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Bachmann 009 Quarry Hunslet

Phil Parker

By Phil Parker,
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brianthesnail96

brianthesnail96

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My Dad used to drive "Alan George" on the Teifi Valley (before I came along and spoilt his fun- although it was still a regular feature of my childhood holidays!). Now I'm pretty disappointed that Bachmann aren't doing one in mid green with a very stylish airbrake pump tacked on the side of the smokebox, but I suppose given they've tooled a very accurate looking close relative in Nesta I can't really grumble too loudly. 

 

I shall certainly be buying one for him; it's just a question of whether I can resist buying one for me too! 

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rhydddu

rhydddu

Posted
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Thought I'd share on here some research I have done about the prototypes that could be modelled using the announced models... would be very useful to know which Bachmann have planned before repainting a bunch of models!

 

Dinorwic Alice class

• Alice, (Bala Lake, no dome), red. RTR

• Britomart (Ffestiniog). Blue. Cabbed RTR

• Dorothea - (Launceston). Green lined. Cabbed RTR

• King of the Scarlets (no dome). Statfold Barn. Unlined red.

• Elidir (renamed from Red Damsel and cab added) (Llanberis Lake) red lined yellow.

• Rough Pup unlined red (Tywyn NG museum), no dome.

• Cloister (statfold, no dome). Red.

• George B (Bala Lake). Originally called Wellington. Recently restored, no dome. Red.

• Holy War (Bala Lake, cabbed (cabless pre preservation), no dome). Blue (2 different shades) recently and has been red.

• Maid Marian (Bala Lake, no dome). Red. Now cabbed red with dome.

• Irish Mail (West Lancs but rebuilt with cab, no dome). Red.

• Velinheli (Launceston/Ffestiniog, dome). Red.

• Sybil (Brecon Mountain, but now Richmond Light railway) red. Cabbed

• Una (Gilfach Ddu slate museum). Lined Green like Dorothea. Also has been maroon. Cabbed

• Thomas Bach blue with cab, no dome (Llanberis Lake) – was originally Wild Aster blue & cabless

 

Penrhyn Small quarry class

• Nesta (Rob Gambrill - repatriated recently). No cab. Lined black blue/red. RTR

• Margaret (Vale of Rheidol), recently restored. Lined black with yellow/thin red.

• Alan George (Teifi Valley) black with simple yellow lining. Once ran with cab, but no more.

 

Penrhyn large quarry class. 10 inches longer, longer wheelbase, domed. Ignore length in 4mm scale/009?

• Hugh Napier (National Trust c/o Ffestiniog). Same livery as Margaret black lined yellow.

• Sybil Mary (Statfold). Penrhyn black with blue/red lining.

• Bill Harvey ex George Sholto (Bressingham). Has had cab also none. Mid green lined red.

• Edward Sholto (Beamish, stored). Once called Bill Harvey. Penrhyn lined blue/red.

 

Later Port Dinorwic type - domed and with straight footplate, but higher boiler centreline.

• Lady Joan (ex No.1) - Bredgar and Wormshill. cabbed. Red lined white.

• Dolbadarn. Llanberis Lake. cabbed. Light green lined red/yellow. Has been yellow and red.

• Michael (Statfold), cabbed. Red unlined.

• Jack Lane (Statfold) new build - domed. design of Dinorwic Port class. Green lined yellow.

• Statfold (Statfold) new build - cabbed, domed. Dinorwic Port class design. Red unlined.

 

The following are much harder and are ignored…

• Elin (Richmond Light Railway. Similar to nesta but with an unusual taller boiler (being rebuilt?) no cab.

• Sextus/Lady Madcap (WHHR). domed. no cab. Broken up. No colour yet. Stepped footplate!

• Dame Ann (Alabama) new build - built by exmoor for Launceston to an updated design. Cab in particular is different.

• Bernstein/Jonathan - was at West Lancs. Unusual lime green. Deeper buffer beam than alice.

• Covertcoat - Launceston. Cabbed and tender added. Scarlet red. Deeper buffer beam than alice class.

• Gertrude (Statfold, sectioned LOL!)

• and 3 in the larger Penrhyn Port class (have unusual nameplates too) - stepped footplate, domed, longer.

o Gwynedd (Bressingham). black lined complex white.

o Lilian (Launceston). Black lined Penrhyn blue/red – also with tender!

o Winifred (Bala Lake). Black lined Penrhyn blue/red. 

Edited by rhydddu
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Quarryscapes

Quarryscapes

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 05/10/2021 at 20:25, rhydddu said:

Thought I'd share on here some research I have done about the prototypes that could be modelled using the announced models... would be very useful to know which Bachmann have planned before repainting a bunch of models!

 

Dinorwic Alice class

• Alice, (Bala Lake, no dome), red. RTR

• Britomart (Ffestiniog). Blue. Cabbed RTR

• Dorothea - (Launceston). Green lined. Cabbed RTR

• King of the Scarlets (no dome). Statfold Barn. Unlined red.

• Elidir (renamed from Red Damsel and cab added) (Llanberis Lake) red lined yellow.

• Rough Pup unlined red (Tywyn NG museum), no dome.

• Cloister (statfold, no dome). Red.

• George B (Bala Lake). Originally called Wellington. Recently restored, no dome. Red.

• Holy War (Bala Lake, cabbed (cabless pre preservation), no dome). Blue (2 different shades) recently and has been red.

• Maid Marian (Bala Lake, no dome). Red. Now cabbed red with dome.

• Irish Mail (West Lancs but rebuilt with cab, no dome). Red.

• Velinheli (Launceston/Ffestiniog, dome). Red.

• Sybil (Brecon Mountain, but now Richmond Light railway) red. Cabbed

• Una (Gilfach Ddu slate museum). Lined Green like Dorothea. Also has been maroon. Cabbed

• Thomas Bach blue with cab, no dome (Llanberis Lake) – was originally Wild Aster blue & cabless

 

Penrhyn Small quarry class

• Nesta (Rob Gambrill - repatriated recently). No cab. Lined black blue/red. RTR

• Margaret (Vale of Rheidol), recently restored. Lined black with yellow/thin red.

• Alan George (Teifi Valley) black with simple yellow lining. Once ran with cab, but no more.

 

Penrhyn large quarry class. 10 inches longer, longer wheelbase, domed. Ignore length in 4mm scale/009?

• Hugh Napier (National Trust c/o Ffestiniog). Same livery as Margaret black lined yellow.

• Sybil Mary (Statfold). Penrhyn black with blue/red lining.

• Bill Harvey ex George Sholto (Bressingham). Has had cab also none. Mid green lined red.

• Edward Sholto (Beamish, stored). Once called Bill Harvey. Penrhyn lined blue/red.

 

Later Port Dinorwic type - domed and with straight footplate, but higher boiler centreline.

• Lady Joan (ex No.1) - Bredgar and Wormshill. cabbed. Red lined white.

• Dolbadarn. Llanberis Lake. cabbed. Light green lined red/yellow. Has been yellow and red.

• Michael (Statfold), cabbed. Red unlined.

• Jack Lane (Statfold) new build - domed. design of Dinorwic Port class. Green lined yellow.

• Statfold (Statfold) new build - cabbed, domed. Dinorwic Port class design. Red unlined.

 

The following are much harder and are ignored…

• Elin (Richmond Light Railway. Similar to nesta but with an unusual taller boiler (being rebuilt?) no cab.

• Sextus/Lady Madcap (WHHR). domed. no cab. Broken up. No colour yet. Stepped footplate!

• Dame Ann (Alabama) new build - built by exmoor for Launceston to an updated design. Cab in particular is different.

• Bernstein/Jonathan - was at West Lancs. Unusual lime green. Deeper buffer beam than alice.

• Covertcoat - Launceston. Cabbed and tender added. Scarlet red. Deeper buffer beam than alice class.

• Gertrude (Statfold, sectioned LOL!)

• and 3 in the larger Penrhyn Port class (have unusual nameplates too) - stepped footplate, domed, longer.

o Gwynedd (Bressingham). black lined complex white.

o Lilian (Launceston). Black lined Penrhyn blue/red – also with tender!

o Winifred (Bala Lake). Black lined Penrhyn blue/red. 

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but these are somewhat incorrect.

 

With a repaint Alice can only represent:


Alice

Holy War

George B

King of the Scarlets (post 128ish)

 

Change the cab sheets and you can add Wild Aster and Irish Mail

 

Add a dome and change the cab sheets you can have Maid Marian as built. 

 

Change the frame profile and  you can have

 

Rough Pup

Enid as built

Cloister as built

King of the Scarlets (as built)

Maid Marian C. 50s/60s)

 

Add a crosshead feed pump and change the frame profile and you can have Velinheli as built

 

To get a current condition Velinheli you need to change frame profile, change cab sheets, add a dome.

To Get Red Damsel you need to change frame profile and add tank mounted injectors/delete the backhead ones.

To get Cloister you need to change frame profile, modify the tank (no handrails, different filler) and reverse the steam turret. 

 

To get the original Port locos (Covertcoat & Bernstein) you'd need to change the frame profile and buffer beams. 

 

The Penrhyn small class are all fine with just new names

 

The Penyrorsedd Cabbed ones are all fine with just new names and paint, and can also represent Irish Mail with a cab, as well as Holy War as running (also needs side buffers).

 

None of the Penrhyn Port or Large class can be modelled, nor can the Dinorwig later Port type or tramway type, or Lady Madcap. 

 

I'm also ignoring other detail differences such as buffer beams, buffers, pipe runs, sandboxes and other small details in this. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Quarryscapes
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brianthesnail96

brianthesnail96

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On 24/08/2021 at 18:54, AMJ said:

@brianthesnail96I'm sure knowing Bachmann that if you wait long enough your preferred loco will be in the range.

 

I was being thoroughly tongue in cheek, as Quarryscapes has highlighted there's no two the same (and they evolved over time too)- it's be preposterous for them to tool for all possibilities but someone usually expects them too. 

 

My particular "want", especially with the ugly air pump on the smokebox, is particularly obscure! Alan George's current (or at least, most recent running) state is pretty close to Nesta as modelled though. 

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peach james

peach james

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Just to confuse things further, be aware that the identity of the locos is NOT as above in reality- the frames, boilers and nameplates of at least 2 are NOT matched...so you literally get to choose the name to go with the frame.

How do I know?  KoS was Maid Marion's frames, and KoS's boiler & nameplate for 40 years.  I am suspicious that more than just that pair are mis-identified.  I understand(*) that the locos were basically "put back together" when they were sold, depending on what would kind of fit together in terms of boiler/running gear at the time. 

(*) that's what dad said, particularly regards to the engines that went to Bala Lake.  He'd have been in the know(ish) from working with the Lloyd Jones Brothers and Mick the Scrap at the time the engines were leaving the quarry to homes elsewhere.  I know dad was slightly involved in F&D RPS, as well as the group that wanted Bala Lake to be standard gauge, and that he and Grandfather Powell certainly had connections into the North Wales steam scene from 1959 on.  

James Powell

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rhydddu

rhydddu

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Posted (edited)

@Quarryscapes I think ‘somewhat incorrect’ is a bit extreme as the majority of your points (Other classes) are indeed covered in my original post. I did miss the filler on Cloister - good point.
 

The ones that aren’t mentioned in my list are frame profile, which I had assumed the RTR model should be able to be altered to something close enough (particularly as it’s hard to see anyway) and minor detail differences such as injectors and cross head pumps.

 

The one which has me head scratching at the moment is the point about cab sheets. What is the main difference between Alice and Maid Marian/Irish mail? 
 

thanks Colin 

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Quarryscapes

Quarryscapes

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, rhydddu said:

@Quarryscapes I think ‘somewhat incorrect’ is a bit extreme as the majority of your points (Other classes) are indeed covered in my original post. I did miss the filler on Cloister - good point.
 

The ones that aren’t mentioned in my list are frame profile, which I had assumed the RTR model should be able to be altered to something close enough (particularly as it’s hard to see anyway) and minor detail differences such as injectors and cross head pumps.

 

The one which has me head scratching at the moment is the point about cab sheets. What is the main difference between Alice and Maid Marian/Irish mail? 
 

thanks Colin 

 

Somewhat incorrect is hardly an extreme statement, it's as mild as it gets. 

I am writing an article on the subject at the moment for NG&IRM. 1903+ locos have taller cab sheets, the front waist panels finish behind the saddle tank. Irish Mail having had a cab has differences again. 

 

On 20/10/2021 at 16:58, peach james said:

Just to confuse things further, be aware that the identity of the locos is NOT as above in reality- the frames, boilers and nameplates of at least 2 are NOT matched...so you literally get to choose the name to go with the frame.

How do I know?  KoS was Maid Marion's frames, and KoS's boiler & nameplate for 40 years.  I am suspicious that more than just that pair are mis-identified.  I understand(*) that the locos were basically "put back together" when they were sold, depending on what would kind of fit together in terms of boiler/running gear at the time. 

(*) that's what dad said, particularly regards to the engines that went to Bala Lake.  He'd have been in the know(ish) from working with the Lloyd Jones Brothers and Mick the Scrap at the time the engines were leaving the quarry to homes elsewhere.  I know dad was slightly involved in F&D RPS, as well as the group that wanted Bala Lake to be standard gauge, and that he and Grandfather Powell certainly had connections into the North Wales steam scene from 1959 on.  

James Powell

 

After 1952:

 

King of the Scarlets = Maid Marian bottom half, KOTS top half

Maid Marian = King of the Scarlets Bottom Half, Velinheli 

Velinheli = Velinheli bottom half, Maid Marian top half. 

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CotBob

CotBob

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5 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

And the arrival date next year according to the update. 

Well that is a disappointment and no mistake.  I had hoped, against all reason, with the painted samples out already that the wait would not be so long. 😞

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5Dublo2

5Dublo2

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17 minutes ago, Markn said:

Has there been any insight into which 6 pin decoders will fit into these yet? Wondering if the normal Bachmann will fit or if its just the more expensive (and slightly smaller) micro ones they do.


Bachmann's website recommends the more expensive one (36-571). 
May have to wait for someone to receive a model and take a look before we know if something else will fit.

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Roy Langridge

Roy Langridge

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10 minutes ago, 5Dublo2 said:


Bachmann's website recommends the more expensive one (36-571). 
May have to wait for someone to receive a model and take a look before we know if something else will fit.

Looking around retailers last night I noticed at least one was quoting the micro version, just can;t remember which.

 

Roy

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