Engines on the GW&GC Joint?

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

The GC line went through a number of changes of locos. I believe both Met and GW/GC lines were used for GC expresses.

From opening the loads were light so there was a short era of Politt 4-2-2's and 4-4-0s until the GC Atlantics came on the scene. They were numerically the mainstay of GC services until WW2 but first the Director and improved Directors usurped them on the best turns and then the Lord Farindons appeared post WW1 and were rapidly puroined by the East Coast line in LNER days. The LNER only had about 8 modern express locos to begin, 5 NER A2 pacifics and 3 GNR A1 pacifics and barely 20 by 1924. The 6 Faringdons were the next best modern locos the LNER had.   They came back to the GC around 1927 with more A1 pacifics in service and the rebuilt Gresley / Ivatt Atlantics with new piston valve cylinders and almost certainly brand new large superheater fitted boilers which out performed the Faringdons on the level if not up hill.

From 1927 until the B17 Footballers came around the mid 30s  Faringdons  Atlantics and Directors held sway and even when the B17s came it seems Faringdons were preferred for the hardest turns including the heavy overnight Manchester train which at one time was one of the fastest trains in the country.    WW2  saw the  effective end of the GC locos as lower speed limits mean thy could no longer rush the banks and had to bring in V2 and A1 / A3 to time the trains. All the GC 4-6-0s and 4-4-2s had gone by 1950.  I believe the large wheeled 4-6-0s rather than their smaller wheeled cousins were common on the London extension while the 5'8" wheeled locos were more normally found north of Leicester   The GC 4-6-0s were quite standardised as regards boilers etc but Robinson couldn't quite decide how big the wheels should be or how many cylinders or whether they should be inside or outside or both so some classes had two or three members.   Effectively no two were alike.   Bit like Black fives or class 47s really.

The early 50 were possibly the golden age of the GW/GC line as "Fying Scotsman" and GW Kings, possibly KGV himself could be found on consecutive trains.   I am not sure where the GW and GC diverged but 100 mph was achieved at Princes Risborough and at Denham by GW Stars and Castles so this was a pretty fast bit of line.

The  junction was at Ashendon Jcn,  just short of 4 miles north of Haddenham.  It was a flying junction and the relative importance of the lines changed over the years with the route route to/from the GC direction originally being the principal route but by the late 1950s things had changed and the route towards the Bicester cut-off had become the principal route in the Down direction (at which time the speed to/from the GC line was 50mph.  The Up GWR Bicester cut-off Line passed on a flyover above the double track route going round towards the GC and speed on it was limited to 60 mph.

 

The GC end was a lot simpler with Grendon Underwood being an ordinary double line junction although the route to Akeman Street and thence Ashendon Jcn was classified as the 'Main Line' while the route via Aylesbury was the 'Branch'.  The route was closed in September 1966.  A single line stub remained as a long siding between Grendon Underwood and Akeman St where there was a fertiliser depot (and is the only bit of the link I have travelled over as we ran an Inspection Special along it in 1993).

 

T

[tigerburnie]

This might be of use to you

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Great_Central_Railway

 

as may this

http://www.railwayarchive.org.uk/map/osIndex.php

[1165Valour]

Here's the short list I drew up for what locos were there in the 1918-22 period:

GWR:

Stars

3100 2-6-2Ts

 

GCR:

Directors/Improved Directors

Lord Faringdons

9Q (several were at Neasden, so I'm guessing they would have worked around here)

9N

[1165Valour]

On 13/04/2019 at 06:44, GWRSwindon said:

Here's the short list I drew up for what locos were there in the 1918-22 period:

GWR:

Stars

3100 2-6-2Ts

 

GCR:

Directors/Improved Directors

Lord Faringdons

9Q (several were at Neasden, so I'm guessing they would have worked around here)

9N

I'd been hoping there would be a way to throw in the Saints (were any running in their Atlantic form in the post-WWI era?), as well as the 4-4-0s such as the Cities and Bulldogs. Did any of the 2800s use this line?

[Siberian Snooper]

I believe the 4-4-0 counties were used on the route.

 

 

[1165Valour]

18 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I believe the 4-4-0 counties were used on the route.

 

 

Ah, thanks! I do like the Churchward Counties, they look built for fast running!

[Western Star]

On 01/05/2019 at 07:34, Siberian Snooper said:

I believe the 4-4-0 counties were used on the route.

Yes, there is a photograph of a County 4-4-0, with a set of Dreadnought coaches, on an up service at West Ruislip; this photograph can be found in "Edwardian Enterprise" (Lewis et al, Wild Swan).  This book has a chpater on the New Line and there are some photos which show trains/engines.

 

On 30/04/2019 at 20:29, GWRSwindon said:

I'd been hoping there would be a way to throw in the Saints...

I have a postcard (somewhere) of a 4-6-0 Saint on a down service at West Ruislip, probably pre-WW1).  An issue of "Railway Archive" (Lightmoor Press) includes a photo of a down service at Haddenham with a Saint, might be an Atlantic, might be a 4-6-0.

[Western Star]

My core interest in the GW & GC Jt is from October 1910 until the end of 1914...  a gap in my knowledge of the line is the motive power used for local services between (say) High Wycombe and Princes Risborough.

 

For example:- what GWR engines took the pick-up goods along the line?  did the GWR 850 0-6-0STs ever work the Oxford-Maidenhead goods?

 

Any details relating to this period are of interest.

 

regards, Graham

Edited June 14, 2019 by Western Star

[Jim Martin]

1 hour ago, Western Star said:

My core interest in the GW & GC Jt is from October 1910 until the end of 1914...  a gap in my knowledge of the line is the motive power used for local services between (say) High Wycombe and Princes Risborough.

 

For example:- what GWR engines took the pick-up goods along the line?  did the GWR 850 0-6-0STs ever work the Oxford-Maidenhead goods?

 

Any details relating to this period are of interest.

 

regards, Graham

 

Didn't the Robinson 4-4-2Ts handle these services before the arrival of the 4-6-2Ts? Certainly they were allocated to Neasden when new.

 

Jim

[Western Star]

14 minutes ago, Jim Martin said:

 

Didn't the Robinson 4-4-2Ts handle these services before the arrival of the 4-6-2Ts? Certainly they were allocated to Neasden when new.

 

Jim

I think that you are correct.   This was a joint line so I am interested in the GW motive power as well as the GCR locos.