Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 In a fit of incompetence, I installed my NCE powercab at one end of my layout such that the tethered lead is not long enough to reach my goods yard. Rather than install a second powercab adjacent to the goods yard, I thought I might have a go with the wireless set up, RB02 base unit and the Cab06ER handset. Has anyone used this system? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) You might like to try a bespoke lead like I have had done. Takes a tiny bit of power off and can be a pain when it wraps around yer legs but they do work. If only I could remember who did them for me....might have been Digitrains but not sure. P Edited March 18, 2019 by Mallard60022 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danemouth Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said: You might like to try a bespoke lead like I have had done. Takes a tiny bit of power off and can be a pain when it wraps around yer legs but they do work. If only I could remember who did them for me....might have been Digitrains but not sure. P 3 metre 6 wire lead for a Powercab https://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-105230/curly-cable-nce-power-cab-3m-6-wire.htm Works well on my layout and only £12 Usual disclaimer, Dave 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Alternatively, install an additional socket, which would be a UTP, and add a second cab, which would be a ProCab, or one of the simpler cabs. Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2019 52 minutes ago, Danemouth said: 3 metre 6 wire lead for a Powercab https://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-105230/curly-cable-nce-power-cab-3m-6-wire.htm Works well on my layout and only £12 Usual disclaimer, Dave Not quite the same as mine Dave. Mine is a flat lead, made to a length I requested 5 metres and was only £6.Not from DCC Supplies and I still can't find the supplier that does them. Doh! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 18, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2019 Here we go, but I don't think it was DCC Concepts that did mine. http://www.dccconcepts.com/product/nce-custom-made-flat-cables-rj12-type/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold traction Posted March 19, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2019 15 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said: In a fit of incompetence, I installed my NCE powercab at one end of my layout such that the tethered lead is not long enough to reach my goods yard. Rather than install a second powercab adjacent to the goods yard, I thought I might have a go with the wireless set up, RB02 base unit and the Cab06ER handset. Has anyone used this system? I didn't think the NCE wireless system had the clearance to be used in the UK, that's if you're in the UK? I've not used it myself but seen it used and it looks to work perfectly well so you shouldn't have any problems. When you say you might have a go with the wireless set up does that mean you've yet to buy it? All of the other responses are for fitting an extra panel and RJ12 connector cable so you can plug in an extra cab which would be cheaper if you've yet to buy the wireless equipment. Cheers Ian 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I heard a while back that the NCE wireless system was NOT approved for UK use and that at that time NCE did not intend to go through that process as it involved redesign using different frequencies and a long approval process, both expensive!! The situation may have changed since, but if you are UK or indeed EU based then a check would be advisable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 5 hours ago, traction said: I didn't think the NCE wireless system had the clearance to be used in the UK, that's if you're in the UK? 4 hours ago, johnb said: I heard a while back that the NCE wireless system was NOT approved for UK use and that at that time NCE did not intend to go through that process as it involved redesign using different frequencies and a long approval process, both expensive!! The situation may have changed since, but if you are UK or indeed EU based then a check would be advisable. I was also under the impression that NCE were not prepared to offer a EU/UK approved version of their wireless system and handsets. That may have changed, as I see that Digitrains and DCC Concepts both have the PowerPro Wireless system, RB02 wireless base station and ProCab-R handset as available on their websites, with no warnings about any approval issues. Does anybody know the current status for EU/UK approval? . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 19/03/2019 at 12:39, Ron Ron Ron said: I was also under the impression that NCE were not prepared to offer a EU/UK approved version of their wireless system and handsets. That may have changed, as I see that Digitrains and DCC Concepts both have the PowerPro Wireless system, RB02 wireless base station and ProCab-R handset as available on their websites, with no warnings about any approval issues. Does anybody know the current status for EU/UK approval? . Illegal to use in UK and EU: wrong frequencies, so a redesign of the radio hardware to make it legal. (Unlike some other maker's stuff, where its a paperwork testing and approvals matter, the frequencies and likely power outputs are correct). I can't see any situation where Brexit would change that - the use of radio spectrum is in UK legislation. Its also illegal for companies to import and sell them, but some model railway retailers don't seem bothered with compliance with the CE regulations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Nigel, The frequencies are not 'wrong' - the US uses a smaller frequency range than used in Europe and the US uses 11 channels whereas in Europe we use 13. You will see in Table 3.2 of this document that the US is a subset, not incorrect or different frequencies for 802.11 and that is what is being used. https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/solutions/Enterprise/Mobility/emob41dg/emob41dg-wrapper/ch3_WLAN.pdf I also recall that it is unlawful for companies to sell unapproved equipment but it is unlawful for you to operate such equipment as an individual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Iain, you're quoting the WiFi frequencies, in the 2.4Ghz band. NCE wireless is in the 900Mhz band. Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Nigel, I think you will find that the 900mhz band is allocated in the same ways for Regions 1, 2 and 3 ;) Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Ofcom's table of spectrum use, and a fair way down to find 900Mhz: http://static.ofcom.org.uk/static/spectrum/fat.html And then digging into the low-power use stuff: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0028/84970/ir-2030.pdf Where I haven't found an application for model use in the 900Mhz area. It is possible that I'm mis-reading Ofcom's information. However, spectrum could be said to be irrelevant, as the lack of CE testing is an issue for any company importing and distributing: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/664824/radio-equipment-regulations-2017-guidance.pdf - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Nigel - that is what I said originally, it is unlawful to sell the equipment, The ISM bands used in all the countries are substantially the same which is why the equipment will work in EU - there is more of an issue taking stuff from EU to US as much of it won’t work due to the reduced channel availability. This issue has been known about for many years and Americans set their routers to be EU based to overcome the restrictions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 So even though it is available for sale from DCCconcepts, I should not buy it as it is illegal to sell in the UK? And if I did buy it, Mr Plod might pay me a visit as it's illegal to use? I must say, I'm rather confused by this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ELTEL Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2019 I think you may find out it is not illegal to sell it , and it is more likely that it is illegal to use it. Very similar to the laws of CB radios in there infancy Eltel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 I can't recall the last time I saw a copper on the beat, burglaries in my town are not investigated, and whenever I walk into town I am assailed by the stink of cannabis. So perhaps I should just buy it and commit a crime in the privacy of my own shed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 It wouldn’t be the Police prosecuting anyone, it would be OfCom who have the powers to prosecute misuse of the radio spectrum however as there is exemption for radio control models I suggest that this would provide an easy argument for the defence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelG Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 18/03/2019 at 16:19, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said: In a fit of incompetence, I installed my NCE powercab at one end of my layout such that the tethered lead is not long enough to reach my goods yard. Rather than install a second powercab adjacent to the goods yard, I thought I might have a go with the wireless set up, RB02 base unit and the Cab06ER handset. Has anyone used this system? I had a similar problem but the wireless NCE seemed excessively expensive so instead I installed a number of NCE cab bus connection panels around the layout and wired them up to the cab bus using RJ12s. I can walk around, unplug the cab from one panel but plug into another panel without interupting power or running trains. I also have long coiled cables for my CAB so I can move quite a distance from a panel with the cab. I since bought a second Pro Cab on eBay and leave that plugged in at the other end of the layout which was less expensive than going wireless and is hand when I have visitors (ie two cabs). Hope this helps. You can use iPhones running WiThrottle app as a wireless throttle with NCE but only via a PC running JMRI connected to the NCE controller via RS232 port or USB port (clunky and touch screen throttle has its limitations). https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/nce-connection-panel-for-5amp-systems-rj12-type/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelG Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 19/03/2019 at 12:39, Ron Ron Ron said: Does anybody know the current status for EU/UK approval? . Does approval really matter? All that matters is does it work. Who is ever going to enter your private home to check, and all the gear is buyable from US web sites or eBay. I found the cost of their wireless solution excessive so didn't bother but had the price been ok I'd have 'winged it' as regards approval. Its not as if we are going to be arrested and dragged away in handcuffs for driving our choo-choo trains using an industry standard wireless technology where the manufacturer hasn't bothered with the additional paper work for UK or EU approval or CE mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelG Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said: So even though it is available for sale from DCCconcepts, I should not buy it as it is illegal to sell in the UK? And if I did buy it, Mr Plod might pay me a visit as it's illegal to use? I must say, I'm rather confused by this. In the part of the world where I live nobody plays a blind bit of attention to trivial regulations and just ignore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 48 minutes ago, NoelG said: I had a similar problem but the wireless NCE seemed excessively expensive so instead I installed a number of NCE cab bus connection panels around the layout and wired them up to the cab bus using RJ12s. I can walk around, unplug the cab from one panel but plug into another panel without interupting power or running trains. ............ Are you using a PowerPro system, or PowerCab with a SmartBooster? The OP is using a PowerCab and unless a SmartBooster is used, or the PowerCab handset is being used purely as a cab/throttle on a PowerPro system, you can’t unplug it without losing power to the track, The command station and booster are located in the PowerCab handset, therefore unplugging results in a dead layout. Ron 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 13 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said: So even though it is available for sale from DCCconcepts, I should not buy it as it is illegal to sell in the UK? And if I did buy it, Mr Plod might pay me a visit as it's illegal to use? I must say, I'm rather confused by this. The importer and distributer are breaking the laws around CE marking and lack of approvals: a matter primarily for Trading Standards. Consequences for them are fines and confiscation/destruction of the offending items. The user may be breaking the laws around use of radio spectrum, a matter primarily for Ofcom. Ignoring the moral side of using stuff which isn't legal, in practical terms, for a home user, its not an issue for most. There are vast numbers of devices in use which don't meet the Ofcom rules on radio spectrum, and investigations (and prosecutions) for low-power units in domestic use don't happen. - Nigel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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