Andymsa Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Hi, as anyone heard ears of this. I have found some YouTube videos showing the technique, it first appeared in the January 78 model railroader magazine. I have been looking on how to build the items needed but been unsuccessful so far, so I thought I would turn to the forum for input, thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Showing a link to the You Tube videos may help us understand what you are asking. The only model vacuum track ballasting I am aware of is using a vacuum cleaner to remove surplus ballast after the glue has set. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) Here is a link to what I'm talking about Edited March 21, 2019 by Andymsa 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) Well, I looked it up but can’t see any benefit....... You beat me to it.... Edited March 21, 2019 by gordon s 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Don't see the point of it. AFAIC a Proses/Green Scene ballast spreader thingy and a careful brushing makes a better job. Probably as quick too! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 This may not be to everyone's taste, I just want to try it out with over 300 yards of track to ballast any method that might speed this process up is worth a look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Gordon A said: The only model vacuum track ballasting I am aware of is using a vacuum cleaner to remove surplus ballast after the glue has set. That's basically what the video shows. The one thing that may be regarded as a refinement over just using a vacuum is the collector device between the vacuum and the suction head. It's the same idea as the device used by entomologists for collecting insects, commonly called a "pooter" in that trade. It's way to suck things up in to an intermediate collecting vessel without them then getting sucked on through in to the suction device (which, in the case of a pooter, is usually the operator's mouth!) I suppose if you tend to be a bit liberal with your ballast spreading then it could be helpful in collecting the excess in a clean container for re-use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Just as easy to put a handkerchief over the end of the vacuum hose. Suck up the ballast and once the 'pocket' in the handkerchief is full, switch off and tip out the ballast.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, ejstubbs said: That's basically what the video shows. The one thing that may be regarded as a refinement over just using a vacuum is the collector device between the vacuum and the suction head. It's the same idea as the device used by entomologists for collecting insects, commonly called a "pooter" in that trade. It's way to suck things up in to an intermediate collecting vessel without them then getting sucked on through in to the suction device (which, in the case of a pooter, is usually the operator's mouth!) I suppose if you tend to be a bit liberal with your ballast spreading then it could be helpful in collecting the excess in a clean container for re-use. This is further from the truth what the video shows. The ballast is applied dry then vacuumed then glue applied. What the process shows is that there is no stray ballast to be cleaned off the sleepers after being applied dry before glueing, which is a time consuming job. Edited March 21, 2019 by Andymsa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 Well I guess as I not got many replies that not much is known, it was worth a try I guess Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Torper Posted March 22, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2019 If the glue isn't applied until after the vacuuming, why is none of the ballast between the sleepers being sucked up during the vacuuming process? DT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 Because there is no direct connection between the suction device and Hoover, also there is a method of control to adjust suction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Andymsa said: Because there is no direct connection between the suction device and Hoover Yes there is. The pipe from the vacuum goes in to a sealed jar and the pipe to the suction head comes out. Assuming that the joints between pipes & jar are adequately sealed then there is a direct connection. The fact that it goes through a gravity trap (the jar) doesn't reduce the airflow at all. 45 minutes ago, Andymsa said: there is a method of control to adjust suction. Correct, that's the adjustable clamp on the air bleed hose coming off the T connector on the vacuum side of the collection jar. The process relies on getting the amount of suction at the suction head adjusted so as to pick up just the right amount of excess ballast when the suction head is at the engineered-in distance from the sleeper base. The difference between just the right amount of suction and too much is probably quite small (I suspect the guy doing the demonstration in the first video has it set a little conservatively, hence why he has to make multiple passes to get all the excess ballast vacuumed away. It does appear to work, after a fashion, and I'm sure if you went to the effort of building your own then you'd also be prepared to put the time in to getting it tuned correctly. But the fact that it's so little known about more than 40 years after it was first written up does suggest that people might not have found it to be much of a time saver. Edited March 22, 2019 by ejstubbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, ejstubbs said: Yes there is. The pipe from the vacuum goes in to a sealed jar and the pipe to the suction head comes out. Assuming that the joints between pipes & jar are adequately sealed then there is a direct connection. The fact that it goes through a gravity trap (the jar) doesn't reduce the airflow at all. I was not referring to airflow, the question was why the ballast was not sucked up as well. my original question was to information on the process, whether it is a viable process at present I'm not sure. I'm going to try a build it. Sometimes the old methods just work, but even with the multiple passes it's much quicker than picking off individual pieces off the sleepers or bits laying against the inside rail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 49 minutes ago, Andymsa said: I was not referring to airflow, the question was why the ballast was not sucked up as well. The question was: "why is none of the ballast between the sleepers being sucked up during the vacuuming process?" To which the answer is: because the strength of the suction is tuned so as to only suck up the ballast above the sleepers. The question was not: "why does none of the ballast that is sucked up go in to the vacuum?" in response to which reference to the capture jar would have been valid. 53 minutes ago, Andymsa said: even with the multiple passes it's much quicker than picking off individual pieces off the sleepers or bits laying against the inside rail. Always assuming that it does reliably pick up the ballast as selectively as the video seems to suggest. I would have my doubts, but I'd definitely be interested to see your results if you do build one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR_NZ Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 On 23/03/2019 at 06:41, ejstubbs said: The question was: "why is none of the ballast between the sleepers being sucked up during the vacuuming process?" To which the answer is: because the strength of the suction is tuned so as to only suck up the ballast above the sleepers. The question was not: "why does none of the ballast that is sucked up go in to the vacuum?" in response to which reference to the capture jar would have been valid. Always assuming that it does reliably pick up the ballast as selectively as the video seems to suggest. I would have my doubts, but I'd definitely be interested to see your results if you do build one. I would also like to see the results - I have been considering using this method since I found it on YouTube. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 I'm going to build this once I get some tubing to make the T piece that you run along the track. I will try to do a video of the process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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