transferman Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Hi all, I have just purchased on of the above point motor to try it out.........it doesn't do the job!!! Whilst not mechanically connected to anything the point motor operates perfectly. As soon as a load is put on it, i.e. connected to the points then it seems not to have enough umph to do the job. I am trying it on a double slip. Has anyone else experienced such problems? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I have two of these and they work without problems with plenty of "umph". If the point motor works when not connected to the points it tends to suggest a mechanical issue with the points or the motor is not aligned properly with the points. Do the points move easily when operated by hand? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
transferman Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 The points move quite freely by hand and I have tried many different allignments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold imt Posted March 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2019 I have a set of these for my fiddle yard. MIne work beautifully NOW - but were pigs to get aligned on the points. The point bars worked fine the point motors worked fine - but together they wouldn't. I found that the point motor throw was NOT straight - it was (IIRC) up and across (or maybe the other way! ) and the tie bars didn't run straight when pushed/pulled either. Sometimes they were fighting each other. EVENTUALLY I managed to get them fixed (my wife closed all doors between her studio and my railway room it got so loud!). Since then they have been 100% reliable. Good luck .........! And don't kick the pets, the kids or er indoors! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Used a number in a fiddle yard without major problem, wonder if their is a duff batch on the market. The only issue I found it was necessary, having used Bachmanns track bed, to mount the motor on a piece of wood the thickness of the track bed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
73c Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Can I ask what your using to operate the motor with? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold imt Posted March 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2019 I don't have MAJOR problems either - and I don't think there is a "bad batch" or anything like it. These are small mechanical things which have a particular movement. If you look at them with the power plug end down, the throw at the top when operated manually is slightly up and left (the cam moves up and right). I cannot see inside and don't intend to take one to pieces but I guess there are cranks in there to change movement of the (two?) in-line solenoid(s) from up/down to left/right. Anyway - the throw ends up left and slightly up. There is quite a bit of play, which fools you into thinking it should just go together with a point and work. However, unless the motor and the tie bar are aligned so that this results in an effectively straight motion the movement can jam or not travel the full width. Believe me it happens with Peco Setrack points. I use Train-Tech PC2s (4 point DCC controller) to drive them from my DCC accessory bus - there isn't a power problem. I was not suggesting that they don't work, or that they are faulty - just agreeing that, for me anyway (and with the OP), they are tricky to get to optimal fitting. Thereafter they are faultless - 18 months reliable running and no sign of problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted March 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2019 10 hours ago, 73c said: Can I ask what your using to operate the motor with? Agreed, I suspect the control voltage is slightly low and if a minute misalignment, then it won't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
transferman Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 I am using an old Gaugemaster Series E controller which is poking out 18v. AC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 4 hours ago, transferman said: I am using an old Gaugemaster Series E controller which is poking out 18v. AC That may be the problem if you are applying the ac direct and not using a CDU. As imt has pointed out above their is a bit of mechanical activity that probably needs a kick of current a CDU provides. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold imt Posted March 18, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2019 CDU is an interesting point (pun not intended). The Train-Tech PC2 has that built in so I cannot comment how things might go without it. The PC2 is only any use if you are going DCC, but there are many CDUs on the market for DC systems. The presence of the CDU made no difference to the geometry of getting a straight thrust with the tiebar. That was still trial and error and took varing amounts of time. My only caveat was that my points were already fixed down. On one I needed to put a piece of 2 thou Plasticard under the end of the tiebar to make sure the "bobble" on the end din't slip under the drive bar of the point motor. As I say - all works fine when set up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2019 There is a similar motor available from Gaugemaster. I use both with CDU drive and they are fine but need careful positioning and I have Code 75 points. The Gaugemaster versions have a plug in triple wire set that makes life easier. I use simple H & M 16V AC input from an old Controller and two H & M Flash Units (very old but damn good). Before anyone has a go about old Controllers and old wiring etc then the units were all checked by a damn fine electrician. What I did find though was that perfect alignment of both types is critical including height and distance, as well as angle of attack. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold imt Posted April 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said: What I did find though was that perfect alignment of both types is critical including height and distance, as well as angle of attack. Sorry to hear that I was not the only one to experience the problems - as I tried to reassure transferman. But after the frustration I found they were totally reliable. And you? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2019 Absolutely, but I have found the Gaugemaster ones to be more sensitive to the power supply and do need a decent CDU included. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted April 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said: Absolutely, but I have found the Gaugemaster ones to be more sensitive to the power supply and do need a decent CDU included. Phil Any CDU needs a suitable power supply to it. If the voltage is too low, you'll get intermittent throwing of points, too high and you might have to check the voltage rating of the capacitor(s). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, kevinlms said: Any CDU needs a suitable power supply to it. If the voltage is too low, you'll get intermittent throwing of points, too high and you might have to check the voltage rating of the capacitor(s). I'm a bit concerned that the DCC Concepts unit I am using has developed a couple of duff CDUs on it (there are eight outlets). It is driven off 18V from a PCU unit and six of the outlets work fine with one being the furthest away from the unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 15 hours ago, Mallard60022 said: There is a similar motor available from Gaugemaster. AIUI the Gaugemaster one is designed to be fixed to the baseboard adjacent to the point - it can't be clipped to the mounting holes on the point's trackbase like the PL-11 can. In my limited experience (one point with a PL-11) that seems to maintain the necessary alignment pretty well. (In saying this I'm thinking of OO/HO Setrack and Streamline - not including bullhead which doesn't have the mounting holes. The OP doesn't seem to have specified which manufacturer's product he's trying to use the PL-11 with, though.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted April 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said: I'm a bit concerned that the DCC Concepts unit I am using has developed a couple of duff CDUs on it (there are eight outlets). It is driven off 18V from a PCU unit and six of the outlets work fine with one being the furthest away from the unit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Note the top photo, which clearly shows the problem. It is common for leakage at the bottom as well. The easiest symptom for the latter, is that the capacitor is at a tilted angle because of the pressure from the leakage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, kevinlms said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague Note the top photo, which clearly shows the problem. It is common for leakage at the bottom as well. The easiest symptom for the latter, is that the capacitor is at a tilted angle because of the pressure from the leakage. Oh ouch! I might contact DCC Concepts and ask them to test the Unit for me! It is this one but the older design without the cover: http://www.dccconcepts.com/product/cobalt-ip-dcc-decoder-sx-solenoid-motor-drive-8-way-output-2/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted April 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said: Oh ouch! I might contact DCC Concepts and ask them to test the Unit for me! It is this one but the older design without the cover: http://www.dccconcepts.com/product/cobalt-ip-dcc-decoder-sx-solenoid-motor-drive-8-way-output-2/ No idea how easily the cover comes off, but if it does, you should be able to tell if that's the problem or something else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2019 Just now, kevinlms said: No idea how easily the cover comes off, but if it does, you should be able to tell if that's the problem or something else. Don't have a cover on mine; older release obviously. However I can now go and look for the 'signs'; thanks matey. Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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