Nm9 RhB modules and standards

[Mike Beard]

Thank you for that. Yes, the station track plan is out of date but it has dimensions and giving the lengths quoted above I'm sure something can be organised. Seemingly following Brexit the most difficult bit will be persuading shops to deduct the VAT equivalent at their end so we don't end up paying VAT twice. Thankfully Peco still live in Beer, an ambition I failed to realise on any level! .

[JimFin]

Spent some time in the workshop this morning to produce a timber purchase / cutting list for a couple of projects, would like to suggest an amendment to one of the Nm end templates.

 

The steeply sloping template leaves very little space (30mm)  at the front edge for a baseboard stringer and I think if a simple 20mm strip were added to the bottom edge, a classic 2" X 1" could be better accommodated. everything else stays the same for connectivity etc.

 

Views / comments appreciated.

 

Addition in red and indicative position for stringers as below - 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by JimFin

[PaulRhB]

21 minutes ago, JimFin said:

Spent some time in the workshop this morning to produce a timber purchase / cutting list for a couple of projects, would like to suggest an amendment to one of the Nm end templates.

 

The steeply sloping template leaves very little space (30mm)  at the front edge for a baseboard stringer and I think if a simple 20mm strip were added to the bottom edge, a classic 2" X 1" could be better accommodated. everything else stays the same for connectivity etc.

 

Views / comments appreciated.

 

Addition in red and indicative position for stringers as below - 

 

I think it would also help to move all the bolt and two clamp holes down too if we do that for more finger room above them  

[JimFin]

3 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I think it would also help to move all the bolt and two clamp holes down too if we do that for more finger room above them  

That would mean adding the 20mm strip to each of the other profiles to keep alignment.

[PaulRhB]

7 minutes ago, JimFin said:

That would mean adding the 20mm strip to each of the other profiles to keep alignment.

Yes but I think it will be better to have them so they sit flat on a table at the same height as it leaves the option of resting the ends on a low crate or similar? Anyone else see any flaws in either suggestion?  

[jonhall]

56 minutes ago, JimFin said:

Spent some time in the workshop this morning to produce a timber purchase / cutting list for a couple of projects, would like to suggest an amendment to one of the Nm end templates.

 

The steeply sloping template leaves very little space (30mm)  at the front edge for a baseboard stringer and I think if a simple 20mm strip were added to the bottom edge, a classic 2" X 1" could be better accommodated. everything else stays the same for connectivity etc.

 

Views / comments appreciated.

 

Addition in red and indicative position for stringers as below - 

 

 

It definitely needs some meat at the front edge, I felt 30mm was adequate, and would prefer to keep it to a minimum, but I guess modules with a different construction can always dip below in the center, as long as the ends match.

 

Jon

[backofanenvelope]

Yes it doesn’t matter as long as ends meet. I follow Paul’s idea about sitting flat as I plan to use at least one in the way.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, jonhall said:

 

It definitely needs some meat at the front edge, I felt 30mm was adequate, and would prefer to keep it to a minimum, but I guess modules with a different construction can always dip below in the center, as long as the ends match.

 

Jon

Ok much like we’ve already talked about losing that top front bolt hole on this profile we could do away with both holes and move the stringer inside a bit, as the yellow rectangle, or keep the bolt hole and move it further in, the blue rectangle, with just a cosmetic hardboard fascia?

 

We’d still have four possible bolt locations for a couple of bolts, the ones under the track being the most important. 

[backofanenvelope]

41 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Ok much like we’ve already talked about losing that top front bolt hole on this profile we could do away with both holes and move the stringer inside a bit, as the yellow rectangle, or keep the bolt hole and move it further in, the blue rectangle, with just a cosmetic hardboard fascia?

 

I like the idea of moving the stringer in and having the hardboard fascia as this allow for more fluid transformations between modules.

 

With the stringer moved back to the blue position, would three holes be enough to keep the pressure between the boards, i.e like

    o

o     o

[PaulRhB]

I suspect two bolts will be perfectly adequate and the two square holes are actually provided as an alternative to using bolts if you want to use a single clamp each end like we do for Freemo. The idea is the modules are freestanding on their own legs and the fixings only keep them in line, they shouldn’t be taking much load unless the layout gets swiped  

 

[backofanenvelope]

Ok understood. Just thought that any movement of modules on legs would have potential for derailments whilst crossing joints.

[PaulRhB]

19 minutes ago, backofanenvelope said:

Ok understood. Just thought that any movement of modules on legs would have potential for derailments whilst crossing joints.

No we’ve had no problems with the 50x50ft HO setups or the 10x20ish with 009 modules and you need a heavy knock to push them out. The most common problem on show layouts is the piggybacking and someone leans on it pushing it down one side or ends that are too thin that deform. That’s why I use 9mm ply and would suggest it for this too for produced batches although 6mm is fine it does rely more on support from the board too. 9mm is very strong over these short distances and with the clamp cutouts the weight is going to be similar to a flat 6mm plate.  

Edited February 8, 2021 by PaulRhB

[backofanenvelope]

33 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

No we’ve had no problems with the 50x50ft HO setups or the 10x20ish with 009 modules and you need a heavy knock to push them out. The most common problem on show layouts is the piggybacking and someone leans on it pushing it down one side or ends that are too thin that deform.

 
That’s good to know. I had planned to use 9mm before the modular idea came about. I just need to get another jigsaw now since my last one packed up.

[JimFin]

All sounds good - stick with the profile as was but delete the front bolt hole to give space for a stringer.

 

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

That’s why I use 9mm ply and would suggest it for this too for produced batches

 

Is a group purchase of an initial order the best way forward or to find a supplier who will do them to order for folk individually? 

[PaulRhB]

6 minutes ago, JimFin said:

 

Is a group purchase of an initial order the best way forward or to find a supplier who will do them to order for folk individually? 

I order my two other profiles in batches of 12+ from Grainge & Hodder so I guess 12 of each would be the minimum again. I’d not want to hold big stocks so probably best to order a bunch to cover small requests and for anyone wanting a bigger batch to go direct like I’ve arranged with G&H for the Freem009 ones. Ordering a bunch of 24 slightly smaller Freem009 ones cost £46 for the last lot so probably slightly more for these due to more material costs. 
It’s probably worth seeing what people want and putting an order together from that and then distributing them from one although it doubles post it’s probably easier than having to order 6 pairs of three style each

 

So if we lose the front hole and keep the original proposal size?

 

What do people think about the flat slopes on the profiles, should we introduce a little waviness to it to look a bit more natural?

 

[backofanenvelope]

Paul at the moment I would want 4 flat ends and 2 of the profiles as I am planning 2 station modules but I realise we will need plenty of country mods to space stations and curves also. I am happy to cover my postage if a single order goes in. Am I right in thinking that once H&S have artwork it would be possible for individuals to order those endplates albeit in bulk or would they need to be ordered by you who owns IP, it just the quantity people would want I guess.

[jonhall]

i'd keep the lower holes, they don't seem to do any harm.

 

whats the file format? i can cut my own.

 

jon

[PaulRhB]

17 minutes ago, backofanenvelope said:

Paul at the moment I would want 4 flat ends and 2 of the profiles as I am planning 2 station modules but I realise we will need plenty of country mods to space stations and curves also. I am happy to cover my postage if a single order goes in. Am I right in thinking that once H&S have artwork it would be possible for individuals to order those endplates albeit in bulk or would they need to be ordered by you who owns IP, it just the quantity people would want I guess.

Oh I just give Allen permission to produce for anyone it’s free of ip I don’t want a business, all they ask is minimum of 12 of each design at a time. 

[PaulRhB]

6 minutes ago, jonhall said:

i'd keep the lower holes, they don't seem to do any harm.

 

True

 

6 minutes ago, jonhall said:

 

whats the file format? i can cut my own.

Jim’s is the only official drawing so far apart from the multi line one I did in WORD  Jon what formats could you draw it up in to the three designs? Also could you add a bit of a more natural variation to the slopes on those two profiles? Then I’ll ask what formats G&H want as it would make sense to create it in one they can cut too if we can. 

[backofanenvelope]

 

19 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Oh I just give Allen permission to produce for anyone it’s free of ip I don’t want a business, all they ask is minimum of 12 of each design at a time. 

 

Ok understood, well I'll wait till the dust has settled.

 

I meant to add I think a bit of a curve would be better as that helps with contouring scenery to it,

[jonhall]

21 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

 

True

 

Jim’s is the only official drawing so far apart from the multi line one I did in WORD  Jon what formats could you draw it up in to the three designs? Also could you add a bit of a more natural variation to the slopes on those two profiles? Then I’ll ask what formats G&H want as it would make sense to create it in one they can cut too if we can. 

 

I can do an AutoCAD2000 DWG or DXF which they should be able to use. I'm not sure quite how natural variations would work with modules, I suspect a large radius might look marginally better than flat.

 

Jon

[PaulRhB]

6 minutes ago, jonhall said:

 

I can do an AutoCAD2000 DWG or DXF which they should be able to use. I'm not sure quite how natural variations would work with modules, I suspect a large radius might look marginally better than flat.

 

Jon

On both my profiles I provided a drawing with straight lines and Allen just rounded off the corners. 
 

I’ll ask what he uses as it would make sense to have a common file if we can do your homemade versions match easily. 
 

[jonhall]

I  would choose a 'known' contour detail.

Jon

[PaulRhB]

12 minutes ago, jonhall said:

I  would choose a 'known' contour detail.

Jon

Can you elaborate on that, do you mean an actual profile?

I was only thinking to break up the straight line by a common drawing to follow whether commercial or home cut  

[jonhall]

15 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Can you elaborate on that, do you mean an actual profile?

I was only thinking to break up the straight line by a common drawing to follow whether commercial or home cut  

 

I think there is a risk that if Grainge and Hodder put on a random curve, then at some point we can't replicate that with a different supplier, (or even G&H if something went wrong and the file was lost). I think it would be better to specify 'something known'  so that we can replicate it if required - or send it to another cutter (perhaps in Europe? ) 

 

Jon