Swindon Works A Shop

[Chris Chewter]

Those of you who have followed my Tetbury build will know I have a soft spot for modelling real locations.  I enjoy the historic research plus it takes away the uncertainty of whether the layout looks or operates correctly.  I'm not too sure why Swindon works, after all, its been modelled beautifully in 7mm already, however it hasn't been done in 4mm as far as I'm aware.  Also, it'll make a good diorama to put some nice GWR and Br(W) locos to photograph. (Perhaps, I've just visited the McArthur Glen outlet centre too many times whilst the wife goes shopping for shoes!)

 

I was thinking about modelling the track behind the old J shop using the elevations available from the Swindon Borough Councils website, however Bambrick Studios are planning to do this http://bambrickstudio.co.uk. Anyway, having to manually carve the stonework would be a pain, but not insurmountable.  Given that J shop was already planned by someone else, what other aspect should I model?  After all, there should be plenty of locations at Swindon Works that could be modelled.

 

After a bit of studying old photos, and ruling out locations such as the Hooter House (Too few locos there) and the turntable by the Pattern Store (A bit big and the wrong orientation for my liking), I found the following photo on Wikipedia showing the south west corner of the site.  This location gave me the chance to pose several locos together, plus the ability to use A shop itself as a backdrop and scenic break.

 

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:D1052_and_D1009_Swindon_Works.jpg

 

Unfortunately, whilst some of the Swindon Works buildings are still in existence, sadly when BREL sold the site, A-shop was demolished.  I don't know whether this was to sell the land for housing, or whether there was simply no buyer for such a vast bespoke building, but the building is no more than a memory.  Photographs of this massive building only give glimpses of details, probably because no one could actually stand back far enough to photograph the elevations! A shop was truly an enormous structure!

 

A copy of The Great Western at Swindon Works by Alan Peck was obtained for a reasonable price, but whilst some plans and elevations were present, there was no drawings of A-shop. Rileys Heyday of Swindon and its Locomotive and Morrisons Great Western Steam and Swindon Works give some useful photos, but what I really needed was a set of elevations!

 

After speaking to archivists at STEAM, Didcot Railway Centre, and the NRM, I was put onto a lead that the Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre in Chippenham had a massive archive of railway infrastructure plans, building plans and elevations, not only of Swindon Works, but also covering the western region (Including a site plan of Tetbury which I wished I knew was in existence!)  They confirmed that they held a full set of elevations, and an enjoyable morning was spent pouring over plans and elevations in their archive.

 

I obtained permission to photograph the elements from the plans that I wanted to use, although sadly this included a copyright clause preventing me from replicating the photos here.  However I have managed to start translating the elevations I want to use into CAD, with a view that this can be sent to a laser cutter to create a model.

 

 

You'll notice the oddity to the top right gable, where the blue engineering brick is not in the middle of this elevation.  I thought it was a drafting error, but two plans and several photos show this to be correct. 

 

Trying to get the upper gables has turned out to be a real pain.  The draftsman decided not to show the massive glazed expanse, so I've had to use photographs here, which have shown some drafting errors.  I'm still adjusting that bit at present.

 

 

Hopefully, after a bit more CAD work, one day locos can be lined up here once again.  I may adjust the design so it can operate as cameo layout, with locos being extracted from the side door being pulled out into the open, ready to head back into revenue earning service, or as a diorama demonstrating a time when Swindon Works was at its best!

Edited March 16, 2019 by Captainalbino

[37038]

Wow - certainly a bit different to most diorama's!

 

What length is A-Shop, and is your plan scale-length?

[Chris Chewter]

Just to put the sheer size of A-shop into perspective, this aerial photo from Historic England seems to be centred on the building, with the rest of the works sprawling behind. The bit I'm planning to model is the tiny recess to the bottom left hand corner, so it probably only represents 5% of the total building.

 

https://viewfinder.historicengland.org.uk/search/detail.aspx?uid=59988

 

Likewise, on the aerial photo from the Almany website, its only the bottom right hand corner:

 

https://www.alamy.com/great-western-railway-works-swindon-wiltshire-1920-aerial-view-image221500530.html

[BrushType4]

I've got plans I'm working on too!

 

[phil_sutters]

That will certainly make an impressive back drop for your locos! I don't think that any show anything that will be of significance to your project, but Dad's and a couple of his friends' photos taken at Swindon in the 50s & 60s can be seen here - http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/album/1225098/@/page:2:18

[Chris Chewter]

Progress has been a little slow of late.  Work has been a little stressful, so the idea of returning and designing buildings is a little unappealing.  However I made some progress yesterday to sort out the west windows of A shop, which are massive.  Trying to line everything up has been a pain, but i think its there now.  I'll post up some images shortly.

 

Windows are on my mind at the moment.  From a distance, the windows appear to be long oblong panes like this:

 

 

 

However upon closer inspection, they are broken up by intermediate glazing bars like this:

 

 

I was going to get these laser cut, however the intermediate bars are a bit too fine for that.  If laser cut these bars would be 1mm thick.  Because they are so fine, I think these either need to be brass etched or 3d printed, so a bit of research is needed to decide the correct way to model this.  The alternative is to leave them as long rectangular panes in the knowledge that these intermediate bars would be invisible at 4mm scale.

 

Personally, it would annoy me to omit something, but would people notice the small glazing bars being missing?

[Chris Chewter]

Revised end elevation with the main gables corrected. It’s been very fiddly getting to this stage. There are a few inaccuracies, but it looks close enough to me. Now to scale it down to 1:76 and start designing the various laser cutting layers.

 

[Porkscratching]

9 hours ago, Captainalbino said:

Progress has been a little slow of late.  Work has been a little stressful, so the idea of returning and designing buildings is a little unappealing.  However I made some progress yesterday to sort out the west windows of A shop, which are massive.  Trying to line everything up has been a pain, but i think its there now.  I'll post up some images shortly.

 

Windows are on my mind at the moment.  From a distance, the windows appear to be long oblong panes like this:

 

 

 

However upon closer inspection, they are broken up by intermediate glazing bars like this:

 

 

I was going to get these laser cut, however the intermediate bars are a bit too fine for that.  If laser cut these bars would be 1mm thick.  Because they are so fine, I think these either need to be brass etched or 3d printed, so a bit of research is needed to decide the correct way to model this.  The alternative is to leave them as long rectangular panes in the knowledge that these intermediate bars would be invisible at 4mm scale.

 

Personally, it would annoy me to omit something, but would people notice the small glazing bars being missing?

Are these perhaps not just overlapped panels of glass rather than bars, I'm sure I've seen this done in old commercial or factory type buildings....

[Chris Chewter]

I think you’re right. The answer seems to be on the old Q shop, now the McArthur Glen food court. Looks like I need to get busy with the delete button.

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Captainalbino

[BrushType4]

13 hours ago, Captainalbino said:

Progress has been a little slow of late.  Work has been a little stressful, so the idea of returning and designing buildings is a little unappealing.  However I made some progress yesterday to sort out the west windows of A shop, which are massive.  Trying to line everything up has been a pain, but i think its there now.  I'll post up some images shortly.

 

Windows are on my mind at the moment.  From a distance, the windows appear to be long oblong panes like this:

 

 

 

However upon closer inspection, they are broken up by intermediate glazing bars like this:

 

 

I was going to get these laser cut, however the intermediate bars are a bit too fine for that.  If laser cut these bars would be 1mm thick.  Because they are so fine, I think these either need to be brass etched or 3d printed, so a bit of research is needed to decide the correct way to model this.  The alternative is to leave them as long rectangular panes in the knowledge that these intermediate bars would be invisible at 4mm scale.

 

Personally, it would annoy me to omit something, but would people notice the small glazing bars being missing?

I'm pretty sure this is just overlapping glass. You could laser a line in the glazing material to give the same effect?

 

Just checking, what do you mean by laser cut bars would be 1mm thick?

[Porkscratching]

I would just overlap very thin glazing material just like the prototype...

The more I think about it, I'm sure there's a place near me that's still got some glass panes done like this....

 

[Chris Chewter]

19 hours ago, BrushType4 said:

Just checking, what do you mean by laser cut bars would be 1mm thick?

 

When I last ventured into laser cutting, the windows were produced on an inner layer of 1.5mm ply. Apparently that works best by leaving 1mm between cut lines, but that would mean the window glazing bars would be too thick. I asked this to be reduced to 0.25mm which was just about workable.

 

[JamesGWR101]

Being a GWR fan (as my username suggests), I look forward to seeing this layout come together. What is the era of the layout? Is it during the 'big four', BR or BR blue?

[BrushType4]

22 hours ago, Porkscratching said:

I would just overlap very thin glazing material just like the prototype...

The more I think about it, I'm sure there's a place near me that's still got some glass panes done like this....

 

How would you fix these? Every time I get glue near glazing, it goes wrong.

[BrushType4]

3 hours ago, Captainalbino said:

 

When I last ventured into laser cutting, the windows were produced on an inner layer of 1.5mm ply. Apparently that works best by leaving 1mm between cut lines, but that would mean the window glazing bars would be too thick. I asked this to be reduced to 0.25mm which was just about workable.

 

1mm in 1.5mm ply makes sense, but 0.25mm in 1.5mm ply must be near impossible. Respect to who can do that successfully. 

 

Nice cottages by the way.

[Porkscratching]

20 minutes ago, BrushType4 said:

How would you fix these? Every time I get glue near glazing, it goes wrong.

 

Obviously a bit fiddly in scale, I'd probably attempt to trap the panes with a tiny plasticard retaining edge strip behind them, like a real window, this could be glued away from 'glass' side avoiding getting it on the panes. ( the panes could be held together with a little masking tape whilst doing the framing)

That said folk have used pva glues to flush glaze locos etc without messing up the glass, I've not tried it myself so can't give an experienced opinion on pva!

[dibber25]

I produced etched brass models of those glazed gable ends and the window frames in 4mm:1ft scale for a Model Rail magazine project about 15 years ago - I still have a few of the etchings somewhere. The model was effectively a 'OO' version of the well-known 'O' gauge model - we even fiddled around photographing it with mirrors like the 'O' version. From memory, it had part of the traverser and one or two bays of A Shop itself.

It was displayed at one of the model events at STEAM and I think it was eventually sold, so it may still exist.

A Shop, when built, was the largest industrial building under one roof, in Europe, and its total area was 11acres. My friend Keith Willows worked in construction and knew the guys who demolished A Shop. I have one of the GWR Storm Water manhole covers which Keith had converted into a (very heavy!) patio table. (CJL)

[Chris Chewter]

Progress has been a bit slow on this project. 

 

I've now relented and put a version of CAD onto my home computer, as getting the time during lunch breaks or staying late after work to make the alterations just wasn't happening.  In addition, knowing that a number of people have or are working on similar projects has taken the shine off a bit, but I guess there's nothing new under the sun!

 

Anyway, following earlier comments confirming the shape of the windows, I've made a few adjustments.  The next stage is to scale it down and make a card mock up to check that the model is a manageable size.

 

[Chris Chewter]

Card mock-up made.  Unfortunately I ran out of time to get a roof on it, but it gives a good idea on its size.

 

 

I've used the glazed elevation to A-shop as the edge of the scene.  I think any further and the diorama gets a bit too big.

 

 

Hopefully soon the King will have a slightly nicer surroundings than card and paper together with the slight whiff of spray mount!

 

 

Now to do a few checks on scale dimensions before creating the laser cutting plans.

[Chris Chewter]

Another hastily posed photo using some dusty locos off my display shelf.

 

I haven’t measured the diorama, but you can get two locos end to end, so I think it’s 2.5 ft long.

 

[RookmanGold]

Just stumbled on your great project... :)

 

I also commenced a Swindon Works "A" Shop project in O gauge ... just thought I'd share a few images to show you progress.... we both chose South West corner... but you are a little further West than me... and I incorporated the Weigh House (at least the end). Still a long way to go... My desire to create it comes from when I used to visit the works in the 80s to view the scrap lines... and the A shop always blew me away... so beautiful.

 

 

[BrushType4]

That looks great. I got to my sizes by counting the bricks. I am going to get actual copies of the plans later this month, so it will be interesting to see how close or not I am.

 

 

[Chris Chewter]

I had pretty much shelved this project. I decided that laser cutting on this size is going to be far too expensive.

I’ve been modelling in card recently on the cake box challenge plus seeing the results of card modelling on Sydney Gardens at Warley, I think the only way to get this project off the ground is to change the material.
 

My main issue with card is that it doesn’t give the 3D appearance and appears flat no matter what photo-realistic print goes over the top, however my pocket doesn’t really allow me to proceed with much else. Let’s see if I can get this project moving again.

[6990WitherslackHall]

Swindon is one of three of my favourite GWR engine sheds (Old Oak Common and Didcot being the other two) and, being a GWR/BR western region fan, I like where this is going.

 Laser cutting is pretty expensive and its tricky to get your hands on one. would a modified Metcalfe kit do the job?

[Chris Chewter]

My last venture into laser cutting cost about £100. That was for a cottage earlier in this thread. I dread to think the cost for this project!

 

Ive got the area I’m modelling in CAD, so to turn it into a card model isn’t a big issue. My current attempt at card modelling can be found under the cake box challenge.