Livery of 1938 stock

[F2Andy]

Hi, I have purchased a 3D printed kit of 1938 stock in N gauge, but I am not sure what colour it should be for ca. 1980. I know it is red, but what shade? I am partially colour blind, so would appreciate any advice. Also, the roof colour. And if anyone knows of any suitable transfers that would be great too!

[d00m]

Extra heavy overhaul units were painted 'bus red', although personally I think it was a bit darker. The white roundels may be available from radley models, they are not listed but give them a ring they can probably sort you out. If not you can sometimes find them on the popular auction site.

[Jeff Smith]

Bus red replaced tube red sometime after WW2.  If in fact they were still red in the 1980s they would have been bus red.  Tube red was a couple of shades darker.  I think only the Northern Line were running 1938 stock in the eighties.

[d00m]

Roof colour grey (usually filthy). On the Bakerloo, they were done in the colour of the heritage set at Acton. 

[Nearholmer]

Nice photo here https://www.flickr.com/photos/fortune13/5761053257

 

If you look closely, you can see a notice in the window saying "last day of red trains on the Underground".for the 

 

The Northern Line ones were transferred from the Bakerloo when that ceased to use 38TS, only five of them, and they were heavily overhauled prior to the move, which I think might have been in 1986. I can't recall how the interiors were finished on the Bakerloo, I have a suspicion the draught-screens were grey, but for return to the Northern the interiors were made as original as was practicable, and riding in them was certainly a retro-fest, although how much it cheered people up I'm not sure, because the Northern was having a very bad period indeed at that time.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Jeff Smith]

I have a copy of this book https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-1938-Tube-Stock-by-Connor-Piers-Hardback-Book-The-Cheap-Fast-Free-Post/303019282769?epid=91754356&redirect=mobile but unfortunately it is in the USA and I'm currently visiting the UK....However there is a good picture in it of the fronts of two trains side by side, one in tube red the other in bus red.  There's not as much difference as you might think.

[SRman]

58 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Bus red replaced tube red sometime after WW2.  If in fact they were still red in the 1980s they would have been bus red.  Tube red was a couple of shades darker.  I think only the Northern Line were running 1938 stock in the eighties.

 

 

Bus red was used from 1973/4. Before that it was the darker train red. Even so, trains of mixed colours could be seen for quite a while after 1973, where the contrast between the two reds was more obvious. this applied to the 1938 tube stock and the CO/CP stocks on the 'surface' lines.

[Dava]

Two 1938 stock sets were restored to original livery as the 'Starlight Express' train in the mid-1980s for special trains. One set is preserved at the LT Museum at Acton depot and plenty of images can be found on Google by a search for 'london transport museum acton open day'. The red is noticeably darker and the roof is in matt red not grey. https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/vehicles/item/1991-210?&apiurl=aHR0cHM6Ly9hcGkubHRtdXNldW0uY28udWsvdmVoaWNsZXM/c2hvcnQ9MSZza2lwPTAmbGltaXQ9NDg=&searchpage=

[d00m]

Starlight express: car numbers 20291-012371-10291+10012-012256-12027-11012 with light grey roof left stonebridge park depot (Bakerloo) 5th December 1985 to Ruislip depot for storage. That unit and four other 38 units were then given a further heavy over haul and were transfered to Northern line in September 1986. Even the farewell railtour had grey roof. final withdrawl 1988.

Edited March 18, 2019 by d00m
missed a bit

[Nearholmer]

After which, they retired to the isle of Wight.

[F2Andy]

Thanks. I would have guessed it was darker than bus red, but I will see how that goes.

[daveyb]

On 20/03/2019 at 07:52, F2Andy said:

Thanks. I would have guessed it was darker than bus red, but I will see how that goes.

Proper LT bus red seemed richer than modern TfL red and was much stronger than National Bus red (which was almost orange). Properly applied to an RM or RT at Aldenham, it would have been enameled. I'm sure the trains weren't.

 

I remember them with mid grey rooves and green interior paint. The 62 stock was grey inside and the moquette was grey not red/Brown...  

[SRman]

Originally the trains had bauxite/red oxide coloured roofs, but, as one author put it: the roofs soon became tunnel coloured! I tend to use Humbrol #66 (olive drab, actually a dark slaty grey) for all of my red underground models' roofs.