you can develop the history of the project? That will also enable you to 'keep it under control' and not suffer the thread drift that happens

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by WIMorrison

[tigerburnie]

Good luck, you're a few months ahead of me, I shall watch with interest.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Good luck with the project Paul.

 

Ron

[Tallpaul69]

Thanks for your positive replies, Guys.

I have kicked off with an NCE Power Cab. Having seen good comments on this controller on my To DCC or not thread, and as my local model shop is a stockist and can give me help and support, it seemed a sensible way to go.

Chipping is not something that I feel confident to try myself, so I am happy to pay the charges to have it done for me.
Collected three chipped locos yesterday. They are a Hornby 08, a Bachmann Pannier and a Hornby Castle. All are fitted with Zimo non sound chips.

These locos were chosen to explore facets of DCC:-
The Castle to compare with my TTS Castle - I have third Castle which might soon get a sound chip. However,  I have received information which says that the HCC Castle(amongst others) was the Airfix 1979 body on a Dapol 1985 Chassis. Thus the Castles are not mechanically the same!
The shunters to compare diesel and steam shunters under DCC. Later a similar pair will get sound chips, again for comparison.
The panier is also non DCC ready, so I get a view of hard wired against socketed chips.

I have now completed the readdressing of the three locos recently chipped, and am pleased to say it was not difficult. They all work fine.
I then got overconfident and decided to try pairing the two shunters in what the NCE manual calls a consist.
This was not difficult, but the problem I have is that I can't work out and the manual doesn't help on how to stop the locos working in a consist and return them to working against their individual addresses.
When I call up the individual addresses and advance the throttle, they just don't move?

Any help on this would be appreciated?

 

I am also off to Ally Pally this weekend to gen up further on the possibilities.

Best regards
Paul

 

[WIMorrison]

Be very wary when talking to people at exhibitions- especially traders - who will say anything can be done with anything in the hope that they get the sale. Most traders have no experience of what they sell, there are a few that know what they are selling but they are very much in the minority.

 

An example was one ‘expert’ at a recent show who was giving out DCC costs to people to show how cheap his offering was - unfortunately hi prices were completely incorrect have over inflated all the competitors significantly to make his rubbish look attractive. 

 

It wasnt, it was overpriced tat but he sold several package to unsuspecting punters.

 

My advice for shows is simple, know more about the product than the person doing the selling and know what the street price is for the kit you are looking for - that way you don’t fall for the show hype and end up regretting a spend when you get home  

[Tallpaul69]

18 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

Be very wary when talking to people at exhibitions- especially traders - who will say anything can be done with anything in the hope that they get the sale. Most traders have no experience of what they sell, there are a few that know what they are selling but they are very much in the minority.

 

An example was one ‘expert’ at a recent show who was giving out DCC costs to people to show how cheap his offering was - unfortunately hi prices were completely incorrect have over inflated all the competitors significantly to make his rubbish look attractive. 

 

It wasnt, it was overpriced tat but he sold several package to unsuspecting punters.

 

My advice for shows is simple, know more about the product than the person doing the selling and know what the street price is for the kit you are looking for - that way you don’t fall for the show hype and end up regretting a spend when you get home  

Too True!

I tend to steer clear of what I term the "Market Traders" at exhibitions and talk to the people I know or whose reputation is good. Also I am good at resisting impulse buys!!

I probably will spend very little tomorrow, I will just talk to people and watch the running of relevant layouts.

[Pete the Elaner]

19 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I have now completed the readdressing of the three locos recently chipped, and am pleased to say it was not difficult. They all work fine.
I then got overconfident and decided to try pairing the two shunters in what the NCE manual calls a consist.
This was not difficult, but the problem I have is that I can't work out and the manual doesn't help on how to stop the locos working in a consist and return them to working against their individual addresses.
When I call up the individual addresses and advance the throttle, they just don't move?
 

Have patience. I could not get it to work first time either. I have no idea what I did wrong, but they seem to work ok now.

 

Consist is actually a real railway term, not an NCE one, although I never heard it until I started to use DCC either.

There are 2 types of consist: standard & advanced. Standard is done on the system. You create an address which sends out the same command to the 2 members.

Advanced is more flexible. You effectively give the members a 2nd address which they all respond to.. Hornby R8249 & TTS do not support advanced consisting.

I do not use the function regularly but I think I addressed the leading loco of my consist & they all move. Some functions are still individually controlled like lights & horn sounds. I think you can turn the sound itself on/off (engine startup) individually but once on, they should be synchronised with each other.

 

Take your time & try to enjoy the learning experience.

[Tallpaul69]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Have patience. I could not get it to work first time either. I have no idea what I did wrong, but they seem to work ok now.

 

Consist is actually a real railway term, not an NCE one, although I never heard it until I started to use DCC either.

There are 2 types of consist: standard & advanced. Standard is done on the system. You create an address which sends out the same command to the 2 members.

Advanced is more flexible. You effectively give the members a 2nd address which they all respond to.. Hornby R8249 & TTS do not support advanced consisting.

I do not use the function regularly but I think I addressed the leading loco of my consist & they all move. Some functions are still individually controlled like lights & horn sounds. I think you can turn the sound itself on/off (engine startup) individually but once on, they should be synchronised with each other.

 

Take your time & try to enjoy the learning experience.

Hi Pete, Iain, and other readers of this thread,

 

As consisting is not an urgent need even when my layout is built, I think I will put it on the back burner for now! I have only had the NCE a week or so, thus it is early days!

 

I might try standard (or old style as NCE term it) consisting, but  as I will mainly need it for top and tailing trains when I run modern eras, it is not urgent.

 

Next thing to try is altering the CV3 and 4 on the locos chipped so far to see what adjusting the acceleration/deceleration does for them!

 

Then I might get onto adjusting the volume of some of the sounds on the sound fitted locos, but this will probably get left until the second sound fitted loco is collected in a week or so.

 

Best regards

Paul

[Art Dent]

Hi Paul,

 

You might find this web page by Mark Gurries of interest regarding NCE's implementation of Consisting.

 

According to Mark "The NMRA DCC standard's decoder based "Advanced Consisting" sets the foundation of achieving a very prototypical consisting system.    NCE builds upon that NMRA foundation by adding some key missing command station features that put together with NMRA Advanced Consisting creates the easiest to use and operate.   To be clear, NCE remains 100% NMRA Advanced Consisting Compatible in adding these features.  The end result is NCE  DCC system offer the most flexible and prototypical form of locomotive consisting available in DCC world period.  When it is setup the "NCE Way", there is no comparison to any other DCC system."  Mark's emphasis, not mine.

 

NCE Consisting web page link.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Art

 

 

[Alan Kettlewell]

On 21/03/2019 at 17:02, Tallpaul69 said:

Thanks for your positive replies, Guys.

I have kicked off with an NCE Power Cab. Having seen good comments on this controller on my To DCC or not thread, and as my local model shop is a stockist and can give me help and support, it seemed a sensible way to go.

Chipping is not something that I feel confident to try myself, so I am happy to pay the charges to have it done for me.
Collected three chipped locos yesterday. They are a Hornby 08, a Bachmann Pannier and a Hornby Castle. All are fitted with Zimo non sound chips.

These locos were chosen to explore facets of DCC:-
The Castle to compare with my TTS Castle - I have third Castle which might soon get a sound chip. However,  I have received information which says that the HCC Castle(amongst others) was the Airfix 1979 body on a Dapol 1985 Chassis. Thus the Castles are not mechanically the same!
The shunters to compare diesel and steam shunters under DCC. Later a similar pair will get sound chips, again for comparison.
The panier is also non DCC ready, so I get a view of hard wired against socketed chips.

I have now completed the readdressing of the three locos recently chipped, and am pleased to say it was not difficult. They all work fine.
I then got overconfident and decided to try pairing the two shunters in what the NCE manual calls a consist.
This was not difficult, but the problem I have is that I can't work out and the manual doesn't help on how to stop the locos working in a consist and return them to working against their individual addresses.
When I call up the individual addresses and advance the throttle, they just don't move?

Any help on this would be appreciated?

 

I am also off to Ally Pally this weekend to gen up further on the possibilities.

Best regards
Paul

 

 

Good luck with your project.  I'm heading off at dawn o'clock down to the Ally Pally show tomorrow - if you're going to be there I'll watch out for a tall guy named Paul.  Enjoy it.

 

Cheers ... Alan

 

[Pete the Elaner]

14 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

 

Next thing to try is altering the CV3 and 4 on the locos chipped so far to see what adjusting the acceleration/deceleration does for them!

 

I think you're going to have some fun with this. Adjusting these & seeing the results was what made DCC the right choice for me.

 

There is no right or wrong about how you set these 2 variables up. It is a matter of personal preference.

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I think you're going to have some fun with this. Adjusting these & seeing the results was what made DCC the right choice for me.

 

There is no right or wrong about how you set these 2 variables up. It is a matter of personal preference.

This is the begining of setting each loco’s “personality”. I recommend small numbers to begin with, and certainly advise that CV4 be a rather lower number than CV3. Awaiting departure is one thing - seeing your loco still trundling too fast towards stock or buffer stops quite another. 

[Tallpaul69]

Just catching up with things after an enjoyable but tiring day at Ally Pally!

 

Don't know what time Alan had to leave, but 7.20am was quite early enough for me!

 

Being a WR fan, I particularly enjoyed New Kensal Green. Now where did I see that article about smoke generators...…..

 

But mustn't let myself get diverted from the job in hand.

I did allow myself to buy one of Hornby's sound fitted ventilator vans, which I set up on my test track this morning. Most of the sounds are good, but I was a little disappointed with the track for a steam train arriving at a station where the announcements are very 2010s rather than 1960s.

 

Best regards

Paul

[Ron Ron Ron]

On 22/03/2019 at 16:11, Art Dent said:

 

.......You might find this web page by Mark Gurries of interest regarding NCE's implementation of Consisting.

 

According to Mark.........

 

........When it is setup the "NCE Way", there is no comparison to any other DCC system."  Mark's emphasis, not mine.?....

 

 

 

Do note Art, that Mark Gurries is a NCE advocate and his aim is to promote his favourite system.

Being located in the US and with his local choice of systems being limited back at the time of writing, it's quite likely he was comparing NCE with the commonly available American brand alternatives, Digitrax, CVP's EasyDCC and MRC.

 

For the best consisting, the graphically based UI's either have, or have the potential, to easily outclass the old style American legacy systems.

For example, the Ring Engineering RailPro system not only provides one of the easiest methods of consisting, but has automatic, real time adjustable speed matching between the individual decoders in a consist.

No CV's need be interfered with. However that's not a DCC based system

[Alan Kettlewell]

17 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Just catching up with things after an enjoyable but tiring day at Ally Pally!

 

Don't know what time Alan had to leave, but 7.20am was quite early enough for me!

 

Being a WR fan, I particularly enjoyed New Kensal Green. Now where did I see that article about smoke generators...…..

 

But mustn't let myself get diverted from the job in hand.

I did allow myself to buy one of Hornby's sound fitted ventilator vans, which I set up on my test track this morning. Most of the sounds are good, but I was a little disappointed with the track for a steam train arriving at a station where the announcements are very 2010s rather than 1960s.

 

Best regards

Paul

 

I too enjoyed the day - I left the house at 05-30, was on the 06-09 train from Northallerton and arrived at the show about 09-30 just in time for early doors.  Not bad from North Yorkshire and my return ticket for £55 (including my Senior Railcard) was a great deal.

 

At the show I also liked New Kensal Green and the outstanding layout for me was Buntisland the P4 layout by the East of Scotland 4mm Group, modelling an 1883 dock scene of the railways of Fife before the Forth bridge was constructed and after the Tay bridge collapse.  It was also great to see The Bridge at Remagan in the flesh as I've followed it on here since it began - another outstanding model.

 

Cheers … Alan

  

 

[Tallpaul69]

Hi Alan, Ron, Pete, and other contributors to this thread.

 

Have now got back to normal after Ally Pally, although I have not achieved too much on the modelling front this week.

 

Main job started has been to set up a test track in my workshop. Not such a big deal I hear you say, but I did have to rearrange a lot of stuff to give a clear 8ft length. Previously I had everything in a box and set it up on our dining table when I wanted to test something. This got a bit of a bind even though we only use the table when we have visitors!

 

I have still to lay some sidings so I can have several locos out at one time and a small amount of stock.

 

Mentioning stock reminds me that I have been testing the Hornby Sound fitted Vent van that I bought at Ally Pally. I am pleased with it and expect it to be useful in enhancing the effect of sound when I have my layout. Only sound I was a bit disappointed with was the steam train arriving, which unfortunately is accompanied by station announcements that are decidedly 2010s not 1960s ("Stay behind the yellow lines … train approaching....@(!)).

 

I plan to park it somewhere where it is not obvious. The fact that it can play 3 sounds at once is useful.

 

The next testing program will be adjusting sound volumes on my Castle and the Vent Van, but I better finish the test track first!

 

Hope everyone is making progress with their DCC projects, and that you all remembered to alter your workshop/ railway room clocks last night!

 

Best regards

Paul  

[Tallpaul69]

Thought I would update everyone on my progress:-

 

Yesterday I collected my latest items to be Sound Chipped.

One is a Bachmann WR 56xx tank, the other a Dapol class 122 Rail car.

 

The 56xx sounds good, although I think I shall have to increase some of the volumes a bit. 

 

I have yet to find out if its sound is better than my TTS fitted Castle, although I suspect that may have to wait until I have somewhere to let them have a good run. So I may be putting together a circuit of 2nd radius curves as a continuous test track, once I figure out somewhere I can put it and leave it set up. It might be feasible in one corner of my workshop next to my existing long thin test track so that I can move my NEC from powering the existing test track to powering the circuit without too much trouble.

 

I have to say the "play" potential of the sound fitted class 122 is huge!

It is interesting to do a start up routine by switching on the cab lights, slamming the drivers door, starting the engine up, then on with the head and tail lights, off with the cab lights, on with the saloon lights, brakes off, rev the engine, and gently move forward! 

 

Hope you are all progressing with your projects,

 

Best regards

Paul

[Phil S]

6 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

..... I have to say the "play" potential of the sound fitted class 122 is huge!

It is interesting to do a start up routine by switching on the cab lights, slamming the drivers door, starting the engine up, then on with the head and tail lights, off with the cab lights, on with the saloon lights, brakes off, rev the engine, and gently move forward! 

Now you need to match the sound effects with the matching action 8-) .... some years ago, Roco, in their new-year-new -products video had a station with animated Arrival/Departure LED sign board depicting the trains and platforms, and a group of moving people on the platform  .... long before Train-Techs (more compact) platform signs or Massoth's similar G Scale on-board Train animated destination boards  (search on LGB Allegra )

(Alternatives to using Train Tech's platform display is to use small OLED display panels of 1" or less ... and run them from a RaspberryPi or similar / Picaxe)

[Tallpaul69]

14 hours ago, Phil S said:

Now you need to match the sound effects with the matching action 8-) .... some years ago, Roco, in their new-year-new -products video had a station with animated Arrival/Departure LED sign board depicting the trains and platforms, and a group of moving people on the platform  .... long before Train-Techs (more compact) platform signs or Massoth's similar G Scale on-board Train animated destination boards  (search on LGB Allegra )

(Alternatives to using Train Tech's platform display is to use small OLED display panels of 1" or less ... and run them from a RaspberryPi or similar / Picaxe)

That is a good idea, if a little complicated!

At present I can only run items on a 6ft test track, so the above ideas are not possible.

 

I hope today to record a short video of the 122, but as I am just getting started on uploading videos via YouTube, it might be a while before you can view it!

 

Meanwhile, I am trying to link an earlier video of my TTS fitted Castle to this post, which may or may not work!!-

 

Nothing happened, obviously doing something wrong!-back to the drawing board?

 

Cheers

Paul

[tigerburnie]

I was thinking of starting to build the new layout first and get a controller, then run an engine, I am now seeing that might be base over apex. I have noted elsewhere that someone was contemplating a layout on a decorating table, now I have a little used(and I intend it remain so) one that could house a test/programming track. Thanks to this post I shall have a re-think, so after the new roof, the old pasting table may be getting a new lease of life.

[Pete the Elaner]

33 minutes ago, tigerburnie said:

I was thinking of starting to build the new layout first and get a controller, then run an engine, I am now seeing that might be base over apex. I have noted elsewhere that someone was contemplating a layout on a decorating table, now I have a little used(and I intend it remain so) one that could house a test/programming track. Thanks to this post I shall have a re-think, so after the new roof, the old pasting table may be getting a new lease of life.

Good choice. I would definitely recommend starting small.

You will inevitably learn from each layout & don't want to be stuck with poor decisions/methods on a project which is going to take years to complete. It would always be dissatisfying.

[Imustbemadatmyage]

I am going to do the same - ie start small. I have built a baseboard (810 x 405 mm) and laid out a small trial track plan for it. I intend to use dcc control with unifrog points controlled by switches on a mimic panel. The whole is using n gauge code 55 flexitrack. (See my thread on boxfiles and microlayouts).

This will be specifically a “training layout “ (pun intended) so I can make my beginner’s mistakes on a small scale. 

[WIMorrison]

Code 55 is definitely small scale and raises challenges that are nothing to do with DCC

 

i would suggest the you you look at live frogs from the start, especially as you want this to be a learning experience. They will provide much better running for the layout and best gain the knowledge now.

[Harlequin]

End to end test tracks can be a bit limiting for playing with DCC settings.

 

I had a test rig on my dining table for a few months but the constant stop start and inability to get anything up to speed (safely) very quickly became annoying. So I built a small roundy-round and equipped it with a Pi-Sprog so that I can delve into DCC in more detail and without having to worry about locos crashing!

 

(An alternative would be to obtain a rolling road.)

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Harlequin