RMweb Gold Right Away Posted March 22, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2019 Now that the Hornby A1 and A1x locomotives are with us and the Rails/Dapol models are imminent would it not be prudent for Southern modellers to expect the manufacturers to perhaps consider another LBSCR engine of William Stroudley, namely the dainty D class 0-4-2 tanks. Numerically they were the largest class of the "Brighton" with, I believe, one actually making it into very early '50s (uncertain of the livery carried by this example). Appreciated, we have been somewhat spoilt with Southern releases over recent years, however it's sometimes rather pleasant to ponder future offerings. Oh, and who said another "Gladstone"? 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I think we need some LBSCR coaches for these locomotives to pull as well. 4 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big James Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) We’ve got the the E1 to look forward to. I have to say that any new SR tank engine is welcome as in my opinion they are the prettiest engines the SR possessed. Big James Edited March 23, 2019 by Big James 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2019 This is the era of the bijou tank loco, with multiple examples from several manufacturers being successful both as models and in sales terms. I suspect they do rather better for unit profit than bigger locos, where bigger prices limit the market, too. When - “if” is simply not likely - the Model Rail E1 becomes another success, the opportunity is there for MR to consider the D1 tank, with its essentially similar shell. But 0-4-2 chassis are notoriously tough to get right, as others have found. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 I seem to recall that when Model Rail had the survey for what models people wanted there was another LBSC tank engine in it and it didn't score very high. An E2 rings a bell? Not the Terrier as that was shelved as they found out someone else was making one and they went for the E1 instead. There was also the possibility of an E1R which also didn't poll very highly. I would have bought an E1R over an E1. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Right Away Posted March 25, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 23/03/2019 at 09:31, Oldddudders said: 0-4-2 chassis are notoriously tough to get right, as others have found. Strongly agree. I can well recall the Airfix 14xx back in the '70s and thinking at the time "what an attractive little engine" only to find that it had great difficulty in collecting "juice". I believe that model had traction tyres which didn't help! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 23/03/2019 at 18:42, Steamport Southport said: I seem to recall that when Model Rail had the survey for what models people wanted there was another LBSC tank engine in it and it didn't score very high. An E2 rings a bell? Not the Terrier as that was shelved as they found out someone else was making one and they went for the E1 instead. There was also the possibility of an E1R which also didn't poll very highly. I would have bought an E1R over an E1. Jason An E1R would fit very well in my layout, but while they were obviously a success I cannot find them attractive, especially compared to their elegant origins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Very much looking forward to the E1! Would 100% buy a D1. And while it's a Marsh, an I3 would be useful to me, seen a few photographs of them on the route I base my layout on I know 00 Works did one but that's long gone? and manufacturers can be unpredictable... Definitely need more pre grouping Southern stock for sure! There are ex LSWR(?) 3 sets that appear in photos on the above route quite a lot. A likely choice from Hornby perhaps? They like a bit of LSWR... *Photos should all be links to where I found them* 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 23/03/2019 at 18:42, Steamport Southport said: I seem to recall that when Model Rail had the survey for what models people wanted there was another LBSC tank engine in it and it didn't score very high. An E2 rings a bell? E2 ? ...... they'd sell zillions of them - if they painted them blue an' put a silly face on the front. Seriously (?) the E2 was too small in number and not as 'cute' as the 'P' ............ the 'D1' is probably the best bet for someone to do - but what about the 'D3' ? - at least one lasted long enough to get 'BRITISH AIRWAYS' on its tanks ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Wickham Green said: E2 ? ...... they'd sell zillions of them - if they painted them blue an' put a silly face on the front. Seriously (?) the E2 was too small in number and not as 'cute' as the 'P' ............ the 'D1' is probably the best bet for someone to do - but what about the 'D3' ? - at least one lasted long enough to get 'BRITISH AIRWAYS' on its tanks ! The E2 was the least attractive of the Brighton tanks. Only its wheelbase seems to have made it attractive to manufacturers - Trix, then Hornby. It had none of the grace of Stroudley and Billinton locos. And the two sub-classes - long and short side-tanks, 5 of each - make it of little interest. Convincing model railways show the everyday, not the oddballs. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 23/03/2019 at 09:31, Oldddudders said: ...But 0-4-2 chassis are notoriously tough to get right, as others have found. However, Rapido have now demonstrated how to drive two way different diameter wheels in order to make the NRM commissioned Stirling single into a reliable performer. So there's a proven path to decent traction, make it functionally equivalent to an 0-6-0T which typically are very effective haulers, by means of internal gearing to drive the '2'. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Wickham Green said: E2 ? ...... they'd sell zillions of them - if they painted them blue an' put a silly face on the front. Seriously (?) the E2 was too small in number and not as 'cute' as the 'P' ............ the 'D1' is probably the best bet for someone to do - but what about the 'D3' ? - at least one lasted long enough to get 'BRITISH AIRWAYS' on its tanks ! It was an actual survey of what people would buy. Dibber would know more, but the winners were the Terrier and 16XX. They picked the E1 when they found out somebody else was making the Terrier. Buying models isn't about how cute they are. It's how useful and relevant they are. I reckon they sell more Class 37s and 47s than cute tank engines. Personally I reckon the E2 is one of the better looking LBSC locomotives. It doesn't have an antiquated look like it should have been scrapped fifty years ago. They were well travelled from the SE to Southampton and also lasted until the 1960s. I've still got one, but I would buy a modern version in BR black. I'll probably get the SEF kit eventually, but I really want the later version with extended tanks. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Right Away Posted March 25, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Wickham Green said: E2 ? ...... they'd sell zillions of them - if they painted them blue an' put a silly face on the front. Seriously (?) the E2 was too small in number and not as 'cute' as the 'P' ............ the 'D1' is probably the best bet for someone to do - but what about the 'D3' ? - at least one lasted long enough to get 'BRITISH AIRWAYS' on its tanks ! Indeed, I have a photograph dated December '52 of Eastbourne (BR Database shows her allocated to St Leonards at this time) D3 No 32385 in unlined black with early crest; not certain if any lasted long enough to receive lining. Very smart looking result if they did. Edited March 25, 2019 by Right Away Super glue on fingertips. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 On 25/03/2019 at 12:35, Wickham Green said: E2 ? ...... they'd sell zillions of them - if they painted them blue an' put a silly face on the front. Seriously (?) the E2 was too small in number and not as 'cute' as the 'P' ............ the 'D1' is probably the best bet for someone to do - but what about the 'D3' ? - at least one lasted long enough to get 'BRITISH AIRWAYS' on its tanks ! Rapido have just done Toby to modern day standards, what is to stop them from doing Thomas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 On 25/03/2019 at 11:29, GreenGiraffe22 said: Very much looking forward to the E1! Would 100% buy a D1. And while it's a Marsh, an I3 would be useful to me, seen a few photographs of them on the route I base my layout on I know 00 Works did one but that's long gone? and manufacturers can be unpredictable... Definitely need more pre grouping Southern stock for sure! There are ex LSWR(?) 3 sets that appear in photos on the above route quite a lot. A likely choice from Hornby perhaps? They like a bit of LSWR... *Photos should all be links to where I found them* FWIW OO works did the I3 as an RTR model (to kit standards) a few years back. I have one and it is such a lovely different beast to have on the layout: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Granted a lovely different beast but also historically significant, which appeals to me. Its performance opened a few eyes to the benefits of superheating. I suppose it would be a good idea to set up a 00 Works fund for when something of equal interest appears, instead of having money levered out of me by Dapol, Hornby and Accurascale. (Bachmann, it seems, is desperately searching for the wallet opener at the moment.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 8 hours ago, JSpencer said: Rapido have just done Toby to modern day standards, what is to stop them from doing Thomas? Whatever happened to Sammy the Shunter ? ( Off topic - hopefully ! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9402 Fredrick Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 8 hours ago, JSpencer said: Rapido have just done Toby to modern day standards, what is to stop them from doing Thomas? Cause in real life the E2s were not that great, plus unlike the J70s, the Billington E2s were not able to be used for anything more than shunting at Southampton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, 9402 Fredrick said: Cause in real life the E2s were not that great, plus unlike the J70s, the Billington E2s were not able to be used for anything more than shunting at Southampton. Apart from spending most of their lives in the giant marshalling yards, as station pilots and on trip work in South London.... http://www.semgonline.com/steam/e2_class.html It was only when they were replaced by the Bulleid Class 12 diesel shunters that they were moved away. If they were so rubbish how come they outlived nearly all the other SR locomotives? The problem is the Southern didn't have any standard class of medium sized shunting locomotive and most of them were tiny classes of a handful of examples*. The E2 is probably the most typical of them. It looks much more like a shunter than most of the other alternatives. The only other one would be a G6 or possibly an R1. So if you want a model of a SR shunter make an E2 or a G6. R1s had far too many differences to be viable. *Tiny when you consider the GWR had 863 57XXs (nearly 2000 0-6-0Ts overall) and the LMS had 422 3Fs. People really should stop taking TTTE as fact. Nearly PMSL with the idea that the J70 was more useful. A tiny 0F against a modern 3F. I think I know which is more useful.... Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Carne Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 As a student of model railway history, I recall the 1975 Hornby Railways catalogue cover, which illustrated a variety of locos, all of which were either produced or considered for production by Hornby, and one was Gladstone. So we have come closer in the past than most folks realise! Great shame it never happened. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 At the time we elected to do the 'E1', I did put forward the idea of doing the 'E1/R' as well. My interest was because, in BR days, they ran on the North Cornwall line (Torrington-Halwill) and also banked at Exeter. However, it was quickly realised that a complete separate suite of tools would be needed and accordingly it is not viable. (CJL) 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 12 hours ago, dibber25 said: At the time we elected to do the 'E1', I did put forward the idea of doing the 'E1/R' as well. My interest was because, in BR days, they ran on the North Cornwall line (Torrington-Halwill) and also banked at Exeter. However, it was quickly realised that a complete separate suite of tools would be needed and accordingly it is not viable. (CJL) With that reminder I'd be tempted to ask how the E1 is getting on ............ but, of course, it's been banished from rmweb - and this is a Hornby thread, anyway ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 20 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: ...People really should stop taking TTTE as fact. Nearly PMSL with the idea that the J70 was more useful. A tiny 0F against a modern 3F. I think I know which is more useful... Context is all. For pulling large trainloads of agricultural produce out of the late medieval period, that little tram engine was very useful. 1 hour ago, Wickham Green said: ... I'd be tempted to ask how the E1 is getting on ............ but, of course, it's been banished from rmweb ... Hint: Rapido. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 The Model Rail 'E1' is covered in the Rapido thread but there isn't anything to add at present. (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, dibber25 said: The Model Rail 'E1' is covered in the Rapido thread but there isn't anything to add at present. (CJL) Thank you ..... I hadn't realised that the Model Rail thread had survived and migrated to Rapido after we were instructed to go away and check on "Model Rail's Facebook page or the Model Rail website for future updates" ............... ......... anyway, what were we talking about ? .... possibly a D1, or ........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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