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Nm9 RhB modules and standards


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Should we simplify ‘the standard’ to just the 50mm trackbed and bolt holes with a range of profiles to self cut or get from you? 
 

E5460804-A5A2-4E6A-833A-A6214FFC0980.jpeg.1b2bbf371f0dc8d5815c2f2986048c27.jpeg


I was thinking limit of three just for offering ends from a commercial source having a limited number of styles to keep costs down to a minimum so three would offer choice that would also easily blend to whatever profile. I don’t have space to stock 15+ types :lol:

Freemo and my own 009 one haven’t struggled with one profile but I do think RhB needs at least three :) 

 

So my current thinking is possibly we offer three set ones via me later and custom ones via Jon, or self arranged. 
 

Jon if you can email me the files for 2, 5 &11 I’ll ask for a quote to get some figures for comparison. 

 

02E6F58F-ED8B-4E35-80DA-BD8F930E538A.jpeg.97c3f02e441239b2ecefdb52cb25236e.jpeg

 

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Thanks for your work on this - let me know costs for ends as I'd still like to give it a go at some point.

I see the logic in starting with 3 easily available ones as that gives you a decent chance of being able to join with other people's modules without every module end needing a darkbox.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Jon

I’ll pass it to Allen and see what we get. 
I’ll go for these to start with. 

A-G

C-E

D-D

 

83A0017F-8B10-4208-BBE6-927C8BDFE3CC.jpeg.0e41ed991d73e5f59e13488825ab4d73.jpeg

Edited by PaulRhB
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On 02/05/2021 at 19:10, jonhall said:

 

     

image.png.20c87a7af0e87bd5ec7120b1c3e80f39.png

Jon, 

What is the slot in the ballast profile for? I’m just wondering if it will be a weak point fixing the track down there and could be moved down?

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I've used it as a socket for the trackbed to sit in. if you were not using laser cut trackbed it wouldn't be required (although I think still useful).

 

It also occurred that we might want the board profile code engraved on the end A-G and we might want a centreline engraved as well.

 

Jon

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2 minutes ago, jonhall said:

I've used it as a socket for the trackbed to sit in. if you were not using laser cut trackbed it wouldn't be required (although I think still useful).

OK that makes good sense so it’s 6mm high? Easy to plug if not using it too. 

 

2 minutes ago, jonhall said:

 

It also occurred that we might want the board profile code engraved on the end A-G and we might want a centreline engraved as well.

Both sound good, can you specify that in the drawing for laser cutting? 

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Its (from memory) 6mm, but if I had more CAD skills I'd put it as a 'parameter' so that they could enter the actual thickness of the sheet and it would be adjusted.

 

I can add the engraves (I was also thinking to add the profile letter to be engraved on the end, but that would need more layers or some editing between file, and maybe even your logo) but that won't be this week as I'm a bit tied up.

 

Jon

 

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On 02/05/2021 at 19:44, PaulRhB said:

I’ll go for these to start with. 

A-G

C-E

D-D

 


Thinking about the future, can we use these to give an easy description of end profiles for layout planners and builders beyond timber ordering?

IE - an AG end should ideally mate with a GA end*. CE to EC and so on.

If we keep the nomenclature consistent as "Left""Right" as you look at the module end from outside then you'd know an AG is an upward slope left to right and a GA is a downward left to right.

AG/GA matters less IMHO in terms of cutting timber as you'd use the same for both and flip the wood over to reverse it, but being confident of which side of the track the high ground is on a finished module you've never seen before will be a pretty important part in planning.

(*Or a box....)

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I think Martyn and Paul you both have much more experience of modular setups, I still 'think' about the 'front' and 'back' of a layout, but I recognise that they can be reversed (or double sided) in a modular system. My OCD would tend to view low-to-high as Front-to-back, and therefore tend to want to use A-G not G-A to describe the profile... 

 

Jon

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33 minutes ago, jonhall said:

My OCD would tend to view low-to-high as Front-to-back, and therefore tend to want to use A-G not G-A to describe the profile... 


Depends which way round the profile is used, which would be a different configuration each end?
 

1 hour ago, Glorious NSE said:

.....then you'd know an AG is an upward slope left to right and a GA is a downward left to right.

 

If you intend to keep the same terrain angle (average) through the module you will need to use the profile the opposite way round at the other end of the module.

If you didn't the high ground would be at the "front" on one end of the module and the "back" on the other end of the same module.  (Not an issue if that's what you want, but probably not what most modules will need.)


So if you were viewing from a "front of layout" perspective with a high back and opposite ends (as if all ends were AG then you would never match another module end to it!) then the left hand would be GA and the right hand AG.

1227510144_GAAG.jpg.72d51abb983003f9ce9b62dc9fcf1c4b.jpg

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I think adding the nomenclature reversing might confuse some so I thing the simplest way would be to do a simple form where people include the diagram of the module with the profile included each end. 
Something like this?


60394F8F-60BC-4A03-BD5F-2C5C80C3F6E9.jpeg.9881ddad2f3abe987d573dd6f8cfd989.jpeg

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, jonhall said:

Its (from memory) 6mm, but if I had more CAD skills I'd put it as a 'parameter' so that they could enter the actual thickness of the sheet and it would be adjusted.

I think 6mm is a good option as standard. 

 

Quote

 

I can add the engraves (I was also thinking to add the profile letter to be engraved on the end, but that would need more layers or some editing between file, and maybe even your logo) but that won't be this week as I'm a bit tied up.

 

Jon

 

No worry, Allen is going to do some test cuts and get back to me and I can mark them up. Not worried about logos ;) 

Thanks for the work on these :) 

Edited by PaulRhB
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1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

I think adding the nomenclature reversing might confuse some so I thing the simplest way would be to do a simple form where people include the diagram of the module with the profile included each end. 
Something like this?


60394F8F-60BC-4A03-BD5F-2C5C80C3F6E9.jpeg.9881ddad2f3abe987d573dd6f8cfd989.jpeg


Hmmm, unsure.

How convinced am I that the person who sent me this knew they were meant to flip the end pictograms depending on what way round they used each bit of wood?

Did they really build a module with high ground both sides, or is that just them copying in the stock pictogram and not understanding how to use it?

Surely no harder (but maybe more reliable?) to document 5 images with their different codes corresponding to the 5 possible end configurations they give, and get them to give you the codes for the ones they use?

Either way, for layout planning you'd need to convert to something like this anyhow:

GA-EC.jpg.6c92a73276c7f8f8d25dae3461eafd27.jpg

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3 hours ago, Glorious NSE said:

Either way, for layout planning you'd need to convert to something like this anyhow:

GA-EC.jpg.6c92a73276c7f8f8d25dae3461eafd27.jpg

I think that as a diagram will work the best. 

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Good to see this progressing and I am following with interest. I am wondering how typically the end profiles connect to the ends whilst still allowing access at each ends for the bolting together. I am suspecting some sort of ply box rather than a ply/MDf board on 2x1"? I am new to the modular concept so apologies if this is a stupid question! If this was the route then I was thinking a pair of end profiles at each end spaced a nominal 6" / 150mm for hand access to create a clear void to do up bolts and for electrical connections. This could work with the profiles all joined up with a ply facia front and back with a flat deck provided between the two middle profiles for scenic work.

 

The other question which follows is how legs could be attached which would in my case be ideally removable? Possibly they could slot into the void created also?

 

I was thinking a module was not for me, however an idea has popped into my head and I cant shake it off now! :unsure:

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Posted (edited)
On 11/05/2021 at 11:20, the Goblin said:

Good to see this progressing and I am following with interest. I am wondering how typically the end profiles connect to the ends whilst still allowing access at each ends for the bolting together. I am suspecting some sort of ply box rather than a ply/MDf board on 2x1"?

 

I pretty much build conventional baseboards with the profile as an end piece. You could use a ply box, as many commercial laser cut ones or you can build a 2x1 frame with risers off it for the trackbed. I’ll draw up some examples later. 
The idea of the two square cut outs is to allow a G clamp to be used if you so wish, or 6mm bolts in the 8mm cut holes, as the joints are only clamped up for alignment not bearing vertical load as the module standard requires them to be free standing. 
Here’s a couple of photos of the 009 modules joined with a clamp, we’ve just improved the options on the RhB module ends to give a deeper end for the scenery. 
FF8B8E13-C3B5-4825-8C3B-D12B66042459.jpeg.99c4ce16eff3a91cf0f6fffbf02d3a9a.jpeg

 

E30A4338-35D0-45F9-990E-A0089E2B97F6.jpeg.b21b848c3cd991f4e7473809eeac3d7e.jpeg

 

 

Quote

 

The other question which follows is how legs could be attached which would in my case be ideally removable? Possibly they could slot into the void created also?

 

The main thing to consider is we added a variable height option to the standard although I’m tempted to suggest a nominal average height to start from as a minimum requirement. 
I’ve used legs bolted into the frame as above with 45° braces from aluminium strip. 
On the HO plenty use 2x2 legs that just slot into a socket underneath. 

 

Then there are integral legs,
5C8B360D-F927-493A-849E-1474CA27D341.jpeg.cdf96f5c4cbbc16da47210d289a88180.jpeg

 

Legs that fold up from flat plates with hinges so they fold flat for transport and storage 

BC7A9957-3B43-483F-9AB6-A3E85158C07E.jpeg.0850ae57818a077749ceea22abad13ca.jpeg
 

or triangular legs that fold out in a similar way,

A8FBC4BD-A67B-4F21-B2D9-5F582C49E061.jpeg.dcaa2b79688d7572026c691a66206c42.jpeg

 

Quote

 

I was thinking a module was not for me, however an idea has popped into my head and I cant shake it off now! :unsure:

;) 
 

and this one shows the jump leads between boards. 

7B3E9E91-B4FA-4917-BD29-7F313021EF5C.jpeg

Edited by PaulRhB
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Ok here’s how I would deal with the module ends. 
 

With the flat one you can just have a plain sheet of ply / mdf with a frame of your choice beneath. The top will brace the frame and keep it rigid. 
 

With the ‘field slope’ you could do the same on the rear half of the board with that bracing the frame even with a cutout for a river etc. 
 

With the ‘mountain slope’ I’d just brace the frame with offcuts of ply in at least four corners to stop the frame twisting. 
The fascia can brace the top corners or if using hardboard you can add an additional strip wood strengthening piece. 
 

5D90A7CD-D07C-4A98-99A9-D5AD0EAAA2AC.jpeg.e3bc0de65caf75d727ac2787a6a8335d.jpeg

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I have been giving this some thought and I keep coming back to; if there was a forth end profile could this be a tunnel? My first two imaginary modules involved a bridge between two tunnels.

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There sort of is, as you can still build a "black box" to sit between mismatched module ends, build something with one of them both ends and that's essentially your module - I think there was an example up-thread?

Alternatively, model both ends of the tunnels? (Better flow of layout if you do that?)

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9 minutes ago, Glorious NSE said:

Alternatively, model both ends of the tunnels? 

 

Thanks Martyn. Both ends of the tunnel was my fall back idea but would mean most of the module would be under a tunnel! Food for thought.

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A module with blank ends would be useful as a break between mismatches so yes all types are useful. You could just add a square end above the flat profile to achieve it and paint the outside ends in a flat colour or even have a backscene on the outer ends? 

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