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Bravo.  Another pre-Grouping layout thread is always very welcome indeed.  Not least when there's some modelling going on.

 

Looks a darnsight more skillful and professional than CA already, so something to look forward to!

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Another Great Central (or constituents thereof) layout?  Excellent.  That makes what?- three, four of us now?  I'm looking forward to seeing this progress!

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An interesting prototype. North Wales is a sadly neglected area. Another thread to watch.

Jonathan

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Is the bridge under the main line the infamous one that the WM &CQ locos were too tall to pass under?

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Posted (edited)

811651014_WMCQR080STno6GCR400BLNER400BC.jpg.5ab10a194b772c553a8a996b0556f08d.jpgWas this one that couldn't pass under?

 

Edited by phil_sutters
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Posted (edited)

Dave, the bridge is very low, but the locos were made especially short. Phil, as in your photo (1922) No6 couldn't get under the bridge, but it has had its dome and chimney increased in size by the GCR. No6 and No8 did turns on the Buckley when No1 and No2 were unavailable. I haven't worked out how they ran the docks, but since both No6 and No8 were specially made low I'm assuming it was to allow them to get down to the quay. As an example of a specially low WM&CQR loco here is Sharp Stewart built No8 as running in WMCQR guise. Again the GCR raised all the boiler fittings and the cab when they got hold of it and the second photo shows it in that guise. No8 is quite high up my build list.

no8_e.jpg

no8_b.JPG

Edited by webbcompound
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Great to see another pre-grouping project under way, and as others have said, a very unusual prototype. I shall watch with interest.

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Very exciting; good luck finding info on WM&CQ goods stock though. Hobby horse droppings are plentiful in comparison.

 

I always thought the former Buckley Railway was an absolutely ideal prototype for anyone who likes obscure bye-ways.

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There are at least some pointers to liveries in Nigel Digby's first liveries volume.

Two possibly stupid questions;

How is the loco an 0-6-2 when it has all its coupling rods?

How did the GCR service the docks if it rebuilt the locos to be too high to go under the bridge?

Possibly more useful, I have just found a source of GCR wagon transfers - the HMRS has none. They came from Quainton Road Models. There is a website but it does not take orders. However, when I sent a cheque the response was very fast.

Jonathan

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1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

How is the loco an 0-6-2 when it has all its coupling rods?

If you read the caption to the photograph I read it as saying that it had been an 0-6-2st and then had been converted to an 0-8-0st.

 

Jim

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Ah, if you assume that the second line is a new sentence it makes sense - just no capital letter.

Jonathan

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11 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

If you read the caption to the photograph I read it as saying that it had been an 0-6-2st and then had been converted to an 0-8-0st.

 

Jim

 Even with punctuation this loco had a long and complex history. It started as an 0-6-0 tender engine built in 1846 by Sharp for the Manchester and Birmingham (their No.30, later LNWR No.430, then No.1222). In 1870 the LNWR rebuilt it as an 0-6-0ST, (became No.1029). Bought by the WM&CQR in 1872  and renamed "Queen". Rebuilt in 1880 as an 0-8-0ST. Rebuilt in 1890 as 0-6-2ST. Demolished in an accident after running out of control into the exchange sidings at Connah's Quay LNWR station.  Rebuilt in 1897 as 0-6-2ST. Rebuilt 1903 as 0-8-0ST. Became GCR No.400 in 1905, then No.400B in 1907. Although it passed into LNER ownership in 1923 it did not receive a number and was scrapped in October of that year.

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A bit like grandad's axe then, - three new handles and two new heads and it's still the same axe.

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7 hours ago, webbcompound said:

 Even with punctuation this loco had a long and complex history. It started as an 0-6-0 tender engine built in 1846 by Sharp for the Manchester and Birmingham (their No.30, later LNWR No.430, then No.1222). In 1870 the LNWR rebuilt it as an 0-6-0ST, (became No.1029). Bought by the WM&CQR in 1872  and renamed "Queen". Rebuilt in 1880 as an 0-8-0ST. Rebuilt in 1890 as 0-6-2ST. Demolished in an accident after running out of control into the exchange sidings at Connah's Quay LNWR station.  Rebuilt in 1897 as 0-6-2ST. Rebuilt 1903 as 0-8-0ST. Became GCR No.400 in 1905, then No.400B in 1907. Although it passed into LNER ownership in 1923 it did not receive a number and was scrapped in October of that year.

Thank you for clarifying and adding to my rather badly punctuated caption.

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20 minutes ago, Annie said:

A bit like grandad's axe then, - three new handles and two new heads and it's still the same axe.

Or Trigger's brush from 'Only Fools and Horses'!

 

Jim

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On 26/03/2019 at 18:08, Caley Jim said:

Or Trigger's brush from 'Only Fools and Horses'!

 

Jim

 

You mean like this?

 

965_-_caption.jpg.84774883a59289e7026eedafa8362d65.jpg

 

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Just found this thread by accident!

 

i used to work down dock road in connahs quay for my stepdad who owned ‘c.c.crump and co’ the railway wagon builders who were based in dentith sidings next to the quay

 

when railway traffic dried up back in about 1996 we lifted the track, looking back we should have kept some of the stuff we scrapped, there were all sorts of things like GCR weighted points levers and throws we just binned!

 

one thing I did keep though, and it’s still in my dads garage is a WM&CQR bullhead rail chair 

 

On 25/03/2019 at 21:18, corneliuslundie said:

 

How did the GCR service the docks if it rebuilt the locos to be too high to go under the bridge?

 

 

Would they have been able to access the docks from the chord that used to come off the wrexham-Dee marsh line that ran or was that a later addition?

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Posted (edited)

WM&CQR chair! Nice.

 

The chord from the main line to the Quay was authorised in 1883, and the contract let in 1891. The 1900 working timetable shows a 1.15pm mineral train leaving Brymbo North Junction, picking up at Frwyd Junction and Lay Hall and arriving a Connahs Quay Docks via the chord at 4.35pm. A goods train leaves Connah's Quay Docks via the chord at 5.00pm, arriving at Wrexham at 7.29pm with the specification that it is to work traffic for the Cambrian.

 

There were six trains in, and six trains out of Connahs Quay Docks on the Buckley line, with the 4.10pm specified to put off traffic for Birkenhead at Buckley Junction at 5.45pm, and the 4.30pm to put off traffic for the CLC system also at Buckley Junction when required at 6.00pm. A mineral train for the Wirral picked up at Buckley Junction at 7.35pm, and a goods and mineral at 11.55pm

 

There was also a link in from the LNWR by the chemical works/timber yard/wagon repair works, but it doesn't seem to have been much used.

Edited by webbcompound
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Interesting. What might have been the Cambrian traffic carried to Wrexham?

Jonathan

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Lovely project. An area and railway full of interest and it will create a model railway that will be different. That is a big plus for me!

 

There is at least one model of the loco pictured above. The story is that after the GCR took over, they moved it away to leafy Buckinghamshire for other duties.

 

Not the finest of fnescale models but a bit historical in its own right. Built from a photograph in "Dow" many years ago by the Rev. peter Denny. It has a wooden chassis block with brass frames bolted to it and old 3 rail metal wheels, with the axles cut and put into plastic tubes to open it up to EM gauge. I have restored the paint finish and filled a big hole in on one side tank. 

 

072A.JPG.4f0069075922bcf5ddeaa4d67edba1f9.JPG

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There is also a book about connahs quay docks too

 

im going to see my stepdad this weekend and I know he has a copy so I’ll find out some info on it 

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Posted (edited)

Yes I have the Buckley Album. Other sources I am using are:

Boyd on the WM&CQR and the Buckley

Connolly on the Victorian brickyards of Flintshire and Denbighshire

Pritchard: The Making of Buckley and District

plus Dow on the GCR

and the resources of the Archives at Hawarden which has some of the source material for the above publications, plus other photos (in particular of  the inn) and documents, and the (very big) GCR survey map

plus of course several site visits to look at what is left of the embankment and quay stonework.

There are still several buildings that I have very little evidence on (they appear right at the back of other photos giving tantalising and contradictory information about roof lines0 so I would be interested to track down a copy of the book on the docks mentioned by big jim if he can provide details.

 

The Cambrian traffic no doubt included empties returning after delivery of stuff (coal?) to the Quay, but also possibly incoming pit props.

Edited by webbcompound
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